During my encounters with people many asked me towrite of my dialogues with Krishnamurti, even knowing I would be retrievingthem only from my memory since only a few had been recorded. So it was that Istarted to think of writing some of my memories down.
Nevertheless, some other friends felt that it wasunnecessary to write my memories since Krishnamurti had done such a beautifulwork of exposition of life and truth for mankind with his own books, videos andaudiotapes.
I hope that anyone who reads "My Dialogueswith Krishnamurti" feels the need to read Krishnamurti himself.
我只是希望任何读了“我与克里希那穆提的谈话”后会想要自己去读克氏。
I have almost stopped reading, and if I do it isonly to read "Krishnamurti Journals" or "Commentaries OnLiving" by Krishnamurti and "Collected Works of Krishnamurti"(17 volumes Kendall-Hunt) (1933-1967).
Political contradiction in Argentina wasalways high. It came to one of its highest points, though, by the end of August1972.
阿根廷总是不断充满着政治斗争。在1972 的八月末，冲突达到了顶点。
During this time a group of leftist, guerrilla menand women were killed while in jail at Trelew-Argentina, and I was horrified tohear that one of them had been a friend of the family.
在这一段时间里一部分极左派的游击队男女被杀害在监狱里，我很震惊的发现其中一个是我们家的朋友。
I started to get phone calls prompting me to takesides in the armed struggle: "If you are not for the left you are for theright", a man's voice had told me on the phone before he hung-up while Iwas taking care of a recently born baby in Villada, Argentina,Aug. 23rd 1972.
The following day I went to Buenos Aires to get a visa to the U.S.A. (1972).
第二天我到Buenos机场去办理到美国的签证。（1972年）
If man looses respect for life we are all at riskfrom each other. Man becomes his own executioner.
当人对生活失去敬意我们就会成为彼此的威胁。人变成他自己的刽子手。
Only after two years I got a temporary visa toenter the U.S.A.Every Argentinian was suspicious then.
不到两年我就获得准入美国的签证。那时候每个阿根廷人都是可疑的。
I stopped over in Puerto Rico.There was a man there I wanted to meet: Enrique Biascoechea.
我在波多黎各停了下来。那有一个我想见的人：Enrique Biascoechea.
I did meet him. He was dying. He had been a friendof Krishnamurti since age nine.
我和他见了面。他快要死了。他从九岁起就是克里希那穆提的朋友。
He wrote a letter to Krishnamurti telling him thatI had left behind my parents, two baby sons, possessions, friends, profession,comfort, and status in order to travel to meet with him. That was in June 1974.Enrique died in Nov 1974.
After reaching the U.S. I soon found myself working 16hours a day as a resident physician in Pennsylvania.I needed a dictionary to dictate my notes. Of the other eight hours of the dayI spent four in the basement to study medicine in English to revalidate mylicense. I slept three or four hours a day and ate only once a day, takingcoffee in the morning and again at lunchtime simply to keep myself awake.
Sometimes I wondered how my body could bear somuch abuse!
有时候我都奇怪我的身体是如何负担这种过度劳累的。
I got letters from Argentina: "Misery. My familyand my friends kept disappearing".
我收到来自阿根廷的信：“不幸。我的家庭和朋友在不断消失”。
I had given up hope to meet Krishnamurti when Igot a letter from Mrs. Zimbalist, dated Jan. 5th 1975 in Ojai, California telling me I had a personalinterview with Krishnamurti on march 23rd at 4 P.M. at the Huntington Hotel inSan Francisco, California.
Mrs. Zimbalist volunteered her time forKrishnamurti as a devoted secretary. She is the widow of the late Sam Zimbalistwho had produced the reknowned film "Ben Hur".
Krishnamurti came after five minutes. I stood upfrom the armchair to shake his hand. He looked smaller than I expected him tobe. He wore an old blue jacket. He sat in front of me with nothing in betweenthe two chairs. Mrs. Zimbalist left silently.
We sat there looking at each other. I will neverbe able to describe that moment when Krishnamurti was gazing at me.
我们坐在那里看着对方。我永远无法形容克里希那穆提凝视我的那一刻的感觉。
I felt at the same time all the love I had feltfor my parents, my sons, my girlfriends, my friends (dead or alive)...
我感觉到我体验过的所有的爱，对我的父母，子女，妻子和朋友，无论活着的或已经离去的，在那一刻…
There was long silence.
许久的沉默。
Krishnamurti said: Biascoechea says you are readyto work for the Foundation.
克里希那穆提说：Biascoechea 说你已经准备好为基金会工作了。
I said: I may not be wise or free enough for that.
我说：我可能还不够智慧或者自由。
Krishnamurti: You will.
克：你会的。
Ruben: What would the work imply?
Ruben：这个工作包括什么？
Krishnamurti: Publishing books, videos and tapes.
克：出版书籍，录像和磁带。
Ruben: That implies managing money.
Ruben：那意味着管理金钱。
Krishnamurti: Millions of dollars.
克：数百万美元。
Ruben: That horrifies me. I'm not ready for that.I thought I would have to travel with you, type your lectures from recorded tapes....things like that.
Krishnamurti: (Laughing) You can do more than thatDr...
克：（笑）你可以做的更多…大夫
Ruben: My name is Ruben Ernesto Feldman-Gonzalez.
Ruben：我的名字叫Ruben Ernesto Feldman-Gonzalez
Krishnamurti: That's confusing, may I call you Dr.Gonzalez?
克：太长了，我可以叫您Gonzalez 医生么？
Ruben: Of course, but my real name is Anger.
Ruben：当然，但是我的真名是Anger。
Krishnamurti: (touching my left knee) Ah! I'm gladyou don't wear a mask like so many that come to me pretending to be saints.
克：（碰我的左膝）啊！我真高兴你没有像很多人来见我时那样带着圣人的面具。
Ruben: I'm far from that. I feel a completerepugnance for the so-called political situation of Argentina, my country of birth, andeven for the way my profession is practiced. I'm a pediatric surgeon. I hadstarted to study psychiatry (July 1974) in Pennsylvania to see why the world has goneso crazy. Nevertheless I'm not impressed, the approach to treatment inpsychiatry is conventional... standardized. I'll leave psychiatry too. I don'tknow what I will do.
Ruben: I never thought you would give me concreteadvice like that. It sounds absurd though. Changing psychiatry sounds likechanging the color of the crickets of the world.
Krishnamurti: You have to meet Dr. David Bohm in London. Let's go theresoon.
克：你要去见见伦敦的David Bohm博士。我们很快就去。
Ruben: I wish I could, perhaps if I get a loan.
Ruben：我希望我能去，如果我能贷到一笔款。
Krishnamurti: No! Don't ask for a loan. You'llmeet him soon anyway.
克：不！不要去贷款。你很快就能见到他。
Ruben: I need to make changes. I have no peace.Friends have disappeared in Argentina.Everything seems so chaotic and corrupt....
Ruben：我需要做一些改变。在我心里没有安宁。在阿根廷朋友接连死去。所有事情仿佛都肮脏混乱…
Krishnamurti: (smiling) You need exercise(Krishnamurti touched my belly with the tip of his left index finger).
克：（微笑）你需要一些锻炼（克里希那穆提用左手的食指尖碰了碰我的腹部）
Ruben: I work 16 hours a day and then I have tosit to study for four hours a day before I go to sleep. All this to renew mymedical license in the USA.
Ruben：我每天工作16个小时并且不得不在入睡前学习4个小时。为了延长医疗执照。
Krishnamurti: That's an excuse. Take care ofyourself. You need exercise. You look like a bull.
克：那是借口。照顾好你自己。你需要锻炼。你看起来像一头牛。
Ruben: Sometimes I feel that I need to share my understandingwith people around the world. What do you say to that?
Ruben：有时候我感觉想要同全世界的人们分享我的体会。你对此怎么看？
Krishnamurti: You speak.
克：你讲。
A very long silence followed. I had expected himto tell me to "stay put" and spend the rest of my life in silentmeditation. With very few words he was the perfect mirror for my owncontradictions to emerge and be clearly seen.
He insisted: The Foundation in Puerto Rico has no head. I hope you will take it (he grabbed my leftknee).
他坚持道：基金会在波多黎各没有首脑。我希望你能承担它。（他抓住了我的左膝）
Ruben: Krishnaji, when I was with Biascoecheaeverything seemed so easy. Now I see I don't have the peace of mind, the rightskills nor the freedom (the sons and two parents to feed) to dedicate myselfsensibly to such an important and difficult task. It is certainly no picnic.
Krishnamurti discussed several items regarding theFoundation's translations, people like Salvado Sendra, Vimala Thakar, personaland ideological struggles within the Foundations, etc.
Ruben: I'm eager to meet Salvador and Vimala... but people from theFourth Path are trying to mix what you say with what others have said and arequite willing to control the Foundations.
Krishnamurti: That has been going on all the timeand not only with them. The Fourth Path is a path of violence which reinforcesthe ego and the wish to control life and its course. Do not touch it. The firstinsight is to drop everything non-essential for the total liberation ofmankind.
Ruben: Now that you mention the non-essential....Why did you allow the biography of yours written by Lutyens to be published?It's gossipy and superficial, and it may not be right selling "At the Feetof the Master" ... with your name on it.
Ruben: How would you recommend your books to beread, and in what order?
Ruben：你建议你的书应该怎样读，以什么顺序？
Krishnamurti: Do not read them like a novel. Readslowly as if your life was in every word and every sentence. Start with thelast one and then if there is an interest go backwards through the first one.
I expected a longer lecture but that was all hesaid. Again a long silence. The silence was alive, the silence of two alertfriends seeing together the same thing at the same time.
He stood up and said. "Excuse me Dr.Gonzalez, I'll prepare some tea for you".
他站起来然后说：“打扰一下，Gonzalez医生，我为你准备了茶水。”
At the kitchen in the big suite he whisperedsomething with Mrs. Zimbalist who was sitting there.
在大套房的厨房里，他同坐在那儿的Zimbalist夫人小声说了些什么。
He came back with a cup of tea. He said: "Teaof roses for you".
他拿着一杯茶回来，他说：“给你准备的玫瑰茶。”
I sipped it, but I didn't like it. I left it onthe little table beside us.
我尝了一下，但是我不喜欢。我把它放在我们中间的小桌子上。
Ruben: Can we talk about meditation?
Ruben: 我们能谈谈冥想么？
Krishnamurti: Is there anything else?
克：还有别的可谈么？
Ruben: Well, the very word meditation is used bygurus of all kinds to make money, sell silly books, techniques, pillows,crystals, mantras, and incense.
Ruben：冥想这个词被各种上师用来赚钱，贩卖各种可笑的书，技巧，枕头，水晶，咒语，焚香等等。
Krishnamurti: I have been using the word for 50years. I can't change it now. People will have to see I use the word with adifferent meaning. I do not use the word meditation with its traditionalmeaning!
Ruben: What about using the expression"Unitary Perception" instead.
Runben：用“整体觉知”这个表达方式代替怎么样。
Krishnamurti: You use it.
克：你可以这么用。
(Krishnamurti said he would not use the wordmeditation anymore during his last talk in England in 1985, ten years later.)
（克里希纳穆提十年后在1985年英国最后的讲演中说他不会再用冥想这个词了。）
Krishnamurti: Why not live very simply? Call itmeditation or Unitary Perception. Self protection and self aggrandizementthrough money making and success have to end in order to live simply. To livesimply is to live intelligently, without an observer in observation. If youbelieve you have to go back to Argentinato be loyal to some concept of yours you are not simple. If you are angry youare not simple. If you are full of sorrow you can't love anyone. Can you bespontaneous and simply act with not too much planning?
Ruben: You are not saying I have to remain aloneand live in poverty and silence.
Ruben：你并不是说我只能独自一人，生活在贫穷和寂静里。
Krishnamurti: Would that be simple? Would you beescaping from life? The consummation of truth is not to be successful orwealthy... but do you want complete truth? Look for success or money and you'llfind frustration. Look for truth and you'll receive total peace of mind andjoy. Will you be one of the few? Or will you continue being one of the manyworshippers of money and success?
After a long silence, he said: "Dr. Gonzalez,your tea must be cold already, finish it!"
经过一段很长的寂静，他说：“Gonzalez医生，你的茶一定凉了，喝了它！”
I didn't have the courage to say no and I did finish it silently.
我不敢拒绝，安静的喝光了它。
He said: "Let's meet tomorrow at eight A.M.
他说：“我们明早8点再见面。”
Krishnamurti went with me to the door, opened itfor me and smiled lovingly saying: "Good bye".
克里希纳穆提送我到门口，打开门，深情微笑着说：“再见。”
I said: What noun should be applied to what youteach-- "message", "gospel",..., or what?
我说：你讲授的东西应该用什么名词表示 – “讯息”，“福音”… 还是什么？
Krishnamurti said: Call it "theteachings". Let's meet tomorrow at eight A.M., right here.
克里希纳穆提说：叫它“教育”(the teachings)。我们明天8点见面，就在这里。
I spend the rest of the afternoon by myself in myroom, which I had rented at the same hotel where Krishnamurti was staying. Ifelt like a Condor for the rest of the day. I met Krishnamurti by chance in thelobby that evening. I walked with him for awhile.
我租的房间和克所住的在同一间旅馆，那个下午的其余时间我独自一个人待在自己的房间里。一整天觉得觉得像鹰一样敏锐。晚上的时候我在大厅偶然遇到克，我们一起散步了一阵子。
I saw a couple of very beautiful girls.
我看见了两个很漂亮的女孩。
I said: "God, how beautiful they are".
我说：“上帝，她们真美。”
He said: "Only well fed".
克说：“只是营养充足罢了。”
I said: "Krishnaji, I felt like a Condor thewhole afternoon, full of peace and joy and love. I think it's because I spentsome time with you."
