THE URGENCY OF CHANGE - 'THE INDIVIDUAL AND THE COMMUNITY'/《转变的紧迫性》之“个人与团体”
THE URGENCY OF CHANGE - 'THE INDIVIDUAL AND THE COMMUNITY'《转变的紧迫性》之“个人与团体”
Questioner: I don't quite know how to ask this question but I have a strong feeling that relationship between the individual and the community, these two opposing entities, has been a long history of mischief. The history of the world, of thought, of civilization, is, after all, the history of the relationship between these two opposing entities. In all societies the individual is more or less suppressed; he must conform and fit into the pattern which the theorists have determined. The individual is always trying to break out of these patterns, and continuous battle between the two is the result. Religions talk about the individual soul as something separate from the collective soul. They emphasize the individual. In modern society - which has become so mechanical, standardized and collectively active - the individual is trying to identify himself, enquiring what he is, asserting himself. All struggle leads nowhere. My question is, what is wrong with all this?
发问者：我不太知道该怎么问你这个问题，但是我有种强烈的感觉，个人和团体这两个对立实体之间的关系，是一部漫长的苦难史。毕竟，世界的、思想的、文化的历史，都是这两个对立实体之间的关系史。在所有社会中，个人都或多或少地被压制；他必须服从并符合理论家们定好的模式。个人总想打破这些模式，结果就是这两者之间的不停斗争。宗教说个人的灵魂是与集体灵魂分开的东西。他们强调个人。在现代社会中——这个社会已经变得如此机械化、标准化，行动划一——个人想要确认和探索他自己是什么，维护自己。所有的斗争都毫无意义。我的问题是，这一切到底出了什么问题？
Krishnamurti: The only thing that really matters is that there be an action of goodness, love and intelligence in living. Is goodness individual or collective, is love personal or impersonal, is intelligence yours, mine or somebody else's? If it is yours or mine then it is not intelligence, or love, or goodness. If goodness is an affair of the individual or of the collective, according to one's particular preference or decision, then it is no longer goodness. Goodness is not in the backyard of the individual nor in the open field of the collective; goodness flowers only in freedom from both. When there is this goodness, love and intelligence, then action is not in terms of the individual or the collective. Lacking goodness, we divide the world into the individual and the collective, and further divide the collective into innumerable groups according to religion, nationality and class. Having created these divisions we try to bridge them by forming new groups which are again divided from other groups. We see that every great religion supposedly exists to bring about the brotherhood of man and, in actual fact, prevents it. We always try to reform that which is already corrupt. We don't eradicate corruption fundamentally but simply rearrange it.
克：唯一真正重要的事情是生活中有良善、爱和智慧的行动。善是个人的或者集体的吗，爱是个人的或者非个人的吗，智慧是你的，我的或者别人的吗？如果它是你的或者我的，那么它就不是智慧，爱或者善。如果善是个人的或者集体的事情，基于一个人特定的偏好或者决定，那么它就不再是善。善不在个人的后院里，也不在集体的开阔土地上；善只有在从两者解脱出来的自由中才能绽放。有这种良善、爱和智慧的地方，行动就不再是个人的或者集体的。因为缺乏善，我们把世界划分成了个人的和集体的，并根据宗教、国家和阶级进一步把集体划分为不计其数的组织。制造了这些分别，我们又想通过成立新的组织在其间架起桥梁，而这些组织又是与其他组织相分离的。我们看到所有大型宗教的存在本应带来人类大同，但是事实上，却成为了世界大同的障碍。我们总是试图改革已经腐败的东西。我们不去根除腐败，而只是草草进行一下重组。
Questioner: Are you saying that we need not waste time in these endless bargainings between the individual and the collective, or try to prove that they are different or that they are similar? Are you saying that only goodness, love and intelligence are the issue, and that these lie beyond the individual or the collective?
Krishnamurti: Yes.
发问者：你是说我们不需要在个人和集体之间这些无止境的讨价还价中浪费时间了，也不要试图去证明他们是不同或者相似的了？你是说只有良善，爱和智慧才是问题所在，而这些问题超越了个人或者集体？
克：是的。
Questioner: So the real question seems to be how love, goodness and intelligence can act in daily living.
Krishnamurti: If these act, then the question of the individual and the collective is academic.
Questioner: How are they to act?
发问者：所以真正的问题似乎是爱、良善和智慧要如何在日常生活中运作。
克：如果它们运作，那么个人和集体的问题就是不切实际的了。
发问者：它们要如何运作？
Krishnamurti: They can act only in relationship: all existence is in relationship. So the first thing is to become aware of one's relationship to everything and everybody, and to see how in this relationship the "me" is born and acts. This "me" that is both the collective and the individual; it is the "me" that separates; it is the "me" that acts collectively or individually, the "me" that creates heaven and hell. To be aware of this is to understand it. And the understanding of it is the ending of it. The ending of it is goodness, love and intelligence.
克：它们只能在关系中运作：所有存在都在关系中。所以首要的事情就是要觉察到一个人与所有人和事的关系，看到这关系中“我”是如何产生和运作的。这个“我”既是集体的也是个人的；是“我”在分裂；是“我”在集体地或者个体地行动着，这个“我”制造了天堂和地狱。觉察这些就是去了解“我”。而了解了“我”就终结了它。“我”的终结就是良善，爱和智慧。
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