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标题: Ruben Ernesto Feldman-Gonzalez与克的对话(前言)——fqzhao译 [打印本页]

作者: Sue    时间: 2010-8-29 21:35     标题: Ruben Ernesto Feldman-Gonzalez与克的对话(前言)——fqzhao译

During my encounters with people many asked me towrite of my dialogues with Krishnamurti, even knowing I would be retrievingthem only from my memory since only a few had been recorded. So it was that Istarted to think of writing some of my memories down.


Nevertheless, some other friends felt that it wasunnecessary to write my memories since Krishnamurti had done such a beautifulwork of exposition of life and truth for mankind with his own books, videos andaudiotapes.


I hope that anyone who reads "My Dialogueswith Krishnamurti" feels the need to read Krishnamurti himself.


I have almost stopped reading, and if I do it isonly to read "Krishnamurti Journals" or "Commentaries OnLiving" by Krishnamurti and "Collected Works of Krishnamurti"(17 volumes Kendall-Hunt) (1933-1967).

我已经基本上不阅读任何书籍,除了“克里希那穆提日志”(Krishnamurti Journals)或“生命的注释”,还有“克里希那穆提作品集”(17Kendall-Hunt

Looking For The North

Political contradiction in Argentina wasalways high. It came to one of its highest points, though, by the end of August1972.

阿根廷总是不断充满着政治斗争。在1972 的八月末,冲突达到了顶点。

During this time a group of leftist, guerrilla menand women were killed while in jail at Trelew-Argentina, and I was horrified tohear that one of them had been a friend of the family.


I started to get phone calls prompting me to takesides in the armed struggle: "If you are not for the left you are for theright", a man's voice had told me on the phone before he hung-up while Iwas taking care of a recently born baby in Villada, Argentina,Aug. 23rd 1972.


The following day I went to Buenos Aires to get a visa to the U.S.A. (1972).


If man looses respect for life we are all at riskfrom each other. Man becomes his own executioner.


Only after two years I got a temporary visa toenter the U.S.A.Every Argentinian was suspicious then.


I stopped over in Puerto Rico.There was a man there I wanted to meet: Enrique Biascoechea.

我在波多黎各停了下来。那有一个我想见的人:Enrique Biascoechea.

I did meet him. He was dying. He had been a friendof Krishnamurti since age nine.


He wrote a letter to Krishnamurti telling him thatI had left behind my parents, two baby sons, possessions, friends, profession,comfort, and status in order to travel to meet with him. That was in June 1974.Enrique died in Nov 1974.

他写信给克里希那穆提,告诉他我离开了父母,两个年幼的孩子,事业,地位,财产,朋友,只为了见他。那时是19746月,Enrique 死于同年11月。

After reaching the U.S. I soon found myself working 16hours a day as a resident physician in Pennsylvania.I needed a dictionary to dictate my notes. Of the other eight hours of the dayI spent four in the basement to study medicine in English to revalidate mylicense. I slept three or four hours a day and ate only once a day, takingcoffee in the morning and again at lunchtime simply to keep myself awake.


Sometimes I wondered how my body could bear somuch abuse!


I got letters from Argentina: "Misery. My familyand my friends kept disappearing".


I had given up hope to meet Krishnamurti when Igot a letter from Mrs. Zimbalist, dated Jan. 5th 1975 in Ojai, California telling me I had a personalinterview with Krishnamurti on march 23rd at 4 P.M. at the Huntington Hotel inSan Francisco, California.

那时我已经放弃会见克的希望了,直到 197515接到Zimbalist夫人的来信,得知3 23日下午4点休斯顿饭店,我可以对克里希那穆提单独会面。

Mrs. Zimbalist volunteered her time forKrishnamurti as a devoted secretary. She is the widow of the late Sam Zimbalistwho had produced the reknowned film "Ben Hur".

Zimbalist夫人主动的承担起克里希那穆提秘书的责任。他是执导了有名的电影"BenHur" Sam Zimbalist的孀妻。

At four P.M. on March 23rd 1975 sharp I knocked atKrishnamurti's door. Mrs. Zimbalist did everything to make me feel comfortable.

1975 323日下午四点,我来到了克里希那穆提的门前。Zimbalist夫人尽一切所能以让我觉得舒适。

Krishnamurti came after five minutes. I stood upfrom the armchair to shake his hand. He looked smaller than I expected him tobe. He wore an old blue jacket. He sat in front of me with nothing in betweenthe two chairs. Mrs. Zimbalist left silently.


We sat there looking at each other. I will neverbe able to describe that moment when Krishnamurti was gazing at me.


I felt at the same time all the love I had feltfor my parents, my sons, my girlfriends, my friends (dead or alive)...


There was long silence.

Krishnamurti said: Biascoechea says you are readyto work for the Foundation.

克里希那穆提说:Biascoechea 说你已经准备好为基金会工作了。

I said: I may not be wise or free enough for that.


Krishnamurti: You will.


Ruben: What would the work imply?


Krishnamurti: Publishing books, videos and tapes.


Ruben: That implies managing money.


Krishnamurti: Millions of dollars.


Ruben: That horrifies me. I'm not ready for that.I thought I would have to travel with you, type your lectures from recorded tapes....things like that.


Krishnamurti: (Laughing) You can do more than thatDr...


Ruben: My name is Ruben Ernesto Feldman-Gonzalez.

Ruben我的名字叫Ruben Ernesto Feldman-Gonzalez

Krishnamurti: That's confusing, may I call you Dr.Gonzalez?

克:太长了,我可以叫您Gonzalez 医生么?

Ruben: Of course, but my real name is Anger.


Krishnamurti: (touching my left knee) Ah! I'm gladyou don't wear a mask like so many that come to me pretending to be saints.


Ruben: I'm far from that. I feel a completerepugnance for the so-called political situation of Argentina, my country of birth, andeven for the way my profession is practiced. I'm a pediatric surgeon. I hadstarted to study psychiatry (July 1974) in Pennsylvania to see why the world has goneso crazy. Nevertheless I'm not impressed, the approach to treatment inpsychiatry is conventional... standardized. I'll leave psychiatry too. I don'tknow what I will do.


Krishnamurti: Don't leave psychiatry. Change it.

克:不要放弃psychiatrypsychiatry 本意是心灵愈合)。改变它。

Ruben: I never thought you would give me concreteadvice like that. It sounds absurd though. Changing psychiatry sounds likechanging the color of the crickets of the world.


Krishnamurti: You have to change psychiatry.


Ruben: I wish I knew what you meant.


Krishnamurti: You have to meet Dr. David Bohm in London. Let's go theresoon.

克:你要去见见伦敦的David Bohm博士。我们很快就去。

Ruben: I wish I could, perhaps if I get a loan.


Krishnamurti: No! Don't ask for a loan. You'llmeet him soon anyway.


Ruben: I need to make changes. I have no peace.Friends have disappeared in Argentina.Everything seems so chaotic and corrupt....


Krishnamurti: (smiling) You need exercise(Krishnamurti touched my belly with the tip of his left index finger).

Ruben: I work 16 hours a day and then I have tosit to study for four hours a day before I go to sleep. All this to renew mymedical license in the USA.


Krishnamurti: That's an excuse. Take care ofyourself. You need exercise. You look like a bull.


Ruben: Sometimes I feel that I need to share my understandingwith people around the world. What do you say to that?


Krishnamurti: You speak.

A very long silence followed. I had expected himto tell me to "stay put" and spend the rest of my life in silentmeditation. With very few words he was the perfect mirror for my owncontradictions to emerge and be clearly seen.


He insisted: The Foundation in Puerto Rico has no head. I hope you will take it (he grabbed my leftknee).


Ruben: Krishnaji, when I was with Biascoecheaeverything seemed so easy. Now I see I don't have the peace of mind, the rightskills nor the freedom (the sons and two parents to feed) to dedicate myselfsensibly to such an important and difficult task. It is certainly no picnic.


Krishnamurti: I hope you take it.


Another long silence followed.


Krishnamurti discussed several items regarding theFoundation's translations, people like Salvado Sendra, Vimala Thakar, personaland ideological struggles within the Foundations, etc.

克里希那穆提讨论了关于基金会的事情:资料翻译,人们像SalvadoSendra, Vimala Thakar, 基金会里个人的和观点的斗争,等等。

Ruben: I'm eager to meet Salvador and Vimala... but people from theFourth Path are trying to mix what you say with what others have said and arequite willing to control the Foundations.


Krishnamurti: That has been going on all the timeand not only with them. The Fourth Path is a path of violence which reinforcesthe ego and the wish to control life and its course. Do not touch it. The firstinsight is to drop everything non-essential for the total liberation ofmankind.


Ruben: Now that you mention the non-essential....Why did you allow the biography of yours written by Lutyens to be published?It's gossipy and superficial, and it may not be right selling "At the Feetof the Master" ... with your name on it.


Krishnamurti: Not my books.


Ruben: And they are making a profit.


Krishnamurti: It's not my business.


Ruben: How would you recommend your books to beread, and in what order?


Krishnamurti: Do not read them like a novel. Readslowly as if your life was in every word and every sentence. Start with thelast one and then if there is an interest go backwards through the first one.


Ruben: Should we read all your books?


Krishnamurti: If you take a train in San Francisco to go to Los Angeles... would you get off in SantaBarabara?


We both laughed. One had to laugh very often inthe company of Krishnamurti. Today the order of the books would be:


"Ending of Time"
"The Awakening of Intelligence"
"Commentaries on Living"
"Freedom from the Known", etc.
"Collected Works" (1933-67)


I asked: Why don't you eat meat?


He answered: Pity.

I expected a longer lecture but that was all hesaid. Again a long silence. The silence was alive, the silence of two alertfriends seeing together the same thing at the same time.


He stood up and said. "Excuse me Dr.Gonzalez, I'll prepare some tea for you".


At the kitchen in the big suite he whisperedsomething with Mrs. Zimbalist who was sitting there.

He came back with a cup of tea. He said: "Teaof roses for you".


I sipped it, but I didn't like it. I left it onthe little table beside us.


Ruben: Can we talk about meditation?

Ruben: 我们能谈谈冥想么?

Krishnamurti: Is there anything else?


Ruben: Well, the very word meditation is used bygurus of all kinds to make money, sell silly books, techniques, pillows,crystals, mantras, and incense.


Krishnamurti: I have been using the word for 50years. I can't change it now. People will have to see I use the word with adifferent meaning. I do not use the word meditation with its traditionalmeaning!


Ruben: What about using the expression"Unitary Perception" instead.

Krishnamurti: You use it.

(Krishnamurti said he would not use the wordmeditation anymore during his last talk in England in 1985, ten years later.)

Krishnamurti: Why not live very simply? Call itmeditation or Unitary Perception. Self protection and self aggrandizementthrough money making and success have to end in order to live simply. To livesimply is to live intelligently, without an observer in observation. If youbelieve you have to go back to Argentinato be loyal to some concept of yours you are not simple. If you are angry youare not simple. If you are full of sorrow you can't love anyone. Can you bespontaneous and simply act with not too much planning?


Ruben: You are not saying I have to remain aloneand live in poverty and silence.


Krishnamurti: Would that be simple? Would you beescaping from life? The consummation of truth is not to be successful orwealthy... but do you want complete truth? Look for success or money and you'llfind frustration. Look for truth and you'll receive total peace of mind andjoy. Will you be one of the few? Or will you continue being one of the manyworshippers of money and success?


After a long silence, he said: "Dr. Gonzalez,your tea must be cold already, finish it!"


I didn't have the courage to say no and I did finish it silently.


He said: "Let's meet tomorrow at eight A.M.


Krishnamurti went with me to the door, opened itfor me and smiled lovingly saying: "Good bye".


I said: What noun should be applied to what youteach-- "message", "gospel",..., or what?


Krishnamurti said: Call it "theteachings". Let's meet tomorrow at eight A.M., right here.
克里希纳穆提说:叫它“教育”(the teachings)。我们明天8点见面,就在这里。

I spend the rest of the afternoon by myself in myroom, which I had rented at the same hotel where Krishnamurti was staying. Ifelt like a Condor for the rest of the day. I met Krishnamurti by chance in thelobby that evening. I walked with him for awhile.

I saw a couple of very beautiful girls.


I said: "God, how beautiful they are".


He said: "Only well fed".


I said: "Krishnaji, I felt like a Condor thewhole afternoon, full of peace and joy and love. I think it's because I spentsome time with you."


Krishnamurti said: "For how long do you wantto be infected?"


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