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欲望的活动 讲话一 字幕

K: I see all my old friends are here!        克:我发现我所有的老朋友都来了!
If I may        请允许我
ask most politely and respectfully        以极大的礼貌和敬意,请求你
please don't make this into a festive occasion.        不要把这里变成一个欢庆场合。
It is not a pop festival        这不是一个大众的节日,
but rather we are a serious group        我们是一群认真的、
not inclined to frivolity        不流于轻浮的人,
but a rather earnest, serious group of people        是一群非常热切而真诚的人,
who will want, or desire        想要或渴望探询
to enquire into the whole complex problem of living.        这整个复杂的生活问题。
And if one may point out again        并且请允许再次指出,
there is no speaker here        这里没有演讲者,
though he is sitting on the platform        尽管他坐在台上,
but actually the speaker doesn't exist        但实际上那个演讲者并不存在,
because then you will be merely listening to the speaker        因为如果那样的话,你就只是在听那个人讲话,
and not actually investigating for yourself.        而没有真正地亲自去探索。
So please, if I may again suggest most earnestly        所以请允许我再次极其诚挚地建议,
that there is no speaker but we are together investigating        并不存在一个演讲者,而是我们一起去审视、
exploring, enquiring into something        探索、探询
which is life with all its complex and varied problems.        生命及其所有复杂多样的问题。
So we are sharing this thing together.        所以我们是在一起分享这件事情。
The speaker is not here.        这里没有演讲者。
And I want to make that quite clear.        我要非常清楚地明确这一点。
But rather together we are taking a journey into ourselves        我们要一起踏上一次深入我们内在的旅程,
and demanding the excellence of ourselves.        探究我们自身的卓越之处。
We are never challenged        我们从未在心理上
psychologically        被挑战过,
we may be challenged outwardly        我们也许被外界挑战过,
we may demand outwardly better materials        我们也许外在需要更好的物质条件、
better workmanship, better schools, better politics:        更好的同事关系、更好的学校、更好的政治:
the challenge is for the better outwardly, always.        挑战总是为了实现更好的外在。
But apparently very few of us enquire        而显然我们只有极少数人
and challenge ourselves with the highest form        从心理层面上以最高形式的智力和道德行为,
of both intellectual, ethical, moral action, psychologically.        去探究和挑战我们自己。
And if we may, we are going to go into this question together        如果可以,我们一起深入这个问题,
that we are challenging ourselves deeply        也就是深深地挑战我们自己,
demanding the highest form of intellectual and        探索最高形式的智力以及
I would not like to use the word 'emotional'        ——我不想用“情感”这个词,
because that tends to become sentimental        因为那容易变得多愁善感,
but rather the highest form of affection        我宁愿用——最高形式的热爱,
the highest form of love.        最高形式的爱。
And why is it that human beings        还有,为什么人类
who have lived for millennia upon millennia        已经存在了数百万年,
are living the way we are doing now        却仍然以我们目前的方式生存——
confused, unhappy, miserable, uncertain        困惑、不幸、痛苦、不确定,
and outwardly in the world, as one observes        并且外面的世界,就像我们观察到的那样,
things are getting worse and worse and worse.        情况正变得越来越糟。
The more you produce, the more we are using        你生产的越多,对地球资源
the things of the earth, we are destroying the earth.        的消耗就越多,我们正在毁灭地球。
And inwardly, spiritually if I may use that word        而在内心、在精神上,如果我可以用这个词的话,
we have lost all sense of religious excellence.        我们已经丢掉了所有卓越的宗教品质。
I am using the word 'religious' in the sense        我用“宗教”这个词所指的含义,
of not belief, not dogma, not rituals        不是信仰、不是教条、不是仪式,
not the varied form of hierarchical, theological assertions        不是各种形式的等级化的、神学的主张,
but the religious person is one who has no self at all.        而是指,宗教之人就是完全没有自我的人。
That seems to me the highest form of religious action        在我看来,那是最高形式的宗教行动,
where the 'me', the ego, the self, doesn't exist at all.        其中,那个“我”、自我、自己完全不存在。
And that is the highest form of intelligence        并且那是最高形式的、
and excellence ethically and in action.        行动中的智慧和道德上的卓越。
So we are going, if I may, into these problems.        如果可以,我们将一起深入这些问题。
So you are not listening to a speaker        所以你不是在聆听一个演讲者,
but rather listening to yourself        而是聆听自己内在的声音
and challenging yourself        并挑战自己,
not accepting anything but the highest form of clarity        不接受任何东西,除了最高形式的清明、
the highest form of behaviour        最高形式的行为,
and so excellence in action.        进而是行动中的卓越。
That is what we are going to go together into this question.        这就是我们在深入这个问题的过程中要做的。
So please you are listening to yourself        所以请聆听你自己,
you are listening not according to your particular like and dislike        你不是根据自己特定的好恶去听,
including those, but actually listening to what is going on        而是去真正地聆听正在发生的一切,
and demanding why we live as we do now in this appalling        并探究为什么我们现在的生活方式是
frightening, destructive way we are living.        如此可怕、令人胆战心惊,又充满了破坏性。
Right?        对吗?
I think that is the most serious question we have to ask of ourselves.        我认为这是我们必须要问自己的最为严肃的问题。
When outwardly everything is disintegrating        当外界的一切都在分崩离析,
there is no question about it        ——这是毫无疑问的——
terrorism, which is the ultimate form of war        恐怖主义,这种战争的终极形式,
there are the terrorists, divided nations        恐怖主义者,四分五裂的国家,
all that is going on in the world        这一切正在世间上演,
400 billion dollars a year spent on armaments        全世界每年在武器上花费
the world all over.        四千亿美元。
So we are all crazy people.        所以我们大家都疯了。
And to allow all this, each one of us        而认识到这一切,我们每个人
must find out for oneself what is the right action        必须亲自去发现什么是正确的行动,
with regard to all these external events        为应对所有这些外界的事件,
what is one to do, which must be correct, accurate, true.        一个人要做的必须正确、准确、真实。
And that can only be found out for ourselves        并且,我们若要亲自发现这种行动,
if we are challenging our actions        我们就必须质询我们的行为、
our way of life, which is jobs, occupation        我们的生活方式,工作、职位、
relationship with each other        彼此的关系,
and the utter lack of clarity in thought        还有严重缺乏清晰性的思想、
the sloppiness of our thinking.        我们凌乱不堪的思维。
And to live a totally different kind of life        并且要过一种完全不同的生活,
not merely based on pleasure, on fear and so on.        不仅仅以快乐、恐惧等等为基础的生活。
So we are going together        所以我们将一同
to find, if we can        去发现,如果可以的话,
all the answers to these questions for ourselves.        亲自发现这些问题的全部答案。
If that is clear between you and the speaker        如果你和讲话者都明确了这一点,
and the speaker is not here        并且这里没有什么演讲者,
if it is very clear with what we are concerned with        如果我们关心的事情非常明确,
then we have established a certain kind of relationship with each other.        那么我们之间就建立了某种关系。
If we are all concerned the same thing        如果我们都关心同一件事情,
not with our particular opinions and judgements        而不是关心我们特定的意见或判断、
our intellectual theories        我们智识上的理论,
but rather be concerned together seriously        而是一起认真地关心
at least for today and for the few days while you are here        ——至少今天和你在这里的几天中——
concerned to find out a way of life        关心找到一种
that may bring a different world into being.        能够带来一个不同世界的生活方式。
Right?        对吗?
So that is our question.        这就是我们的问题。
If we are going to enquire together        如果我们要一起探询,
obviously the first step is        显然第一步就是
to put aside all our personal prejudices        把我们所有的个人偏见、
our personal desires, our petty problems of the moment        我们的个人期望、我们目前的小问题都放在一边,
and so have the capacity        从而获得
to enquire freely and deeply.        自由、深入探询的能力。
Capacity doesn't come through constant practice        能力并不是来自于持续的练习,
psychologically we are talking about.        我们说的是心理层面上。
It comes when there is direct interest        如果有浓厚的兴趣,
and the challenge to which you must respond with all your highest capacity        并且有你必须用你最高的能力去面对的挑战时,它就会到来,
then you have the capacity to enquire freely.        然后你就会拥有自由探询的能力。
Otherwise you will merely be playing with words.        否则,你就仅仅在玩文字游戏。
The words are important        文字很重要,
because they convey a certain meaning        因为它们传递某种含义,
but if words drive us        但如果文字驱使我们,
if words force us into certain conclusions        如果文字迫使我们得出某些结论、
certain actions, then language, words        某些行动,那么语言、文字
control us, shape us, force us.        就控制了我们,塑造我们、压迫我们。
That again is very clear, isn't it?        这也非常清楚,不是吗?
Either language uses us, or we use language.        要么语言使用我们,要么我们使用语言。
But most of us are driven by language.        但我们大多数人被语言所驱使。
In the word 'Communist' you have all kinds of fearful ideas        在“共产主义”这个词中,你能感受到各种可怕的想法,
not that the Communists are not fearful.        不是说共产主义者不可怕。
And if you say 'I am British', immediately certain reactions arise.        并且如果你说“我是英国人”,马上就会产生某些反应。
So words, language drive us, shape us        所以文字、语言驱使我们、塑造我们,
shape our thinking, our behaviour, our action.        塑造我们的思维、我们的行为、我们的行动。
In realising that        认识到了这种
the slavery to language        被语言奴役的情况,
but if we know how to use language        而如果我们知道怎样使用语言、
the exact meaning of words        文字的确切意义、
the content and the significance of the depth of the word        文字深层的内容和含义,
then we are using language unemotionally        那么我们就能不情绪化地、实事求是地
unsentimentally, not identified with a particular word        使用语言,而不与特定的词语相认同,
then we can communicate with each other directly and very simply.        然后我们就能与对方直接、简单地沟通。
If I stick to the word 'Hindu' or an 'Indian'        如果我执着于“印度教”或“印度人”这些字眼,
and that word shapes my thinking, my prejudices, all that nonsense        并且这些词语塑造了我的思维、我的偏见,所有那些无稽之谈,
then the word 'Indian' or 'Hindu' forces me to act in a certain way.        那么,“印度人”或“印度教”这些词就会迫使我按特定的方式去行动。
But whereas if I am free of that word 'Hindu'        但反之,如果我摆脱了“印度教”这个词,
with all its national, limited, superstitious significance        及其国家的、局限的、迷信的所有含义,
then I am free to understand the human being who is behind the word.        那么我就能自由地去理解那个词背后的人类。
Right?        对吗?
Are we meeting each other?        我们相互理解了吗?
At least I hope so.        至少我希望如此。
So here we are using language        所以这里我们使用语言,
and the language is not using us        而不是语言使用我们,
we are using the language unemotionally        我们不情绪化地使用语言,
language which is pliable        恰当的语言,
correct according to the dictionary        按照字典上正确的含义,
so we can both of us communicate with each other        所以我们能和彼此
very simply and directly when we use the word unemotionally        非常简单、直接地交流,只要我们不情绪化地使用
the word which hasn't got tremendous psychological content behind it.        背后没有复杂的心理内容的语言。
Can we do this?        我们能做到这点吗?
For most of us it is extraordinarily difficult        这对我们多数人来说非常困难,
because we have identified ourselves with the word        因为我们已经将自身与词语相认同,
and the word is us - I am a British, I am a Hindu.        词语就是我们—— 我是英国人,我是印度人。
Can we strip ourselves of this network of language        我们能不能摆脱这种
which is driving us, shaping us        驱使我们、塑造我们的语言之网,
and unemotionally use words that are simple, direct        不情绪化地使用直接、简单的文字,
and therefore a word that doesn't bring about psychological reactions?        从而文字不再带来心理反应?
Right? Can we do this, first of all?        对吗?首先,我们能不能做到这点?
If we can, then we can enquire together        如果可以,那么我们才能一起探询,
because we are free of the word which drives us        因为我们摆脱了驱使我们的文字,
but we are using the word directly.        我们是在直接地使用文字。
I hope this is clear.        我希望明确这点。
Am I making the thing clear?        我表达清楚了吗?
At least I hope so.        至少我希望如此。
Then knowing the meaning of words unemotionally        然后,不情绪化地懂得文字的含义,
without any reaction to the word        不对文字有任何反应,
then we can enquire into this whole problem        我们才能探询这整个
of our way of living, why we live this way        关于我们生活方式的问题,我们为什么这样生活,
why every day of our life is conflict, violent        为什么我们的日常生活满是冲突、暴力、
selfish, narrow, limited, anxious, fearful, uncertain        自私、狭隘、局限、焦虑、恐惧和不确定性,
a muddle in which we live.        我们生活在混乱之中。
So we are challenging ourselves        所以我们将激励自己
to find out why we live this way.        去发现我们为何如此生活。
Why we are mechanical in our relationship        为什么在我们的关系中、
in our ways of thinking        在我们的思维方式中我们是如此机械,
why we tolerate any form of violence        为什么我们容忍任何形式的暴力
both in ourselves and externally        存在于我们自己身上和我们周围,
why though man has lived for thousands and thousands        为什么尽管人类存在了数百万年,
and thousands of years he lives in sorrow, without any love        却仍然生活在悲伤之中,没有爱,
frightened, miserable, utterly unintelligent.        恐惧、痛苦、极其愚昧。
So we are going to begin to enquire together        所以我们要一起去探询,
using words unemotionally without any reaction        不带任何反应地、非情绪化地使用文字,
to find out why we have become so intellectually        去发现我们为什么从智力上
ethically mechanical.        和道德上都变得如此机械。
Right?        好吗?
We are just stating facts, not conclusions.        我们只表述事实,不谈结论。
It is not a conclusion to say we are mechanical, we are        说我们机械并不是一个结论,我们就是如此。
we are caught in a routine whether in the office        不论在办公室,还是劳作之后回到家里,
or when you come home from your labours        我们都被困在例行公事中,
exactly the same repetitive process goes on        我们在日常的性行为和道德活动中
sexually, ethically, in our daily action.        重复着完全相同的过程。
Some of us realise it        我们中有些人意识到了这点,
and try to escape from them by becoming revolutionaries        试图通过成为革命分子来逃脱这些,
physical revolutionaries, or ideological revolutionaries.        物质层面的革命分子,或思想上的革命分子。
Physical revolution doesn't bring about anything.        物质革命没有带来任何东西。
That is obvious, in spite of the terrorists.        这很明显,除了恐怖分子。
Psychologically, inwardly, inside the skin as it were        心理上,内在地,肌肤下面,
why have we become mechanical?        我们为什么变得机械?
I mean by that word 'mechanical'        我用“机械”这个词是指
action based on pleasure        基于快乐的行动、
action based on fear        基于恐惧的行动、
action based on authority        基于权威的行动、
action according to a certain pattern of thinking        基于某种思维方式的行动、
action along evasion        逃避的行动,
avoiding, running away and never facing the fact as we are.        躲避、逃离并且从来不肯面对我们的真实情况。
These are not conclusions, these are obvious daily facts.        这些不是结论,是明显的、平常的事实。
And again please, you are listening to yourself        并且,再次恳请你要聆听自己,
though the speaker may express it, put it into words        尽管讲话者需要表达,诉诸文字,
though the speaker is not here        尽管这里并没有讲话者,
you are listening to yourself and finding out        你要聆听自己并发现、
challenging yourselves why we live this mechanical existence.        质问自己为什么我们以如此机械的存在方式生活。
You may leave one set of ideologies        你也许会扔掉一套理论,
Christian or Communist and join another set of ideologies.        基督教或共产主义而加入另外一套理论中。
You may give up being a Catholic and become a Protestant or a Hindu        你也许会放弃天主教而变成一个新教徒或印度教徒,
or if you are rather advanced you go off into Zen Buddhism        或者如果你非常新潮,你遁形于佛教禅宗之中,
or if you are still more advanced        或者如果你更先进,
you go off into Krishnamurti stuff! (Laughter)        你就一头扎进克里希那穆提那一套里面!(笑声)
So it's all You understand        所以这是你所理解的一切,
how never demanding for ourselves what is the right thing to do        为什么我们从来不问自己做什么才是正确的事情,
always depending on somebody        总是依靠别人,
gurus, this person or that person.        上师,这个人或那个人。
So what is the right action in a world that is crumbling        所以在一个支离破碎的、日益变得可怕的世界里,
that is becoming daily more frightening        什么才是正确的行动,
where there are so many divisions of beliefs        这个世界上到处存在着信仰、
dogmas, nationalities and so on, so on, so on        教条、国家等等各种分割,
religious and every form of division.        宗教以及各种形式的分裂。
What is the right action for each one of us        什么是我们每个人的正确行动,
in our daily life with our occupations and so on        在我们的日常生活、我们的职业等方面,
what is the right action, what is the correct way of living?        什么是正确的行动,什么是正确的生活方式?
If you challenge yourselves        如果你质问自己,
and I hope you are doing it now        我希望你正在这么做,
what are you to do?        那么你打算怎么办?
So we have to enquire: What is action?        所以我们要探询:什么是行动?
Right?        对吗?
What do we mean by that word 'action'        我们说的“行动”这个词指的是什么?
whether you are married, whether you are not married        不论你结婚了还是没结婚,
whether you are in the office, whether you are fairly well off        不论你工作,还是你非常富有、
and independent and so on and so on and so on        独立,等等,等等,
what is the correct thing to do in my life        什么是我在生活中要做的正确的事情?
facing all this, not according to any pattern        面对这一切,不要遵照任何模式,
obviously, that is not correct action        显然,那不是正确的行动,
not based on certain ideologies        也不要基于特定的意识形态,
that also is not correct action        那也不是正确的行动,
because those ideologies are projected by thought        因为那些意识形态是思想,
clever, cunning thought.        聪明、狡猾的思想投射出来的。
And action based according to certain authority        并且基于某个权威的行动,
whether religious, political        不论是宗教的、政治的
or your own particular authority        或你自己特定的权威,
based on your own experience and knowledge        基于你自己的经验和知识,
that is not correct action either.        也不是正确的行动。
Please understand all this        请务必理解所有这些,
because if you base your action on your own experience        因为如果你的行动基于你自己的经验,
then your experience is very limited        而你的经验非常有限,
and you are constantly demanding        你就会一直要求得到
greater and greater and greater experience        更多、更多、更多的经验,
which is greater and greater sensation, not experience.        那是更多、更多的感受,而不是经验。
The word 'experience' means to go through, finish with something.        “经验”这个词意味着经过、结束某个事情。
And action based on a past conclusion        而基于一个过去的结论的行动,
however right, however worthy, but it is still from the past        不管结论多么正确、多么有价值,它仍然来自过去,
and therefore still limited in terms of time.        所以仍然局限于时间之中。
Or if your action is based on a future conclusion        或者如果你的行动基于一个未来的结论,
on a future ideology or a future ideal        一个关于未来的意识形态或者一个关于未来的理想,
that again is not correct action        那仍然不是正确的行动,
because you have projected the ideal        因为你已经投射那个理想,
what you should be, or what your country should be        你应该如何,或你的国家应该如何,
or what your group should be        或你的团体应该如何,
and act according to what should be        并按照“应该如何”去行动,
therefore you are not acting at all.        所以你完全没有行动。
Action implies doing something now        行动意味着现在做某件事情,
independent of the past and the future.        独立于过去和未来。
This is really quite fascinating and tremendously interesting        这真的非常迷人、非常有趣,
if I may use these words which are not the correct words        ——请允许我用这些不太确切的词,
but it doesn't matter for the moment        不过暂时没什么关系——
to find out for oneself:        你要亲自去发现:
is there an action totally devoid of time?        存在完全脱离时间的行动吗?
You understand?        你理解吗?
Time being the past with all my memories, knowledge        时间就是过去,以及我所有的记忆、知识、
experience, stored up in the brain as memory        经验,作为记忆储存在大脑中,
and acting according to that memory        而按照那个记忆去行动,
which is the past acting in the present        就是“过去”活动于现在,
or the past, which has had so many experiences        或者那个“过去”拥有那么多经验、
so many failures, so many anxieties, fears, sorrows        那么多失败,那么多焦虑、恐惧、悲伤,
projects something in the future as ideological        投射到未来成为理想,
what should be, how happy it would be        应该如何,将是多么幸福,
and act according to that, which again is non-action.        而按照那些去行动,仍然不是真正的行动。
Right?        对吗?
At least let's meet together intellectually        至少让我们从理智上理解这一点,
then if you understand that intellectually        如果你从理智上理解了这点,
then you can go still deeper into it        你就能继续深入下去,
at least we can understand each other at that level        至少我们能在那个层面上相互理解,
which is very limited.        尽管非常有限。
Then: is there an action in daily life        那么:在我们的日常生活中,
in our daily relationship with each other        在我们日常与彼此的关系中,
intimate or not intimate, sexual or not sexual        无论亲密或不亲密,或者有没有性关系,
is there an action which will be holistic, whole        有没有一种整体的、完整的行动,
which is not dependent on time, on environment, on circumstances?        不依赖于时间、环境或周围的条件?
So we are challenging: is there such an action?        所以我们要质询:有没有这样的行动?
Or we only know action based on the past, or on the future.        或者我们只知道基于过去或未来的行动。
We don't know any other action        我们不知道任何其他的行动,
and we accept such action        并且我们接受那样的行动,
it is much more convenient, more comfortable        接受这样的行动更方便、
easy to accept such action.        更舒服、更容易。
So we are challenging each other to find out if it is possible        所以我们互相挑战,去发现有没有可能
to live a life of correct action        过一种正确行动的生活,
which is not dependent on environment        这种行动不依赖环境、
on circumstances, on the past, or on the future.        不依赖周围条件、过去或未来。
You understand?        你理解吗?
This is the most difficult thing to find out.        这是最难弄清楚的事情。
When you want to find out such an action        当你要发现这样的行动,
if there is such an action        是不是存在这样的行动,
thought immediately begins to operate.        思想马上开始运作。
Thought says 'Is there such a thing?' 'I must enquire'        思想说“有这样的事情吗?”“我必须打听一下。”
So thought is the past - isn't it?        所以思想就是“过去”,不是吗?
Thought is the outcome of memory        思想是记忆的产物,
thought is the result of your experience        思想是你的经验、
accumulated knowledge and from that arises memory        积累的知识的结果,从中产生记忆,
and then from the reaction of that memory is thinking.        然后从那记忆产生的反应就是思维。
That is simple, very simple if you go into it.        如果你深入进去,会发现这非常简单。
It is not complicated.        这并不复杂。
So when there is such a challenge as saying:        所以,当有一个质询,说:
is there action which is not dependent on the past        有没有不依赖
or the future, or on environment, circumstances        过去、未来或周围环境的行动,
then thought begins to operate.        然后思想就开始运作。
Right? That is what you are doing.        对吗?这正是你在做的。
Then thought says, 'I must find out such action'        接着思想说,“我必须找到这种行动。”
Since thought cannot find such action, you say that's impossible.        因为思想找不到这种行动,于是你说那不可能。
You are following all this?        你理解了这些吗?
We are all together in this, or am I talking to myself?        我们都理解了这点吗,还是我在自言自语?
I can do that in my room.        我可以在自己房间里这么做。
But I don't, anyhow, but so.        但不管怎样我没有那么做,而是在这里讲。
So action based on thought is limited        所以基于思想的行动是局限的,
because thought in itself is a broken up thing, a fragment        因为思想本身是支离破碎的,是一个碎片,
limited because it is based on knowledge        是局限的,因为它基于知识,
and knowledge however much you may accumulate        而知识无论你积累多少,
however much you may accumulate facts        无论你积累多少事实,
expanding knowledge over and over        一次次地扩展知识,
expanding constantly, it is still limited.        不断地扩展,它仍然是局限的。
That is obvious again.        这也很明显。
Perhaps not to the people        也许对有些人来说不那么明显,
who advocate the ascent of man through knowledge        他们提倡通过知识提升人类,
because that is their particular form of conclusion.        因为那是他们一个特定的结论。
But when one sees actually, in daily life        但当一个人在日常生活中真正看到
how knowledge is so extraordinarily limited        知识是多么局限,
you may have technological knowledge, and you must have        你可以有技术知识,而且你也必须有,
and to that knowledge more can be added        对于这种知识,能够增加它的内容、
it can be constantly expanded        能够不断扩展,
but is there the accumulation of psychological knowledge        但是否存在心理知识的积累,
from which action takes place?        让行动从中产生?
You understand? Are we        你理解吗?我们是不是……
All right.        好吧。
One has accumulated knowledge, psychologically.        一个人在心理上积累了知识。
I have been hurt        我受到了伤害,
many years ago as a boy, or a girl, I have been hurt.        许多年前我还是个男孩或女孩的时候,我被伤害了。
And that hurt has become my knowledge        并且那个伤害变成了我的知识,
it is there inside my skin.        它保存在我的肌肤之下。
And I act according to that knowledge, which is I resist        所以我按照那个知识去行动,也就是我抗拒、
I isolate myself in order not to be hurt more.        我封闭自己以便不再受伤。
And so there is constant division between me and another        所以在我和他人之间存在着持续的分离,
to prevent being further hurt.        以避免被进一步伤害。
This is a common fact again.        这又是一个普遍的事实。
So I act according to that knowledge.        所以我根据那个知识去行动。
I may see the irrationality of it.        我也许看到了其中的不合理。
I may go to psychologists.        我可以去找心理学家。
I may do all kinds of things about it        我可以对它做各种事情,
but the wound is still there        但那个伤害仍然在那儿,
and that wound is responding all the time.        并且那个伤害总是有所反应。
So I am acting according to a past incident        所以我在根据一个过去的事件行动,
whether that past incident is pleasurable or painful is irrelevant        不论那件过去的事情是快乐的或痛苦的,都无关紧要,
but it is the past event, which is my knowledge.        但那是过去的事情,是我的知识。
I have had a lovely afternoon - that becomes my knowledge.        我曾经度过了一个愉快的下午——那成了我的知识。
I am going to have a marvellous day tomorrow        我明天也要兴高采烈地过一天,
and again, you follow? - this whole process is based on        再来一次,你明白吗?——这整个过程基于
the accumulative process of experience, desire and pleasure.        经验、欲望和快乐的积累过程。
So is there an action which is totally independent of all this?        所以,有没有一种行动完全脱离了这些?
You understand my question?        你理解我提出的问题吗?
To enquire into that, the operation of thought        深入进去探询,思想的运作
must be understood because you can't stop thinking.        必须被弄清楚,因为你不能停止思考。
If you force, as many people do through meditation        如果你压制,像很多人在冥想中做的那样,
which is not meditation, try to control thought        那不是真正的冥想,尽力去控制思想、
shape thought, then they have divided themselves        塑造思想,他们就把自己分裂成了
into the thinker who is superior and thought, inferior        高高在上的思想者和低下的思想,
and so the superior tries to control the inferior - you know all this.        于是在上的努力去控制在下的——你知道这一切。
So is there a way        所以有没有一种
of an action which is totally divorced from all this?        完全脱离这些的行动方式?
We are challenging you        我们在挑战你,
I am challenging you and you are challenging me        我在挑战你,而你在挑战我,
together we are in a state of being challenged.        我们一起处于一种被挑战的状态。
Perhaps if you have challenged sufficiently deeply and earnestly        或许如果你挑战地足够深入、足够认真,
and with all your being        并且用你整个的存在去挑战,
then you will find an answer, which is, I will tell you        那么你将发现一个答案,我会告诉你,
but we are discussing this together        但我们是在一起讨论,
we are sharing this together        我们是在一起分享这些,
therefore I am not telling you and you are not accepting it        所以不是我来告诉你然后你来接受,
because then it becomes futile        因为那样它就变得毫无意义,
then we might just as well go to some guru.        那样的话我们还不如去找个上师。
But whereas if you can discover this for yourself        然而如果你能亲自发现答案,
then you are free - you understand?        那么你就自由了—— 你明白吗?
You have understood action in all its full meaning        你就理解了行动的全部意义,
and its depth and the beauty of action.        以及行动的深度和美。
We say - the speaker says there is such an action        我们说——讲话者说存在这样的行动,
devoid completely from the past or the future        它完全脱离过去或未来、
from environment, from circumstances.        脱离环境、脱离周围条件。
It is to have an insight        这需要对思想的
into the total movement of thought        整个运动有一个完全的洞察,
as it expresses itself in the environment, circumstances        洞察思想在周围的环境、条件、
past and future, which is to have insight into action.        过去和未来中表现自己的活动,也就是洞察行动。
That is, insight is not the response of memory.        也就是说,洞察不是记忆的反应。
Right?        对吗?
Hasn't it ever happened to you, suddenly you say        难道你没有遇到过这样的情况,你突然说
'I have understood it'?        “我明白了”?
without words, without gestures, without circumstances        不借助语言、手势,不借助环境、
without the past, you suddenly feel by Jove, I've got it.        不借助过去,你突然感觉:天哪,我明白了。
And that is irrevocable, it is ultimate truth        而且那是不可逆转的,是最终的事实,
you can't say, well I have got it, next day I have lost it.        你不能说,好,我今天明白了,第二天我又糊涂了。
So we are going to find out together        所以我们将一起去弄清
the meaning of this word 'insight'.        “洞察”这个词的含义。
To have an insight into something is not personal        对某事的洞察不是个人行为,
is not based on some ideological conclusions, memories, remembrances.        不是基于某些思想、结论、记忆。
One must be free of that to have an instant insight into something.        人必须摆脱那些才能拥有即时的洞察力。
One must be free of knowledge to have immediate perception.        人必须摆脱知识的束缚才能拥有直接的理解力。
This is not something extravagant, exotic, or rather emotional        这并不是什么夸夸其谈、奇谈怪论或情绪化的说法,
but actual.        而是真实的。
Where, if you have ever had this kind of immediate understanding        如果你曾经有过这种直接的领悟,
and therefore immediate action        因而有即刻的行动,
that immediate understanding demands immediate action irrelevant of time.        这种直接的领悟会带来与时间无关的即刻的行动。
Hasn't it happened?        难道没发生过吗?
It happens, obviously        显然发生过,
but then thought says, 'I have had that insight        但随后思想说,“我有了那个洞察力,
I have had that strange deep perception        我有了那个奇特而深刻的领悟,
nd therefore from that immediate action        并且从那种领悟中产生了即时的行动,
but I wish it would continue all the time'.        但我希望它能一直持续下去。”
You understand?        你明白吗?
I want that insight, that immediate perception        我希望那个洞察、那个直接的感知、
immediate understanding, to continue.        直接的理解,继续下去。
When you say it must continue        当你说它必须继续,
you have already begun the whole movement of thought.        你就已经开始了整个思想的运动。
I wonder if you see this.        我想知道你们有没有理解这点。
Insight, the quick perception of something        洞察,那种快速的对事情的理解,
is instantaneous and finished there.        是即时的,并且当时就结束了。
You can't carry it over.        你不能把它带走。
Whereas thought demands that it should be carried over        然而思想说应该把它带走,
therefore prevents the next insight.        因而阻止了下一个洞察。
I wonder if you get all this.        我不知道你有没有完全理解这点。
Have we understood something of this        我们是不是起码理解了一些?
because it is very important        因为这很重要,
because from this we can go into something        因为从这点出发,我们能探究
further where quick insight is demanded        更深的事物,在这个过程中需要快速的洞察,
so that you never have to struggle, never have to have conflict.        这样你就再也不必努力,再也不必纠结。
Because when you are acting upon insight it is an irrevocable truth.        因为当你在洞察的基础上行动,那就是一个不可逆转的事实。
It is not intuition.        那不是直觉。
Don't go away We are using the word carefully.        不要走偏了。我们在小心翼翼地使用词语。
People have intuitions, which is, they desire        人们有直觉,那是他们的渴望、
project and you know all that kind of ugly stuff.        投射,你知道所有那类丑陋的事情。
This is insight.        而这是洞察。
Quick perception and action is not personal        快速的领悟和行动不是个人的,
therefore it is whole, it is holistic.        因而是完整的,是整体的。
And our actions are never whole.        而我们的行动从来不完整。
We do something, regret        我们做事,后悔地说
'I wish I hadn't done that'        “我希望我没做那件事”,
or we have done something that gives us pleasure        或者我们做了某件事使我们很快乐,
and we want more of that action.        然后我们就想要更多的那种行动。
So whereas insight is something which is quite simple        然而洞察是非常简单的事情,
but to have such an insight into things        而要对事情有这种洞察,
one must have a quick mind, not a dull mind        人要有敏捷的头脑,而不是迟钝的头脑,
not a mind that is frightened        不是一个害怕的头脑,
or a mind where thought says 'If I do that what will happen?        也不是这样的头脑:思想说“如果我做会怎样?
I might regret it, or there might be failure        我可能后悔,或者可能失败,
it might bring about hurt to others and to myself'        可能对其他人或我自己造成伤害。”
and so action is never total, complete, whole.        所以这种行动从来不完整、不完全。
Whereas action which is born out of insight        然而从洞察、从直接的领悟中
immediate perception, has no regrets because it is actual        产生的行动,没有遗憾,因为它是真实的,
it is the only action.        是唯一的行动。
Now bearing that in mind        现在脑子里记得这一点,
perhaps even intellectually        或许只是用智力记住的,
do you have a quick perception        那么你能不能即刻洞察
of what is the whole nature and structure of authority?        权威的整个本质和结构?
Authority of books, authority of professors        书籍的权威,教授的权威,
authority of scientists, authority of the religious priests        科学家的权威,宗教牧师的权威,
and so on and so on.        等等,等等。
Or your own experience, which has become your authority.        或者你自己的经验,变成了你的权威。
To have an immediate insight into it        直接洞察它的内涵,
then you are free totally of all authority.        然后你就完全摆脱了权威。
Then you don't have to fight and struggle to say        然后你就不必抗争着去说
'I accept this authority, I don't accept that authority.        “我接受这个权威,不接受那个权威。
The authority of my guru is marvellous        我的上师的权威是崇高的,
but I reject the authority of the priest'.        而我拒绝牧师的权威。”
They are exactly the same thing.        他们是完全一回事。
So in discussing, in being challenged        所以在讨论中,在被挑战
and challenging each other, are you free of authority?        和相互挑战中,你摆脱了权威的束缚吗?
There is the authority of the policeman        有警察的权威,
there is the authority of the law        有法律的权威,
the authority of the surgeon        有外科医生的权威,
that perhaps has its right place        那也许有其正确的位置,
but is there psychological authority of a belief, of a dogma        但是否存在信仰、教条、结论、意识形态、
of a conclusion, of an ideology, the Communist, Socialist        共产主义、社会主义这样的心理权威,
or whatever authority, religious, inwardly?        宗教或者任何其他内在的权威呢?
If you have then you will never find out what is right action        如果你有这样的权威,你就永远不会发现什么是正确的行动,
obviously. Right?        显然如此。对吗?
So in enquiring step by step into this are you actually        所以在一步步深入探询的过程中,你是否
if I may most respectfully ask, free of authority        ——如果我可以极其礼貌地问——你是否摆脱了权威的束缚?
including the authority of this person        包括此刻
sitting on the platform at this moment?        坐在台上的这个人的权威?
If you are not        如果你没有摆脱,
find out why you accept        那就弄清楚你为什么
authority        内心会
inwardly.        接受权威。
Objectively you need authority.        客观上你需要权威。
Right?        对吗?
You can't drive on the right hand side in England        你在英国不能在右侧驾驶车辆,
you would have accidents.        你会发生交通事故。
If you reject authority of some State laws        如果你拒绝接受一些国家法律的权威,
you will be punished and so on and so on        你将会受到惩罚,如此等等,
there authority has its right place.        权威在这里有其正确的位置。
But inwardly, deeply, not to have any form of authority.        而内在地、在内心深处,不要有任何形式的权威。
Then we can proceed to enquire        接下来我们继续探询
into why human beings live constantly in a state of fear.        为什么人类持续生活在恐惧状态中。
Right?        好吗?
Shall we go into that?        我们可以探讨这个吗?
Why you as a human being        为什么你作为一个人,
who is the representative of all humanity        一个全人类的代表,
right? - I wonder if you realise that.        对吗?——我不知道你有没有意识到这点。
That you as a human being represent the entire human mind        就是你作为一个人代表着整个人类的心灵,
because you suffer, you are uncertain        因为你痛苦,你不确定,
you are caught in certain beliefs        你被某些信仰困住,
or you are conditioned, you are British        或者你被制约着,你是英国人,
you are French, you are German, or this or that        你是法国人,你是德国人,或这个或那个,
and you believe in this Jesus or Christ        并且你信仰这个耶稣或基督,
or somebody else doesn't believe in that        还有其他人不信仰那些,
and you are a Hindu, a Muslim, you follow?        你是个印度教徒,是个穆斯林,你明白吗?
So are you aware that in your relationship        所以,你有没有意识到,在你的关系中,
in your daily activity, there is a sense of great fear.        在你的日常活动中,有一种巨大的恐惧感。
Right? Is one aware of it?        对吗?你注意到了吗?
If one is, then to have a - now looK:         如果你意识到了,那么——现在来看一看:
if you have fear the natural response        如果你有恐惧,那么自然的反应,
I won't call it natural - the irrational response is        我不称之为自然的——不理智的反应是
to cultivate courage, whatever that may mean        去培养勇气,不论那意味着什么,
or to run away from it        或者逃离它,
or rationalise it - why shouldn't I be afraid        或者将它合理化—— 我为什么就不应该害怕,
it is natural and so on and so on.        那是自然的,等等,等等。
Or you identify your fear and yourself        或者你将你的恐惧和你自己相认同,
yourself and fear are one        你自己和恐惧是一体的,
there is not you separate from fear        并不存在和恐惧分开的你,
so that fear which is you identifies itself with something greater        所以那种恐惧就是你,它把自己认同于某个更伟大的东西,
and says in that surrender to the greater I have lost fear.        并且说,在对更伟大者的臣服中我丢掉了恐惧。
We have played all these kind of games for centuries.        数个世纪以来,我们一直玩着这类五花八门的游戏。
And we still have fear, at the end of a million years        而过了一百万年之后,我们仍然有恐惧,
every human being right through the world has some kind of fear.        全世界每个人都有某种恐惧。
Now to have a quick insight into it        现在要快速洞察它,
and therefore be totally free from it.        从而完全摆脱它。
Is that possible?        那可能吗?
Because fear is the most dreadful thing, it makes you        因为恐惧是最可怕的事情,它使你
you know all the rest of it, what the result of fear is        ——你知道这一切,恐惧的结果就是
neuroticism of every kind        各种各样的神经质,
escape into various forms of entertainment        逃避到各种形式的娱乐中去,
religious and otherwise        宗教的或非宗教的,
rationalising fears and accepting fear as part of our daily existence.        将恐惧合理化,接受恐惧为我们日常生存的一部分。
Now we are asking: is it possible        那么我们要问:有没有可能
to have an insight into the whole nature and structure of fear        洞察恐惧的整个本质和结构
and be free of it?        并摆脱它?
Don't you want to know if you can be free of fear?        难道你不想知道你能不能摆脱恐惧?
Or do you accept, as we accept so many things, as a part of life?        还是你接受恐惧,正像我们接受那么多事物那样,是生活的一部分?
If you don't accept it as part of life        如果你不接受它是生活的一部分,
then what is the nature of fear?        那么,恐惧的本质是什么?
What is the root of fear?        恐惧的根源是什么?
What is the substance, the structure, the whole movement of fear?        恐惧的实质、结构、整个运动是什么?
Not only fear of one's wife or husband, girl - you know, fear        不仅是害怕自己的妻子或者丈夫,女朋友——你知道,
in its entirety, not one particular form of fear.        恐惧这个整体,不是特殊形式的恐惧。
Don't you want to find out?        难道你不想弄清楚吗?
In the sense, don't you want to give your mind        就是说,难道你不想付出你的心、
your thought, your being, your whole energy to find out        你的思想、你的身体、你全部的能力去发现
whether it is possible to eradicate totally fear?        有没有可能完全根除恐惧?
Fear has many forms        恐惧有很多种形式,
one of the major factors of fear is attachment        恐惧的主要因素之一是依附,
attachment to a person, attachment to an ideal        依附于一个人,依附于一种理想、
to a belief, attachment to a piece of furniture        一种信仰,依附于一件家具,
you know what attachment is.        你知道依附是什么。
And where there is attachment        并且存在依附的地方,
there is inevitably the fear of losing.        必然存在对失去的恐惧。
And is it possible to exist without isolating, without attachment?        所以有没有可能没有孤立、没有依附地生活?
You understand my question?        你理解我提出的问题吗?
Is it possible for a human being        人是否可能,
who has lived ten thousand years and more        人类在过去的一万多年中
lived always in fear as part of his life        始终伴随着恐惧生活,
from the caveman till now        从穴居时代到现在一直如此,
is it possible to uncondition himself from fear?        有没有可能将自己从恐惧的制约中解放出来?
As we said, one of the factors of fear is attachment.        正如我们所说,恐惧的因素之一是依附。
To find out if one is attached, not avoid it        去发现你是否依附,而不是避免依附,
find out to see if one is attached to something        发现你是否依附于什么,
to your guru, to your knowledge, to your furniture        依附于你的上师、你的知识、你的家具、
to your friend, to your wife, girl, boy or whatever it is        你的朋友、你的妻子、女朋友、男朋友或任何什么,
attached to your country.        依附于你的国家。
Where there is attachment there is jealousy        只要有依附,就会有嫉妒、
there is possessiveness        占有,
there is a sense of identifying oneself with something else.        就会有一种自己与其他东西的认同感。
And when there is that attachment and identification        只要存在那种依附和认同,
there is always uncertainty.        就总是存在不确定性。
These are facts, aren't they?        这些都是事实,不是吗?
No?        不是?
So can you be free of attachment        所以你能不能摆脱依附,
not tomorrow or when you are on the deathbed        不是在明天或当你生命即将结束时,
then of course it is very simple to be detached! (Laughter)        那时候撒手当然很简单!(笑声)
You can't argue with death.        你无法和死亡讨价还价。
But now living your daily life        而是要在现在的日常生活中,
to be free of every form of attachment        摆脱任何形式的依附,
without becoming isolated, which again breeds fear.        不是通过封闭自己,那会再次产生恐惧。
I may detach myself from this        我可以将自己从中抽离出来,
and from everything else and suddenly feel I am lonely        从任何其他东西之中抽离出来,却突然觉得我很孤独,
sense of emptiness        有一种空虚感,
and being frightened of that emptiness        并对那种空虚感到害怕,
begin again being attached, not to a person, but to some marvellous ideal.        于是再次依附,不是依附于一个人,而是依附于某些伟大的理想。
All that, in every form        所有这些,在任何形式的
of attachment brings fear.        依附中都会产生恐惧。
A man or a woman who really enquires and demands, challenges himself        一个真正探询、探求的男人或女人,挑战自己
whether you can ever be free of fear        是否能够摆脱恐惧,
then we have to have a quick insight        那么我们必须要有
into the whole nature of attachment.        对依附的整个结构的快速洞察。
Have you, as we are talking, exploring with each other        当我们一起谈论、探索的时候,你是否
have your got this feeling, this insight        获得了这种感觉、这种洞察,
this immediate perception of the whole nature of attachment        这种对依附的整个本质
and its structure with all        和结构以及其中
the complications involved in it, see it instantly.        所有复杂性的即刻领悟,立即看清它。
And when you see it in all its totality it is finished.        而当你完全看清它的时候,它就完结了。
It doesn't mean you become callous.        那并不意味着你变得冷酷无情。
It doesn't mean you become isolated.        也并不意味着你隔离了自己。
On the contrary: you are a free human being        正相反:你成了一个自由的人,
who is no longer held down by fear.        不再被恐惧掌控。
Right?        对吗?
That is only one expression of fear.        那只是恐惧的一种表现。
Perhaps the deepest expression of fear        也许恐惧最深层的表现是
of losing what you have.        失去你所拥有的。
Actually you have nothing but that is irrelevant.        实际上你一无所有,但那不相干。
So what is the root of all this fear?        所以什么是所有恐惧的根源?
You see most of us are inclined        你看到多数人都倾向于
to trim the branches of fear.        修剪恐惧的枝条。
Right?        对吗?
I am afraid of this thing therefore let me get rid of it        我害怕这件事情,所以让我摆脱它,
or let me go to somebody who will help me to be free of fear        或者让我去求助什么人帮我摆脱恐惧,
of that particular expression of fear        摆脱恐惧的那种特定的表现形式,
the psychologist, the priest, the analyst        心理学家、牧师、精神分析学家、
the latest gurus and all that business.        最时髦的上师及诸如此类的把戏。
But we are not concerned with the trimming of the tree of fear        但我们不关心修剪恐惧之树,
but rather to uncover the root of fear        我们宁愿发掘恐惧的根本,
so that when you see the root of it        当你看到恐惧的根本,
and have a depth of understanding of the root        从深层次上理解了其根源,
then if you have such an understanding        如果你有了这样的理解,
and this is an insight, then fear disappears completely        并且这是一种洞察,那么恐惧就完全消失了。
you are no longer afraid psychologically.        你心理上不再恐惧。
Physically it is a different matter.        身体上那是另外一回事。
Physically        在身体上,
one must be careful        一个人必须仔细小心,
one must be rational, sane        必须理性、明智,
unless you are extraordinarily neurotic        除非你极端神经质,
then that is a different matter.        那就是另外一回事了。
But physically one must be watchful of danger        在身体上一个人必须当心危险,
as you would be watchful of a precipice        就像你会当心悬崖,
as you would be watchful of a dangerous animal        就像你会当心某个危险的动物,
and perhaps human beings are becoming        而人类也许正变得
more and more dangerous than any animal.        远比任何动物更危险。
So one has to be watchful of human beings        所以你必须小心人类,
the terrorists, the politicians        那些恐怖主义者、那些政客,
are there any politicians here? (Laughter)        这儿有政治家吗?(笑声)
And very watchful of gurus (laughter) and so on and on and on.        要特别当心上师(笑声)等等,等等。
So one understands the watchfulness, the danger - physical.        所以一个人能够理解这种小心、危险——身体层面的。
But what is the root of psychological fear?        但什么是心理恐惧的根源?
Please challenge, ask yourself.        请挑战、询问你自己。
Don't accept my challenge.        不要接受我的挑战。
Ask yourself what is the root of all this.        问问你自己这一切的根源是什么。
Don't say 'I don't know'        不要说“我不知道”,
and just leave it like that, or draw some conclusion.        不要只是把问题丢在那儿,或者得出某个结论。
If you do, it will prevent you from finding out the root of it.        如果你那样做,就会妨碍你发现恐惧的根源。
If you say, 'I really don't know        如果你说,“我确实不知道
what the root of fear is', then you start with humility.        恐惧的根源是什么”,那么你就谦卑地开始了探询。
Then you say, 'I really don't know but I am going to find out'.        然后你说,“我确实不知道,但我要去弄清楚。”
But if you start with arrogance of saying 'I can solve it.        但如果你开始就自大地说:“我能解决它。
I know, I have all the facts about fear'        我知道,我了解关于恐惧的全部事实”,
then you are starting with a conclusion        那么你就是从一个结论、
with a sense of hope        从一种希望感开始的,
which doesn't mean you must be in despair to ask it        并不是说你必须从绝望中去发问,
but if you are really deeply concerned with        而是如果你真正深切地关心
the nature and the structure of fear at its very depth        恐惧深层的本质和结构,
what is the root of fear?        那么恐惧的根源是什么?
Those of you who have read or heard the speaker before        你们中以前读过或听过讲话者的那些人,
don't say 'Yes, I know it'.        不要说“是的,我知道”。
That is a cheap trick.        那是一个廉价的伎俩。
Because you have heard somebody tell you that        因为你已经听到有人告诉了你那些,
and that may be the truth but it is not yours        而那也许是真理,但不是你的,
it is not the truth, it is somebody else's.        那就不是真理,那是别人的。
There is no your truth or my truth        并不存在你的或我的真理,
but if you accept a statement made by somebody like this person        但如果你接受了别人,比如这个人所做的表述,
and say 'Yes, I have heard that before        然后说“是的,我以前听说过,
but it hasn't got rid of my fear'        但它没有去掉 我的恐惧”,
then language is driving you.        那么语言就在驱使你。
You understand?        你明白吗?
Language is driving you.        语言在驱使你。
Language is using you.        语言在利用你。
But if you are free of what you have heard before        但如果你能摆脱以前听说的,
but actually demand now as you are sitting there, to find out        当你坐在那儿的时候能真正去探求、去发现
what is the essence, the root, the basis of all fear        所有恐惧的本质、根源、基础是什么,
then as you don't know you come to it afresh        那么因为你不知道,于是你重新面对它,
you come to it with a certain sense of curiosity to find out.        你带着一种好奇心去接近、去发现。
But if you come to it already with some conclusion        但如果你已经带着某些结论去研究,
there is no possibility of your understanding the root of it.        你就不可能理解它的根源。
So let's find out together, afresh        所以让我们一起去重新发现
what is the root of this whole nature and the structure of fear.        恐惧的整个本质和结构的根源是什么。
When you want to find out, if you have a motive        当你想要弄清楚,如果你有个动机,
that is, 'I must be free of fear' - which is a motive        也就是说“我必须摆脱恐惧”——这就是一个动机,
then that motive gives a direction to your enquiry.        那么这个动机就给了你的探询一个方向。
So the motive which gives a direction prevents you from enquiring.        那么提供方向的动机就阻碍了你的探询。
This is simple, isn't it?        这简单明了,不是吗?
If I have a motive in order to enquire into fear        如果我有一个深入探究恐惧的动机,
because I want to get rid of fear        因为我想摆脱恐惧,
then I have already given a direction to it.        那么我已经为此确定了一个方向。
Right?        对吗?
Because my desire is to get rid of it        因为我的愿望是要摆脱它,
not to understand the nature and the structure and the depth of fear.        而不是要理解恐惧的本质、结构和深度。
I want to get rid of the word 'fear'.        我要摆脱“恐惧”那个词。
So the word 'fear' is driving us.        所以“恐惧”那个词在驱使我。
You understand?        你明白吗?
Whereas if you look at it        然而,如果你看着它,
if you are free of the word and say        如果你不受那个词约束,并且说
'What is this fear which I have lived with for so long?'        “和我一起生活了那么长时间的这个恐惧是什么?”
What is it?        它是什么?
Is it time?        是时间吗?
time being yesterday, today and tomorrow        时间就是昨天、今天和明天,
sun setting, sun rising.        太阳落下,太阳升起。
Which is, is fear the result of time?        也就是说,恐惧是时间的结果吗?
Something happened which you are fearful        某些你害怕的事情
of a year ago or yesterday        一年前或昨天发生了,
and that fear of that incident remains        而对那件事的恐惧依然存在着,
and that memory of that thing is called fear.        对那件事情的记忆就叫恐惧。
You are following all this?        你理解这些了吗?
The memory of that incident        对发生在
which took place a year ago or yesterday        一年前或昨天的那件事的记忆
has left a certain remembrance        留下了某些回忆,
and that remembrance says there is fear.        而那个回忆说心里害怕。
Right?        对吗?
So recollection of a word called fear we say, that is fear.        所以,对一个称为“恐惧”的词的回忆,我们说,那就是恐惧。
Whereas we are trying to find out        然而我们在试着搞清楚,
being free of the word, what is the essence of it.        摆脱那个词,它的本质是什么。
Are you following all this?        你理解这些了吗?
Is this getting too tiresome all this?        这一切是不是变得太无聊了?
Tant pis.        真糟糕。
What is the root of it?        它的根源是什么?
I say to myself because I am a very serious person        我对自己说,因为我是一个非常认真的人,
and I have got plenty of energy        并且我有很多精力,
I must find it out because I don't want to live with fear.        我要把它弄清楚,因为我不想活在恐惧中。
It is too absurd, too illogical, irrational.        它太荒谬、太不合理了。
What is the essence of it? Is it time?        它的本质是什么?是时间吗?
It is partly that, time.        一部分是时间。
And also        再者,
is thought creating fear?        是思想产生恐惧吗?
You understand?        你明白吗?
So time, thought.        所以是时间,思想。
I have understood more or less the nature of time        我或多或少理解了时间的本质,
time externally, time inwardly, psychologically:        外在的时间,内在的、心理上的时间:
I will be, I am not, I will be        我将是,我不是,我将是
or I should be, whereas I am not.        或我应该是,然而我不是。
The 'should be' is the movement of time.        那个“应该是”就是时间的运动。
Right?        对吗?
I wonder if you are        我想知道你是不是……
This is important, you are following all this?        这很重要,你完全理解了这些吗?
It is a nice morning and I hope you are enjoying this too.        这是个美好的早晨,我希望你也享受这些。
I hope you are having a pleasant, happy time in this enquiry        我希望你愉快地、高兴地进行这种探询,
as you would have a pleasant time sitting on the lawn        就像你很享受坐在草坪上那样,
and looking at the trees and the clouds and the warm sunshine.        看着树、云彩,享受着温暖的阳光。
So what is thought then?        那么,思想是什么?
I have understood the nature of time.        我已经理解了时间的本质。
Now I want to understand if thought is responsible for fear.        现在我想了解思想是不是对恐惧负责。
I don't know but I am going to find out.        我不知道,但我要去弄明白。
If thought is responsible        如果思想有责任,
I must understand the whole nature of thought.        我就必须理解思想的整个本质。
What is thinking?        思考是什么?
Thinking is the response of memory.        思考就是对记忆的反应。
Right? Obviously.        对吗?很明显。
If you had no memory at all you wouldn't think.        如果你完全没有记忆,你就不会思考。
But thinking has become very important for us.        但思考对我们来说已经变得非常重要。
We apply thinking to everything we do.        我们做任何事情都要用到思想。
Is love a remembrance, a thought?        爱是一种记忆,一种思想吗?
I am not talking of sexual love, sensation, the sensuous love.        我不是在谈论性爱、感官享受、感官刺激的爱。
I won't even call that love, it is sensation.        我甚至不称其为爱,那是感官感受。
Is love sensation?        爱是感官感受吗?
Is love a remembrance?        爱是记忆吗?
And is thought love?        而思想是爱吗?
You understand, I am asking all this.        你知道,我在问所有这些问题。
And what is the nature of thought?        那么思想的本质是什么?
Very simply, it is based on the accumulation of knowledge        很简单,它基于知识的积累,
gathered through experience of millennia, living        知识通过数千年的经验、生存积累起来,
which is stored up in the brain        储存在大脑中。
I am not a brain specialist, you can watch yourself        我不是一个大脑专家,你可以
in the brain and the memory responds to a challenge.        在头脑中观察自己,而记忆会对一个挑战做出反应。
Now I am challenging myself: what is thinking?        现在我就在挑战自己:什么是思想?
And so it says, 'Memory, of course'.        然后它说,“当然是记忆”。
So is memory responsible for fear?        那么记忆要对恐惧负责吗?
I have been hurt physically last year        我的身体去年受伤了,
I remember that and I am afraid it might come back again        我记住了并且害怕它再次重演,
the disease, or the pain, or whatever it is.        疾病,或者疼痛,诸如此类。
That is        那是
thought based on an experience of last year's or yesterday's pain        基于去年或昨天的痛苦经历的思想,
remembering it and being frightened of it        记住了它并感到害怕,
that it mustn't happen again.        它不要再发生了。
All our action, all our existence, is based on thought.        我们所有的行动、所有的生活都是基于思想的。
I don't know if you have realised this extraordinary fact:        我不知道你有没有认识到这个非凡的事实:
everything that we do is based on thought.        我们所做的任何事情都是基于思想的,
There is no spontaneity        没有自发性,
that is quite a different existence, to be spontaneous.        自发是一种截然不同的状态。
To have that spontaneity        要拥有自发性,
one must understand the nature of thought        一个人就必须理解思想的本质,
which has conditioned our brain        思想已经制约了我们的头脑,
our whole mental outlook, our activity.        我们的整个心理视野、我们的活动。
When there is an understanding        当存在一种理解、
immediate insight into this then there is spontaneity        一种即时深入的洞察,那么就会自发性、
there is freedom.        就会有自由。
But that is quite a different matter.        但那是一件截然不同的事情。
So we are asking: time, I see is partly responsible.        所以我们要问:时间,我明白,负有部分责任。
Thought is also responsible.        思想也有责任。
Is time thought?        时间是思想吗?
Or thought is time?        或者,思想是时间?
You understand?        你明白吗?
They are not time and thought, separate.        它们不是分开的——时间和思想。
There is only thought which creates psychological time.        只有产生心理时间的思想。
Right?        对吗?
And therefore having gone into the depth of it        因而,深入进去
understood it, not intellectually, verbally        理解了之后,不是智力上、言语上的理解,
but actually seen for oneself the nature of thinking        而是亲自真实地看到思想的本质,
then one realises thought is basically responsible for fear.        那么一个人就能认识到思想从根本上要为恐惧负责。
Then one says, 'How then can I stop thinking?'        然后,他说,“那么我怎样才能停止思想呢?”
which is the most absurd question.        这是一个最荒唐的问题。
You see that is part of the trick of what the gurus have brought.        你看,那就是上师们玩的把戏之一。
Which is: meditate, try to control thought, stop thought.        就是:冥想,尽力控制思想,停止思想。
Have you ever tried to stop thinking?        你曾经尝试过停止思想吗?
If you have you will find out        如果你试过,你就会发现
that the person who says 'I must stop thinking'        那个说“我必须停止思考”的人,
the entity that says that, is also part of thought.        那个这么说的实体,就是思想的一部分。
He is playing a trick upon itself.        他在耍花招欺骗自己。
So if you see time is thought, time is movement, movement        所以,如果你看到时间是思想,时间是运动,
from yesterday, today, tomorrow.        从昨天到今天、到明天。
And also thought is a movement        并且思想也是一种运动,
movement based on past memories, past experiences        基于过去的记忆、经验、
past knowledge - knowledge is always the past.        知识的运动——知识就是过去。
So thought is basically responsible for fear.        所以思想从根本上对恐惧负有责任。
You understand?        你明白吗?
Now is the word 'fear', fear? You understand?        那么,“恐惧”那个词,是恐惧吗?你明白吗?
Is the word 'fear', actual fear?        “恐惧”那个词,是实际的恐惧吗?
Or the word is not that thing.        抑或,词语并不是事情本身。
Are you getting all too tired?        你们是不是都很累?
You understand my question?        你理解我的问题吗?
Is the word different from the thing?        词语和事情本身是不同的吗?
Or is the word creating that thing, fear?        或者是不是那个词语制造了那个东西,恐惧呢?
Then the word is driving you        那么那个词语就在驱使你,
and the word is creating the fear.        并且那个词语正在制造恐惧。
Or is there fear independent of the word?        或者是否存在独立于那个词的恐惧?
Which is, the word is not the thing.        就是说,词语并不是事情本身。
Right?        对吗?
You understand?        你理解吗?
So have you separated the word from the thing?        所以你将词语和事物本身区分开了吗?
You understand?        你明白了吗?
The tent, the marquee, the word, is not that.        那个帐篷、帐幕,词语并不是那个东西本身。
Right?        对吗?
So when you look at it        所以当你看它的时候,
can you separate the word from the thing?        你能将词语和事物本身区分开来吗?
You understand my question?        你理解我的问题吗?
So have you separated the word from the reaction        所以,你能将词语与你称之为恐惧
which you call fear?        的反应区分开吗?
So which means        那意味着,
are you aware that you are caught in the network of words?        你有没有意识到你被困在语言之网中?
And therefore the words are driving you.        因此是语言在驱使你。
So can you look at the thing without the word        所以你能否不带着那个词来看那个事情,
which means look at that thing without naming it        就是说看事情而不给它命名,
which becomes the word.        命名就成了词语。
I wonder if you understand all this!        我不知道你有没有完全理解这些。
Look, this requires great alertness        你看,这需要你在观察中
great awareness, of your observation.        有高度的警觉、高度的觉知。
It isn't just accepting, 'Yes, I can separate the word        不是仅仅接受,说“是的,我能区分词语,
this and that' - play around.        这个和那个”—— 绕圈子。
But actually to see that you are caught        而是真正看到你受困其中,
your observation is through a word        你的观察是通过一个词进行的,
and therefore the word becomes all important.        从而那个词变得至关重要。
So in realising that you say, all right        所以意识到这些后,你说,好吧,
I will separate the word, put it away, let me look at the thing itself        我会挑出那个词,把它放一边,让我看看事情本身,
not with the word interfering with it        不让那个词从中干扰,
the word with all its connotations, its contents.        抛开那个词及其所有的含义、内容。
Let me look at that thing.        让我看看那个事情本身。
Do you understand?        你明白吗?
I am expending a lot of energy, I hope you are too.        我在花费巨大的能量,希望你也如此。
So, can you look at fear, the word        所以,你能不能看着恐惧,那个词,
the actual sensation without the word?        看着那个实际的感受,而不带着那个词?
Or the word is creating the sensation?        或者那个词正在制造那个感受?
The name, fear, is creating that.        那个名称,恐惧,正在制造那个感受。
You understand?        你理解吗?
You can look at the marquee        你可以看看那个帐篷,
the word and the fact, the tent, differently        词语和事实,那个帐篷,是不同的,
you can separate it and say        你能区分开,并说
'Yes, I can look at it without the word.        “是的,我能不带词语地去看它。
I can see the lines, I can see the posts, without the word'.        我能看到那些线条,我能看到那些柱子,不带着词语看。”
But to do that psychologically is much more        但要从心理上做到那样,要更加……
one has to be extraordinarily alert.        一个人必须非常警觉。
To be so deeply aware of the meaning, the word and the thing.        要深深地认识到词语和事物本身的含义。
Now if you are, then the thing you are looking at        现在,如果你做到了,那么你不带词语去看的那件事情
without the word, is it fear?        是恐惧吗?
You understand what I am trying to say?        你明白我要说的是什么吗?
The reaction which you have named as fear        那个你命名为恐惧的反应,
if you don't name it, is that fear, is there fear?        如果你不给它命名,它是恐惧吗?还存在恐惧吗?
You have come to that after investigating        在探究了、理解了时间和思想之后,
understanding time and thought.        你自己意识到了这一点。
Thought is time because both are movement.        思想是时间,因为两者都是运动。
Time is movement.        时间是运动。
Thought is movement.        思想是运动。
So they are not two separate things.        所以它们不是两件分开的事情。
Thought creates psychological time.        思想制造了心理时间。
So thought has created the word.        所以是思想制造了那个词语。
The original man or the ape or the aborigine        最初的人类或者猿人或土著人,
primate says 'I am afraid' - fear has gone - you follow?        说“我害怕”——你明白吗?
- right down to us - you follow?        恐惧一直延续到我们身上——你理解吗?
And now we are asking: separate the two        那么现在我们要求:将两者区分开,
the word and the sensation, the reaction and look at it        把词语和感受、反应分开,对它进行观察,
observe the reaction without the word.        不带着词语去观察那个反应。
Now when you observe the reaction        那么当你观察那个反应,
is the observer different from the reaction?        观察者与那个反应是不同的吗?
You understand?        你明白吗?
Or they are both the same, the observer is the observed        或者他们都是一回事,观察者就是被观察之物,
the reaction is the observer?        反应就是观察者?
Right?        对吗?
I see you don't understand, some of you.        我发现你们没理解,你们中的一些人。
You have been angry        你生过气,
is that anger different from you?        那个愤怒与你是不同的吗?
You are only aware of that anger        你只是在愤怒的瞬间觉察到那个愤怒,
at the moment of anger you are not        此时你没有了愤怒,
but a second or a minute later you say, 'I have been angry'.        但在一秒钟或一分钟之后你说,“我发火了。”
You have separated yourself from that thing called anger        你将自己与那个被称为愤怒的东西分开了,
and so there is a division.        所以就有了分裂。
Similarly (laughs)        同样地,(笑)
Is the reaction which you call fear different from you?        那个你称之为恐惧的反应与你是不同的吗?
Obviously it is not.        显然不是。
So you and that reaction are the same.        所以你和那个反应是一回事。
When you realise that, you don't fight it, you are that.        当你意识到这点,你就不会与它抗争,你就是它。
Right?        对吗?
I wonder if you see it.        我想知道你有没有明白这点。
Then a totally different action takes place        然后一种完全不同的行动就会发生,
which is, before, you have used positive action with regard to fear        以前你采取积极的行动去克服恐惧,
say, 'I must not be afraid, I will deny it        说,“我不能害怕,我要拒绝它,
I'll control it, I must do this and that about it        我会控制它,我必须这样和那样做,
go to a psychologist' - you know, all the rest of it.        去看一个心理医生”——你知道,诸如此类。
Now when you realise, when there's the fact - not realise        现在当你意识到,当存在事实——不是意识到,
when there is the fact that you are the reaction        当存在你就是那个反应这样的事实,
there is no you separate from that reaction.        你就没有与那个反应分开。
Then you can't do anything, can you?        那么你就什么也做不了,是吧?
I wonder if you realise, you can't do anything.        我想知道你是不是明白了,你不能做任何事情。
Therefore a negation, a negative        所以通过否定,一种否定式的、
a non-positive observation is the ending of fear.        非肯定式的观察就是恐惧的终结。
Right?        对吗?
What time is it? Q:  One o'clock.        几点钟了?问:一点钟。
K:  Forgive me for talking an hour and a half, I didn't realise it.        克:请原谅我讲了一个半小时,我没意识到。
I hope you aren't bored        我希望你没有厌烦,
you aren't stiff sitting in the same position.        希望你没有在同一个位置死板地坐着。
Q:  Don't be afraid. We enjoyed it. (Laughter)        问:不用担心。我们很享受。(笑声)
K:  Good. We will meet tomorrow again.        克:好,我们明天再见。
Q:  Thank you.        问:谢谢你。
(Clapping)        (掌声)
K:  Please don't clap. It isn't worth it.        克:请不要鼓掌。不值得。
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