标题: 关于醒与睡以及梦 [打印本页] 作者: Sue 时间: 2009-12-23 22:41 标题: 关于醒与睡以及梦
But when you have observed very closely your waking hours, all your self-centred activities, the fearful, the anxious, the guilty, when you are attentive to that all day then you will see when you sleep, you have no dreams. The mind has been watching every moment of thought, attentive to its every word, if you do it, you will see the beauty of it - not the tired boredom of watching, but the beauty of watching; you will see then that there is attention in sleep. And meditation, the thing that we have talked about during this hour, becomes extraordinarily important and worthwhile, full of dignity and grace and beauty. When you understand what attention is, not only during waking hours but also during sleep, then the whole of the mind is totally awake.
但是当你醒着的时候非常仔细地观察了你所有的自我中心行为，恐惧，焦虑，负疚，当你整个白天对这些都全然关注到的时候，那么你会发现在你睡觉的时候，你没有梦。心智已然看到了思想的每个瞬间，注意到了它的每句话，如果你做到了，你会发现它的美-不是枯燥无味的观察，而是观察的美；你会发现在睡眠中也会有注意力。而冥想，这件我们这个小时探讨的事情，变得极为重要和有价值，充满了庄严，优雅和美。当你理解了注意力是什么，不仅是在醒着的时候，而且在睡眠中，那么整个心智就是全然清醒的。
摘自BEYOND VIOLENCE PART II CHAPTER 3 SAN DIEGO STATE COLLEGE 4TH PUBLIC TALK 9TH APRIL 1970 'MEDITATION' 作者: Sue 时间: 2009-12-23 22:42
So silence comes about when there is profound attention, not only at the conscious level but also at the deeper levels of consciousness. Dreams and sleep are of great importance; it is part of meditation to be awake in sleep, to be aware, attentive while the mind and the body - the organism - is asleep.
所以当不仅在意识表层而且在更深的意识层面有那种深刻的全神贯注时，寂静就来临了。梦和睡眠就变得非常重要；在睡眠中保持清醒是冥想的一部分，在头脑和身体-有机体-睡着的时候觉知，保有注意力。
And during sleep there are various kinds of superficial dreams, not even worth thinking about - dreams that have no meaning at all. ... Then there is the dream which has meaning, and that meaning can be understood as it is being dreamt. This is only possible when during the day you are attentive, watching, listening to every movement of your thoughts, motives, feelings and ambitions. Watching does not tire you, does not exhaust you, if you do not correct what you watch. If you say, `This must not be' or, `It must be', then you get tired and bored. But if you watch choicelessly, are aware without like or dislike during the day, then when you dream and those dreams have some significance, at the very moment of dreaming - all dreams are active, there is always some action taking place - that very action is understood. So when you have done all this, the mind in sleep becomes extraordinarily awake and you do not have to go to an analyser of dreams. That wakefulness of the mind sees something which the conscious mind can never see.
睡眠中有很多种肤浅的梦-都不值得去想-那些梦没有任何意义。...而还有些有意义的梦，做这样的梦的时候，就能理解其意义了。这只有在白天你对思想的每个活动、动机、感受、野心都注意观察和倾听的时候才可能发生。观察并不会让你疲惫和劳累，只要你不想纠正你所看到的。如果你说，“不能这样”或者“必须这样”，那么你就会精疲力倦。但是当你白天毫无选择地观察，没有好恶地觉知，那么当你做梦的时候，那些梦就是有意义的，在做梦的那一刻-所有的梦都是活生生的，总是有某种行动在发生-就理解了那行动本身。所以当你做到所有这些的时候，睡眠中的心智变得极为清醒，你不必去找解梦者。那警醒的心智会看到醒着的头脑永远无法看到的东西。
摘自BEYOND VIOLENCE PART III CHAPTER 3 LONDON 4TH PUBLIC TALK 30TH MAY 1970 'THE RELIGIOUS MIND'作者: Sue 时间: 2010-1-1 09:15
K: So, in my enquiry I am asking, am I awake? What does it mean to be awake? Not awake to what is happening politically, economically, socially, that is obvious. But awake. What does it mean? I am not awake if I have any burden. You follow, sir? There is no sense of being awake when there is any kind of fear. If I live with an illusion, if my actions are neurotic, there is no state of being awake. So I'm enquiring and I can only enquire by becoming very sensitive to what is happening in me, outside me. So is the mind aware during the day completely to what is happening inside, outside of me.
克：所以，在质询中，我问，我是清醒的吗？清醒意味着什么？不是清醒地知道政治上、经济上、社会上发生着什么，这是很明显的。而是，清醒。它是什么意思？如果我有任何负担，我就不能清醒。你明白吗，先生？有任何形式的恐惧，就不会有清醒的感觉。如果我活在幻象里，如果我的行为是神经质的，就没有清醒的状态。所以我在质询，我只有通过对我的内心和外在发生着的一切变得很敏锐，才能进行质询。所以，心智在白天是不是完全清醒，知道自己的内心和外在发生的一切事情。
A: Upon every instant.
安：每一刻都是。
K: That's it. Otherwise I am not awake.
克：就是这样。否则我就是不清醒的。
出处：SAN DIEGO, CALIFORNIA 28TH FEBRUARY 1974 17TH CONVERSATION WITH DR. ALLAN W. ANDERSON 'MEDITATION - 1'作者: Sue 时间: 2010-1-1 09:40
K: Of course. Am I awake? Or is the past so alive that it is dictating my life in the present? Therefore I am asleep.
克：当然。我醒着吗？还是过去太活跃了，它在支配着我现在的生活？于是我睡着了。
A: Would you say that again? It's very important.
安：你能再说一遍吗？这点很重要。
K: I don't know how, I'll put it differently. Am I awake. Is my mind burdened with the past? And therefore bearing a burden I'm not awake to the present.
克：我不知道该怎么说，我换个说法。我是否清醒。我的心智是否背着过去的重负？而背负着重负，我就不能清醒地面对现在。
A: Not awake in the present, exactly.
安：现在无法保持清醒，确实。
K: Not awake as I am talking.
克：即使我在说话也是不清醒的。
A: That's right.
安：对。
K: Because I'm talking from the background of my past, of my experience, of my failures, my hurts, my depressions, therefore the past is dominating and putting me to sleep now.
克：因为我讲话出于的背景是我的过去，我的经验，我的失败，我的伤害，我的绝望，所以过去在当下控制着我，把我投入沉睡。
A: To sleep. It's a narcotic.
安：睡去。这是种麻醉剂。
K: Narcotic. Therefore what am I to do with the past? You follow, sir?
克：麻醉剂。所以我要拿过去怎么办？你跟上了吗，先生？
A: Yes, I do. Yes, yes, yes.
安：是的，我跟上了。是的。
K: Past is necessary.
克：过去是必要的。
A: Of course, yes, the whole field of knowledge.
安：当然，是的，整个知识领域。
K: Knowledge. Past is necessary. But when the past covers the present, then I am asleep. So is it possible to know what the past is and not let it overflow into the present? That question and the reality of it brings its own discipline. Therefore I say, yes, I know what it means. I can live, I can keep awake totally and widely and yet operate in the field of knowledge. So there is no contradiction. I don't know if I am conveying it ?
克：知识。过去是必要的。但是当过去掩盖了现在，那么我就睡着了。所以，有没有可能知道过去是什么，但是不让它淹没现在？这个问题以及它的现实会带来它自己的纪律。因此我说，是的，我知道它是什么意思。我能完全清醒地生活，保持宽广的清醒状态，同时又在知识的领域里运作。那么就没有了矛盾。我不知道我是不是表达清楚了？
A: Oh you are. You are, you are.
安：哦，是的。你说清楚了。
出处同上。作者: Sue 时间: 2010-1-1 10:55
这段也非常有启发，译文回头补上。
K: See what is taking place. Then what is sleep? I have understood now what is means to be awake. That means I am watching. I am aware. I am aware without any choice, choiceless awareness, watching, looking, observing, hearing, what is going on and what is going outside, what people tell me, whether they flatter me, or they insult me. I am watching. So I am very aware. Now, what is sleep? I know what is sleep: resting, shutting your eyes, going to bed at 9 or 10 or later. What is sleep? And in sleep, dreams. What are dreams? I don't know what the others say. I am not interested in what the others say. You follow, sir? Because my enquiry is to find out whether meditation covers the whole field of life, not just one segment.
A: My enquiry is from the point where I say, I don't know.
K: I don't know. That is right. So I'll proceed. I dream. There are dreams. What are dreams? Why should I dream? So I have to find out why I dream. What are dreams? Dreams are the continuation of my daily sleep. Which is, I haven't understood - see what is taking place, sir - I have not understood my daily life. I watch my daily life. My daily life is in disorder; so I go to sleep and the disorder continues. And the brain says, I must have order otherwise I can't function. So if the mind doesn't put order during the day, the brain tries to bring order during the night.
A: Through the dream.
K: Through the dreams, through intimations. When I awake I say, yes I have a certain feeling this must be done. So, see what takes place. When the mind is awake during the day it has order, it establishes order, in the sense we have discussed previously.
A: Yes. In that sense of order.
K: Order which comes out of the understanding of disorder. The negation of disorder is order, not the following of a blueprint.
A: No.
K: Or a pattern, all that's disorder. So during the day, the mind, the brain has established order. So when I sleep the brain isn't working out how to establish order in itself in order to be secure. Therefore the brain becomes rested.
A: I see.
K: Therefore the brain becomes quiet, sleeps without dreams. It may have superficial dreams when you eat wrongly, you know, all that kind of thing. That I am not talking about. So, sleep means regeneration of the brain. I don't know if you follow?
A: Yes, I do. I wonder if I could ask you a question about dreams here, that might introduce a distinction between dreams in terms of their nature. Sometimes we report that we've had a dream which points to future event.
K: That's another thing.
A: That's entirely different from what you are talking about.
K: Yes, yes.
A: So we could say that...
K: Sir, that, I think we can understand that very simply. You know the other day we were walking high up in the hills in India and there was a river flowing down below. And two boats were coming in the opposite direction and you knew where they were going to meet.
A: Of course.
K: When you go high enough you see the boats coming together at a precise point.
A: But that's very objective. That has nothing to do with my subjective unfinished business.
K: No.
A: Which is the other thing you were talking about.
K: That's right.
A: Yes, I quite see, I quite see. Right. What an amazing thing it would be to have all your business done and go to sleep. And if order should present you with...
K: Yes, sir.
A: ...an understanding.
K: Of course.
A: Then the understanding never stops from waking through sleeping.
K: That's right.
A: Yes. Of course. Of course. Marvelous. Marvelous
K: So you see, that way the brain is regenerated, keeps young. No conflict. Conflict wears out the brain.
A: Yes.
K: So, sleep means not only order, rejuvenation, innocence, but also in sleep there are states in which there is absolutely freedom to enquire, to see into something which you have never seen with your eyes, physical eyes.
A: Yes.
K: Of course.
A: Yes
K: So we have described sufficiently into that. I see that. So do I - does the mind live that kind of life during the day?
A: That would be rare.
K: Otherwise it is not meditation.
A: Otherwise it is not meditation, of course, of course, of course.
K: And I don't want to play a game, a hypocritical game, because I am deceiving nobody. I am deceiving myself and I don't want to deceive myself. I don't see the point of deceiving myself because I don't want to be a great man, little man, big man, success. That's all too infantile. So I say, am I living that? If not, what is happening? And it gives me energy to live that way because I have no burden of the others. I don't know?作者: Sue 时间: 2010-1-1 22:19
