THE URGENCY OF CHANGE - 'PASSION'/《转变的紧迫性》之“热情”
THE URGENCY OF CHANGE - 'PASSION'《转变的紧迫性》之“热情”
Questioner: What is passion? You've talked about it and apparently you give it a special meaning. I don't think I know that meaning. Like every man I have sexual passion and passions for superficial things like fast driving or cultivating a beautiful garden. Most of us indulge in some form of passionate activity. Talk about his special passion and you see a man's eyes sparkle. We know the word passion comes from the Greek word for suffering, but the feeling I get when you use this word is not one of suffering but rather of some driving quality like that of the wind which comes roaring out of the west, chasing the clouds and the rubbish before it. I'd like to possess that passion. How does one come by it? What is it passionate about? What is the passion you mean?
发问者：热情是什么？这点你曾谈到过，显然你赋予了它一个特别的含义。我想我不知道那含义是什么。就像所有人一样，我有对性的热情，也有对开快车或者打理漂亮的花园之类肤浅事情的热情。我们多数人都沉溺于某种形式的激情行为中。一个人在谈论他特定的爱好时，你能看到他的眼睛在发光。我们知道热情这个词来自希腊语里的痛苦这个词，但是你用这个词的时候，我感觉到的不是痛苦，而是某种像风一样的驱动力，这风从西方呼啸而来，追赶着它前面的层云和垃圾。我想拥有这热情。一个人要怎样拥有它？它对什么热情洋溢？你说的热情是什么意思？
Krishnamurti: I think we should be clear that lust and passion are two different things. Lust is sustained by thought, driven by thought, it grows and gathers substance in thought until it explodes - sexually, or, if it is the lust for power, in its own violent forms of fulfilment. Passion is something entirely different; it is not the product of thought nor the remembrance of a past event; it is not driven by any motive of fulfilment; it is not sorrow either.
克：我想我们应该清楚贪欲和热情是不同的两件事情。贪欲由思想维系，被思想驱使，它在思想中滋长和积聚，直到爆发——从性方面爆发，或者如果那是对权力的贪欲，就会有它自己去实现的暴力方式。热情是截然不同的东西；它不是思想的产物，也不是对过去事件的回忆；它不受任何成功动机的驱使；它也不是悲伤。
Questioner: Is all sexual passion lust? Sexual response is not always the result of thought; it may be contact as when you suddenly meet somebody whose loveliness overpowers you.
发问者：所有的性激情都是贪欲吗？性反应不总是思想的产物；当你突然遇到一个可爱得征服了你的人，就可能会发生这样的关系。
Krishnamurti: Wherever thought builds up the image of pleasure it must inevitably be lust and not the freedom of passion. If pleasure is the main drive then it is lust. When sexual feeling is born out of pleasure it is lust. If it is born out of love it is not lust, even though great delight may then be present. Here we must be clear and find out for ourselves whether love excludes pleasure and enjoyment. When you see a cloud and delight in its vastness and the light on it, there is of course pleasure, but there is a great deal more than pleasure. We are not condemning this at all. If you keep returning to the cloud in thought, or in fact, for a stimulation, then you are indulging in an imaginative flight of fancy, and obviously here pleasure and thought are the incentives operating. When you first looked at that cloud and saw its beauty there was no such incentive of pleasure operating. The beauty in sex is the absence of the "me", the ego, but the thought of sex is the affirmation of this ego, and that is pleasure. This ego is all the time either seeking pleasure or avoiding pain, wanting fulfilment and thereby inviting frustration. In all this the feeling of passion is sustained and pursued by thought, and therefore it is no longer passion but pleasure. The hope, the pursuit, of remembered passion is pleasure.
克：无论思想在哪里建立起快感的形象，那都必然是贪欲，而不是自由的热情。如果快感是主要驱动力，那么它就是贪欲。如果性感觉诞生于快感，那它就是贪欲。如果是诞生于爱，那就不是贪欲，即使当中可能有巨大的快乐。这点我们必须清楚，必须自己去发现爱是否排除了快感和享受。当你看到一片云，欣赏它的广阔和其上的光芒时，其中确实有一种快乐，但是还有比快乐多得多的东西。我们根本不是在贬低快感。如果你不断地为了得到某种刺激从思想里回想那片云，或者回去看那片云，那么你就是沉溺在异想天开的幻想中，很显然，快感和思想是在这里运作着的诱因。当你初次看到那片云，看到它的美，那时候是没有快感的动机运作的。性中的美是“我”，自我的缺席，但是关于性的想法却在加强这个自我，而这就是快感。这个自我始终在寻求快乐或者避免痛苦，想要成就，因而招致挫败。在这一切中，热情的感觉是被思想维系和追逐的，所以就不再是热情了，而是快感。对记忆中的热情的企望、追求是快感。
Questioner: What is passion itself, then?
发问者：那么热情本身是什么呢？
Krishnamurti: It has to do with joy and ecstasy, which is not pleasure. In pleasure there is always a subtle form of effort - a seeing, striving, demanding, struggling to keep it, to get it, In passion there is no demand and therefore no struggle. In passion there is not the slightest shadow of fulfilment, therefore there can be neither frustration nor pain, Passion is the freedom from the "me", which is the centre of all fulfilment and pain. Passion does not demand because it is, and I am not speaking of something static. Passion is the austerity of self-abnegation in which the "you" and the "me" is not; therefore passion is the essence of life. It is this that moves and lives. But when thought brings in all the problems of having and holding, then passion ceases. Without passion creation is not possible.
克：它必然与喜悦和至乐同在，而这些不是快感。在快感中总是有一种形式微妙的努力——一个看到、想要、追求、努力保持它、获得它的过程。在热情中，没有欲望，因而没有努力。在热情中，没有一丝的成就感，所以既不会有挫折也不会有痛苦。热情是从“我”中解脱出来，而“我”正是所有满足和痛苦的中心。热情没有欲望，因为它是...我不是在说某种静态的东西。热情是自我否定的简朴，其中没有了“你”和“我”；所以热情是生命的精髓。是这些在运动在生活。但是当思想带来了获得和占有的所有问题时，热情就停止了。没有热情，就不可能有创造。
Questioner: What do you mean by creation?
Krishnamurti: Freedom.
Questioner: What freedom?
发问者：你说的创造是什么意思？
克：自由。
发问者：什么自由？
Krishnamurti: Freedom from the "me" which depends on environment and is the product of environment - the me which is put together by society and thought. This freedom is clarity, the light that is not lit from the past. Passion is only the present.
克：从“我”中解脱的自由，“我”依赖于环境，是环境的产物——这个我是由社会和思想造就的。这自由就是清晰，是不从过去点亮的光。热情只有现在。
Questioner: This has fired me with a strange new feeling.
Krishnamurti: That is the passion of learning.
发问者：这用一种奇异的新感觉点燃了我。
克：这就是学习的热情。
Questioner: What particular action in my daily living will ensure that this passion is burning and operating?
Krishnamurti: Nothing will ensure it except the attention of learning, which is action, which is now. In this there is the beauty of passion, which is the total abandonment of the "me" and its time.
发问者：在我的日常生活中，需要怎样的特定行动来确保这种热情持续燃烧和运作？
克：没什么能保证这点，除了全神贯注的学习，也就是行动，也就是现在。其中就有热情的美，也就是对“我”及其时间的彻底抛弃。
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