Ruben Ernesto Feldman-Gonzalez与克的对话（从海洋中挣身）——fqzhao译

Sue

Untie The Ocean   

从海洋中挣身

(Intimate dialogues with Krishnamurti) Memorized after the encounter--not recorded on audiotape.

(偶遇克里希纳穆提后的谈话) 不是根据录音带，而是凭记忆写出。

I met Krishnamurti on March the 23rd 1975 in San Francisco, California. I have already written about that. My last name is Feldman Gonzalez but Krishnamurti addressed me only as Dr. Gonzalez.

1975年3月23日，加州的三藩市我会见了克里希纳穆提。前面已经提到了。我的姓是Feldman Gonzalez，但克里希纳穆提只用Gonzalez医生称呼我。

March 24, 1975 (Huntington Hotel - San Francisco, California)

1975年3月24日 （加州，三藩市，亨廷顿旅馆）

Krishnamurti: Sorry, I made you wait. I was doing some Hatha Yoga.

克里希纳穆提：抱歉，让你久等了。我刚才在做哈达瑜伽。

Ruben: No problem. Thank you for receiving me again. I would like to discuss the fact that you are the instructor of the world (or the Second Coming).

Ruben：没关系。谢谢您能再次见我。我想讨论一下你是世界导师的事情（或者是世界导师的再来）。

Krishnamurti: You worry about the irrelevant.

克里希纳穆提：你在为不相干的事情担心。

Ruben: It is relevant for me, because if you are the Instructor of the World, then I want to be an apostle.

Ruben: 对我来说不是不相干的，因为如果你是世界导师的话，我希望我能成为一个使徒。

Krishnamurti: There are no more apostles, Dr. Gonzalez. It is of critical urgency that human beings change radically. They have to detach themselves from the content of mankind's consciousness, they have to live without touching the stream of growing vulgarity and violence. Egocentric activity has to end, the desire for profit, power and prestige. One needs to learn to live psychologically alone, that is to be content without depending on anybody or anything.

克里希纳穆提：不再有使徒了，Gonzalez医生。最为紧迫的事情是让人类彻底的改变。他们必须从人类意识的内容中脱离，他们必须让生活不沾染增长的罪恶和暴力。对财富，权利，和名誉的欲望和自我中心的行为必须结束。 一个人需要学会心理上独立的生活，也就是不依赖任何人和任何东西就可以获得满足。

Ruben: That they detach themselves from the content of mankind's consciousness?... then, how does one live?

Ruben：他们从人类意识内容里脱离？…那么，人怎么生活？

Krishnamurti: You don't become comatose, you don't enter into a drug or alcohol induced trance, you don't live in a state of hypnosis, nor asleep even while awake. You live in complete attention. Are you aware that observation is attention?

克里希纳穆提：你不会不省人事，也不会进入嗑药或醉酒的恍惚状态，你不会被催眠，或者昏昏欲睡。你会生活在完全的注意力里。你有没有意识到，观察就是注意力？

Ruben: Fundamental action.

Ruben：基础性的行动。

Krishnamurti: Observation is action. To observe totally doesn't mean to be negligent nor socially indifferent. If you observe totally, each one of your actions changes in nature. You free yourself from the choking grip of traditional memory and you also start to think sanely and freely. So there is total observation and new thought and action.

克里希纳穆提：观察就是行动。完全的观察并不意味着疏忽大意或者漠不关心。如果你完全的观察，你的每一个行动在本质上都会改变。你把自己从传统记忆的牢牢掌控中解放出来，便开始能够健全和自由的思考。于是便有完全的观察还有新的思想和行动。

(We spent a long time in silence)

（我们沉默了很久）

Ruben: Are you greater than Jesus?

Ruben：你比基督更伟大么？

Krishnamurti: Do you want me to say "yes"?

克里希纳穆提：你是不是想让我说“是的”？

Ruben: Tell me what do you think?

Ruben：能不能告诉我你怎么想？

Krishnamurti: Mankind is not the same. In the last 2000 years there have been three wars every year in the world and there has been a consequent degradation of human beings, the son of humanity can not be the same.

克里希纳穆提：人类已不再相同了。在过去的两千年里每年世界上都会发生3场战争， 人类已经随之发生了退化，人类的子孙不会和很久以前一样了。

Ruben: You are talking of the Son of Man (with capital letters) aren't you? You are talking of the Greek "uios tou antropon" (the son of man). Aren't you?

Ruben：你在说人的子孙（用大写）不是么？你说的是希腊语“uios tou antropon”（人类的子孙）。不是么？

Krishnamurti: The son of humanity is today the son of a degraded mankind. Then... what do you do?

克里希纳穆提：今天人类的子孙就是退化了的人类的子孙。那么…你该做什么呢？

Ruben: I listen to Krishnamurti.

Ruben：我倾听克里希纳穆提。

Krishnamurti: For how long?

克里希纳穆提：要听多久？

Ruben: Until I understand and radical change occurs.

Ruben:直到我理解了，并且发生了彻底的改变。

Krishnamurti: Be a light to yourself. Stop procrastination. Throw away the content of consciousness. There has to be pure consciousness, pure awareness, pure listening.

克里希纳穆提：用自己的光照亮自己。不要再拖延。丢弃意识的内容。必须有纯粹的意识，纯粹的觉知，纯粹的倾听。

Ruben: When I asked you whether I could speak publicly you said, "you speak".

Ruben：当我问您我是否可以公开的演说你说，“你讲”。

Krishnamurti: You speak. "That" is not only for you.

克里希纳穆提：你讲。“它”并不是你一个人的。

Ruben: Can you tell me more about talking to people about all this?

Ruben：关于（如何）与人们探讨这一切，您能再告诉我多一些么？

Krishnamurti: You talk and expect no-thing.

克里希纳穆提：谈论而不期待什么东西。

(LONG PAUSE) (In vital silence) Krishnamurti had said "no-thing", he had not said "nothing".

（长时间的停顿）（在活泼的沉默中）克里希纳穆提说“不期待东西”，他并没有说“什么都不期待”

Krishnamurti: It's time for lunch Dr. Gonzalez.

克里希纳穆提：到午饭的时间了，Gonzalez医生。