THE URGENCY OF CHANGE - 'ENDING THOUGHT'/《转变的紧迫性》之“终结思想”
THE URGENCY OF CHANGE - 'ENDING THOUGHT'《转变的紧迫性》之“终结思想”
Questioner: I wonder what you really mean by ending thought. I talked to a friend about it and he said it is some kind of oriental nonsense. To him thought is the highest form of intelligence and action, the very salt of life, indispensable. It has created civilization, and all relationship is based on it. All of us accept this, from the greatest thinker to the humblest labourer. When we don't think we sleep, vegetate or daydream; we are vacant, dull and unproductive, whereas when we are awake we are thinking, doing, living, quarrelling: these are the only two states we know. You say, be beyond both - beyond thought and vacant inactivity. What do you mean by this?
发问者：我想知道你说的终结思想究竟是什么意思。我跟一个朋友谈过这点，他说这是东方的某种无稽之谈。对他来说，思想是最高形式的智慧和行为，是生命的精华所在，是不可或缺的。思想创造了文明，所有的关系也基于思想。我们所有人，从最伟大的思想家到最卑微的劳动者，都接受这点。我们不思考的时候会睡去，如同行尸走肉或者做白日梦；我们会茫然，迟钝和没有建设性，而我们醒着的时候，我们思考，做事，生活，争吵：这是我们唯一知道的两个状态。你说，这两者都要超越——超越思想和空洞的不活跃状态。你这么说是什么意思？
Krishnamurti: Very simply put, thought is the response of memory, the past. The past is an infinity or a second ago. When thought acts it is this past which is acting as memory, as experience, as knowledge, as opportunity. All will is desire based on this past and directed towards pleasure or the avoidance of pain. When thought is functioning it is the past, therefore there is no new living at all; it is the past living in the present, modifying itself and the present. So there is nothing new in life that way, and when something new is to be found there must be the absence of the past, the mind must not be cluttered up with thought, fear, pleasure, and everything else. Only when the mind is uncluttered can the new come into being, and for this reason we say that thought must be still, operating only when it has to - objectively, efficiently. All continuity is thought; when there is continuity there is nothing new. Do you see how important this is? It's really a question of life itself. Either you live in the past, or you live totally differently: that is the whole point.
克：简单地说，思想是记忆和过去的反应。过去是无限久远或者一秒钟以前。当思想运作时，是这过去在作为记忆，作为经验，作为知识，作为机会在运作。所有的意愿都是基于这过去的欲望，导向快乐或者避免痛苦。当思想在运作，那就是过去，因而根本没有新生活；是过去活在了现在，调整着自己和现在。所以那样生活中就没有新鲜的东西，若要找到新鲜的东西，过去必须缺席，头脑必须不被思想、恐惧、快感及其他东西所充塞。只有当头脑不被充塞的时候，崭新的东西才能出现，因此，我们说思想必须安静，只在必要的时候才运作——客观地，有效地运作。所有的延续性都是思想；有延续性就没有崭新的东西。你看到这点多么重要了吗？这实在是关乎生命本身的一个问题。要么你活在过去里，要么你截然不同地生活：这就是整个重点。
Questioner: I think I do see what you mean, but how in the world is one to end this thought? When I listen to the blackbird there is thought telling me instantly it is the blackbird; when I walk down the street thought tells me I am walking down the street and tells me all I recognise and see; when I play with the notion of not thinking it is again thought that plays this game. All meaning and understanding and communication are thought. Even when I am not communicating with someone else I am doing so with myself. When I am awake, I think, when I am asleep I think. The whole structure of my being is thought. Its roots lie far deeper than I know. All I think and do and all I am is thought, thought creating pleasure and pain, appetites, longings, resolutions, conclusions, hopes, fears and questions. Thought commits murder and thought forgives. So how can one go beyond it? Isn't it thought again which seeks to go beyond it?
发问者：我想我确实明白了你的意思，但是在这个世界上一个人要怎样结束这思想？当我听到黑鹂的叫声时，思想马上告诉我这是黑鹂；当我走过街道时，思想告诉我我在走过街道，并且告诉我我认出和看到的一切；当我把玩着不要思考这个想法时，还是思想在玩这个游戏。所有的含义、了解和交流都是思想。即使在我不和别人交流的时候，我也在跟自己交流。醒着的时候我思考，睡着的时候也思考。我整个存在的结构就是思想。它的根源深藏在我所不知道的地方。我所想所做所是的一切都是思想，思想制造了快乐和痛苦、欲望、追求、决定、希望、恐惧和问题。思想谋杀，思想宽恕。那么一个人要怎样才能超越思想？难道不又是思想在寻求超越？
Krishnamurti: We both said, when thought is still, something new can be. We both saw that point clearly and to understand it clearly is the ending of thought.
Questioner: But that understanding is also thought.
Krishnamurti: Is it? You assume that it is thought, but is it, actually?
Questioner: It is a mental movement with meaning, a communication to oneself.
克：我们都说了，当思想安静时，新鲜的东西会出现。我们都清楚地看到了这点，而清晰地了解到这点就终结了思想。
发问者：但是这了解也是思想。
克：是吗？你认为那是思想，但它真的是吗？
发问者：那是带有某种含义的一个心理活动，一种跟自己的交流。
Krishnamurti: If it is a communication to oneself it is thought. But is understanding a mental movement with meaning?
Questioner: Yes it is.
克：如果是跟自己的交流，那就是思想。但是了解是带有某种含义的一个心理活动吗？
发问者：是的。
Krishnamurti: The meaning of the word and the understanding of that meaning is thought. That is necessary in life. There thought must function efficiently. It is a technological matter. But you are not asking that. You are asking how thought, which is the very movement of life as you know it, can come to an end. Can it only end when you die? That is really your question, isn't it?
Questioner: Yes.
克：词的含义和对那含义的理解是思想。这在生活中是必要的。思想必须在此时有效地运作。这是个技术上的问题。但是你问的不是这个。你问的是思想，也就是你所知的生命中的这种活动本身，能否结束。它只能在你死的时候结束吗？这才是你真正的问题，是不是？
发问者：是的。
Krishnamurti: That is the right question. Die! Die to the past, to tradition.
Questioner: But how?
克：这才是正确的问题。死去！对过去，对传统死去。
发问者：但是要怎么做到呢？
Krishnamurti: The brain is the source of thought. The brain is matter and thought is matter. Can the brain - with all its reactions and its immediate responses to every challenge and demand - can that brain be very still? It is not a question of ending thought, but of whether the brain can be completely still. Can it act with full capacity when necessary and otherwise be still? This stillness is not physical death. See what happens when the brain is completely still. See what happens.
克：大脑是思想的来源。大脑是物质，思想也是物质。大脑能不能——连同它对所有挑战和欲望的反应和即刻的回应——这大脑能不能非常安静？这不是个终结思想的问题，而是大脑能否彻底安静的问题。它能不能在必要的时候才全力以赴地行动，其他时候就保持安静？这寂静不是生理上的死亡。看看大脑完全安静的时候会发生什么。看看会发生什么。
Questioner: In that space there was a blackbird, the green tree, the blue sky, the man hammering next door, the sound of the wind in the trees and my own heartbeat, the total quietness of the body. That is all.
发问者：在那空间里，有一只黑鹂，有绿树，有蓝天，有在隔壁敲打着的男人，树间的风声和我自己的心跳声，身体完全的安静。就这些。
Krishnamurti: If there was recognition of the blackbird singing, then the brain was active, was interpreting. It was not still. This really demands tremendous alertness and discipline, the watching that brings its own discipline, not imposed or brought about by your unconscious desire to achieve a result or a pleasurable new experience. Therefore during the day thought must operate effectively, sanely, and also watch itself.
克：如果有对歌唱着的黑鹂的认知，那么大脑就在活动着，在诠释。它不是安静的。这真的需要巨大的警觉和纪律，观察带来它自身的纪律，不是思想强加的，也不是你无意中想要实现某个结果或者某个愉悦的新体验的欲望带来的。所以白天思想必须有效地、理性地运作，同时观察自己。
Questioner: That is easy, but what about going beyond it?
发问者：这很容易，但是要超越它呢？
Krishnamurti: Who is asking this question? Is it the desire to experience something new or is it the enquiry? If it is the enquiry, then you must enquire and investigate the whole business of thinking and be completely familiar with it, know all its tricks and subtleties. If you have done this you will know that the question of going beyond thought is an empty one. Going beyond thought is knowing what thought is.
克：谁在问这个问题？是想要体验新东西的欲望，还是探询本身？如果是探询，那么你必须探索和审视思想这整件事情，完全熟悉它，知道它所有的诡计和微妙之处。如果你做到了这点，你就会知道超越思想的问题是没有意义的。超越思想就是知道思想是什么。 看到您在卓越网上新书后的留言了，我今天买了本。 [b]回复 [url=http://www.j-krishnamurti.org.cn/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=1027&ptid=385]2#[/url] [i]李瑞[/i] [/b]
:)
《转变的紧迫性》刚刚翻完，印出来送你一本。 感谢！
其实我每一篇都看过了。:)
有准备出版吗？ [b]回复 [url=http://www.j-krishnamurti.org.cn/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=1041&ptid=385]4#[/url] [i]李瑞[/i] [/b]
还在跟基金会联系出版协议的事。不管怎么样，译文已经是大家的了。 不知道说什么好啦，只能表示感激之情。:D :)
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