Glancing through the questions...
浏览这些问题... ...we never seem to ask...
...我们似乎从来不问... ...questions concerning our daily life.
...与我们的日常生活息息相关的问题。 And there have been a lot of theoretical...
有很多理论上的... ...ideological questions...
...意识形态上的问题... ...that really have no meaning at all.
...它们根本就没有任何意义。 One wonders why one doesn't ask questions...
我很纳闷一个人为什么从来不问... ...about one's own life...
...关于自己生活的问题... ...depression, anxiety...
...沮丧，焦虑... ...a sense of deep loneliness and so on.
...深深的孤独感，等等。 Aren't we really concerned with our daily life...
我们难道真的不关心 ...or is it just that we live in a make-believe world...
...还是我们只是生活在一个信以为真的世界里... ...and try to find answers to some romantic...
...并试图找到答案来回答某些浪漫的... ...sentimental, idealistic, or religious beliefs?
...伤感的，理想主义的，或者宗教信念的问题？ I wonder why, one asks, if I may...
我不明白为什么，如果可以，我想问... ...why don't we ask such questions directly, simply about oneself?
...我们为什么不直接、简明地对自己提出这些质疑？ We all want to end war...
我们都希望结束战争... ...at least some people do.
...至少一部分人是这样。 And pacem in terris, that is, peace on earth, in Latin...
“和平于世”，即世上的和平，不能降临在拉丁美洲... ...is not possible, apparently, in this world...
...显然，也不会降临于整个世界... ...in spite of demonstrations...
...尽管人们游行、集会... ...in spite of all the preaching of the priests...
...尽管牧师传道... ...and religious books and so on...
...以及出版诸多宗教书籍等等... ...we can never have peace in this world apparently.
...很明显，我们永不可能让和平降临于世... And we never ask if one can live peacefully in our daily life...
并且我们从来不问一个人是否能够过上平和的日常生活... ...without any violence...
...没有暴力... ...without all the innumerable multiplying problems...
...没有无穷无尽的问题... ...live a clear, simple, strong life.
...活在清晰，简单，坚定的生活当中。 Apparently that is not possible...
很明显这并不可能... ...and we don't ask such questions.
...而且我们也并没有质疑。 May I raise a question?
我可以提一个问题么？ Why do you come?
你们为什么而来？ Please, I really mean it, why are we all here?
注意，我是认真的，我们为什么聚集在这里？ When the speaker is in India...
当我在印度演讲... ...and talks to between 5 to 8 thousand people at every meeting...
...每次会议都面对着5千至8千人... ...they come there...
...听众们来到会场... ...most of them understand English...
...他们大多数懂英语... ...and most of them come...
...他们大多数的到场... ...to be in the presence of a religious person...
...是作为一个宗教人士... ...at least they quote, 'religious person'.
...至少他们称作，“宗教人士” They don't quite understand what the speaker is talking about...
其实他们并不明白演讲者所说的内容... ...I am sure they don't.
...我敢肯定他们不懂。 But they must come as it is the tradition, it is the fashion...
但他们必须来，因为这是一个传统、一种潮流... ...it is the reputation, the image...
...这是名望，是形象... ...and all that nonsense...
...是任何没有意义的事情... ...I was going to use a stronger word!
...我打算用一个更强烈的词！ And perhaps you come here out of curiosity...
可能你们来这里是出于好奇... ...or to spend a nice morning...
...或者想度过一个美好的上午... ...under the trees, and the dappled light...
...在大树的荫蔽下，在日光的斑驳中... ...or take a sun bath and listen to the poor chap.
...晒晒太阳，听听这个可怜的家伙的讲述。 And so you go on that way.
所以你们继续着这些事情。 All this doesn't actually deeply, profoundly change us.
但所有这些并不会真的、深刻的、彻底的改变我们。 What makes human beings change?
那么什么会让人类改变？ This is really a very serious question.
这是一个非常严肃的问题。 Why do we behave as we do behave?
为什么我们持续着我们既有的行为方式？ Is it possible that suffering...
苦难... ...pain, anxiety...
...痛苦、焦虑... ...a sense of desperate depression...
...令人绝望的沮丧感觉... ...out of which one finds oneself...
...那种令人觉得... ...almost impossible to get out of...
...无法自拔的感受... ...and the terrible ambitions...
...以及可怕的野心... ...and the competition, and all that kind of thing that is going on...
...竞争，和所有类似的现象都在继续着... ...can we change all that, each one?
...我们能否改变所有这些，一个不剩? And you will inevitably ask, does it really matter...
你不可避免地会问必须要改变么... ...if I change, if one changes...
...如果我去改变，如果一个人去改变... ...will it in any way affect the whole human endeavour...
...这是否会改变整个人类的努力... ...and their mischief, and their superstitions and violence?
...以及人类的灾难、迷信和暴力？ And one thinks that is a wrong question to put.
你也许认为这是一个错误的提问。 That is, you will change only...
也就是说，你只有在确定这会影响整个世界的前提下... ...if it affects the rest of the world.
...你才会改变。 And if it doesn't, it doesn't matter very much how one lives.
如果并非如此，一个人怎样生活也就不那么重要了。 One wonders if you have ever considered...
我在想你们是否曾思考过... ...how one man can change...
...一个人怎么能够改变... ...the whole human consciousness, human beings.
...整个人类的意识及人类本身。 One man.
一个人。 As a bad example of a neurotic and insane person like Hitler...
举一个不好的例子，譬如像希特勒一样病态疯狂的人... ...who has done such tremendous harm to the world...
...他对世界进行了如此巨大的破坏... ...he has changed...
...他改变了... ...or affected the rest of the world...
...或者影响了整个世界... ...their consciousness, their behaviour.
...包括人们的意识、行为。 And you might also say, has the Buddha...
你可能又会问，佛陀... ...two thousand five hundred years ago...
...两千五百年之前的佛陀... ...has he in any way affected the world?
...他究竟有没有改变世界？ Or the Christians believe in the saviour, Jesus and all that...
或者基督教徒们信仰的救世主、耶稣等等... ...have they really changed the world...
...他们都有没有真正改变世界... ...changed human minds...
...改变人类的心智... ...human behaviour, endless suffering?
...人类的行为，及无休止的苦难？ Or have the priests throughout the world...
或者全世界的牧师们... ...prevented this change?
...是否阻止了这场改变？ You understand my question?
你明白我的问题吗？ One has no direct - direct...
人并没有直接地-直接地... ...teachings of the Buddha, or that of Jesus.
...从佛陀或者耶稣那里获得教诲。 His teachings apparently were interpreted after sixty years...
他的教诲都是在六十年后被别人阐释的... ...so there is no direct teachings.
...所以没有直接的教诲。 And perhaps that has prevented human beings...
很可能这阻止了人类... ...from acting rightly.
...采取正确的行为。 So one wonders all along the long journey of one's life...
所以我想，在一个人的漫长生命之旅中... ...why profoundly human beings don't change their ways of life.
...为什么人们固执地不去改变他们的生活方式。 Is more suffering necessary?
必须要有更多的苦难么？ Is more violence necessary?
必须要有更多的暴力么？ More experts and so on?
更多的专家等等？ Or we haven't got the energy, the drive, the passion...
还是我们没有力量，动力、热情... ...the intensity to change...
...以及激情去改变... ...the pattern of one's deep behaviours?
...我们根深蒂固的行为方式？ Please do ask these questions of yourself.
请认真地问一问自己这个问题。 And here there are many questions given.
这里提出了很多的问题。 Questions imply problems.
质疑意味着问题存在。 And problems ought to be solved.
问题应该被解决。 Not in the resolution of one problem...
而不是在一个问题的解决过程中... ...a dozen other problems arise.
...产生一堆别的问题。 The ending of a problem, of any problem.
而是终结一个问题，终结所有问题。 And apparently we don't seem able to do that, either politically...
很明显，我们似乎不可能做到这一点，无论从政治上... ...economically, socially and so on, or religiously.
...经济上，社会上，宗教上等等。 It is a perpetual reorganisation.
这将永远是场重组。 When that reorganisation doesn't function properly...
当这个重组不能正常运作... ...reorganise it...
...就再重组它... ...keep on reorganising every organisation.
...持续不断的重组另一个组织。 I don't know if you have not noticed this.
我不知道你们是否已经注意到这点。 And this is called progress.
这就是所谓的进步。 This is called bringing about order in the world.
这就是所谓的给世界带来秩序。 Can one put aside...
我们能不能把这些放到一边... ...all organisations, spiritual specially...
...所有这些组织，尤其是灵性上的... ...if one can use that word that has been so spoilt...
...如果我还可以用这个词的话，这个词已经面目全非... ...not belong to anything at all...
...不属于任何事物... ...not be caught in any box, in any system...
...也不陷入任何空间、体系中... ...and work, look, observe...
...而是去工作、去看、去观察... ...perceive one's own behaviour, change?
...去察觉我们自身的行为，并且改变？ And why doesn't one do all this?
为什么没有人这样做？ Why does one depend on others?
为什么人都依赖他人？ Please do ask these questions...
请问问自己这些问题... ...most seriously if one may request you.
...极其认真地问，如果我可以请求你这么做的话。 1st QUESTION: There are moments of awareness...
第一个问题：有一些觉察的时刻... ...in which there is great clarity...
...其中存在着巨大的清澈... ...and fear, division, and the experiences are absent.
...恐惧、界分，以及一切经验都不在了。 But the moments are brief.
但这样的时刻是短暂的。 What is necessary to allow a sustained clarity...
怎样才能让清澈持续... ...intensity, and the wholeness of being?
...让热情及存在的整体性持续？ There are moments of awareness in which there is great clarity...
有这样一些觉察的时刻，其中有着巨大的清澈... ...and fear, division, and the experiences are absent.
...恐惧、界分，以及一切经验都不在了。 But the moments are brief.
但这样的时刻是短暂的。 What is necessary to allow a sustained clarity...
怎样才能让清澈持续... ...intensity, and the wholeness of being?
...让热情及存在的整体性持续？ Whom are you asking this question?
这个问题你在问谁？ This is apparently a serious question. It looks serious.
显然这是一个严肃的问题。看起来很严肃。 Whom are you asking?
你在问谁？ And you want a reply from somebody.
你希望从某人那里得到回答。 That somebody is the speaker here, for the moment.
这个人此刻是这个讲话者。 If the speaker doesn't satisfy you with the answer...
如果讲话者的回答没有令你满意... ...you trot off to somebody else.
...你又转向他人。 And if that somebody else isn't good enough you go after somebody else.
如果这个人还不够令你满意你又去找下一个人... You keep this going.
你继续如此下去。 And that means, doesn't it...
这不是就意味着... ...we depend on others to tell us what to do...
...我们依赖别人来告诉我们该做什么... ...what to think, how to find clarity...
...该想什么，怎样找到清澈... ...sanity, a wholeness of life.
...理智，及生命的完整。 Always, apparently, we depend on somebody.
很明显，我们总是依靠别人。 We never look into this question, ask ourselves...
我们从不观察问题本身，问问我们自己... ...and see if we can, for ourselves...
...看我们是否能够，为了自己... ...totally independent of others...
...完全独立于他人地... ...find out if it is possible...
...去发现这是否可能... ...to be absolutely unconfused...
...可否完全无所困惑... ...to be absolutely clear...
...完全地清澈... ...not momentarily...
...不是暂时的... ...not occasionally when you have nothing else to do...
...不是偶尔当你没有其他事可做的时候... ...but is it possible?
...而这真的可能么？ Not the continuity of clarity.
（我讲的）不是清澈的持续。 You understand?
你明白吗？ Suppose one is clear for a moment...
假设一个人在某刻很清醒... ...and that clarity for a second...
...这种清澈持续了一秒钟... ...banishes away fear, experiences and all that...
...祛除了恐惧、经验及其他所有的... ...then that memory of that clarity...
...之后这有关清澈的记忆... ...is not the fact of clarity.
...并不是真实的清澈本身... Right?
对不对？ I wonder if you see this?
我不知道你们是否看到了这点？ Suppose I am walking in the woods...
假设我在树林中行走... ...not in California, here...
...不是在加利福尼亚，就在这儿... ...it is too strong the sun...
...阳光太强烈... ...suppose one is walking among the woods...
...假设一个人正在行走在树林中... ...and listening to the birds, and to the spotted lights...
...聆听着鸟鸣，以及斑驳的阳光... ...and the beauty of the foliage...
...和树叶的美... ...and for a moment there is absolute clarity.
...在那一时刻有着纯粹的清澈。 And that clarity has left...
然后那清澈留下了... ...an imprint on the brain...
...脑中的标记... ...it says, 'By Jove, how clear it was.'
...它说，“天啊，如此清晰。” Then one wants that clarity to continue...
然后就希望那种清澈能持续... ...don't we?
...我们不是这样吗？ Like pleasure, you want it to continue.
就像欢愉，你希望它持续。 The continuity is the movement of memory. Right?
这种持续其实是记忆的运转。是不是？ I must go into all that.
我必须深入这些问题。 It involves time, doesn't it?
它包含着时间，不是吗？ Anything that continues must have time, the implication of time.
任何持续的事物必然包含着时间、时间的含义。 And time will not allow clarity.
但时间不会允许清澈存在。 It is the freedom from time that is clarity.
摆脱了时间的自由才是清澈。 Let's go into this again, if we may.
如果可以，让我们再深入一次。 Say, for example, one wants security, psychologically.
举例来说，一个人想得到心理上的安全 And one for a few seconds, or for a few days, one has this feeling...
他拥有了几秒钟，或者几天这种感觉... ...of absolutely being safe...
...绝对安全的感觉... ...protected, solidly secure.
...被保护着的，牢固的安全感。 Then that disappears after a few days.
而这种感觉在几天后消失了。 But the memory of that feeling remains.
但是对这种感觉的记忆留下了。 And we want to continue that...
我们试图让这感觉继续... ...which has happened two days ago.
...这个发生在两天前的感觉。 Right? This is what we are all caught in.
是不是？这就是我们所陷入的（问题）。 That is, the duration of an experience which has finished...
这就是已经结束的经验持续的那段时间... ...and the memory of it we want...
...当我们回忆这种体验，我们希望... ...the memory wants continuity of that thing which has happened.
...记忆希望继续保持那已经发生过的感受。 So if we could look at this question...
所以如果我们可以观察这个问题... ...time by the watch...
...时间，手表上的时间... ...by the sunset and sunrise...
...随着日升日落... ...time as day and night...
...白天黑夜的时间... ...time of year and so on, that is there is time.
...一年或者其他等等也就是说，时间存在着。 And thought is also time. Right?
其实思想也是时间。是不是？ You are following this?
你们跟上了么？ Time is a movement of thought...
时间是思想的运动... ...from the past to the present and the future...
...从过去到现在再到未来... ...which is a movement of time.
...这就是时间的运动。 This movement has its own continuity. Right?
这种运动有它自己的持续性。对不对？ Are we together following this?
我们都一起跟上了吗？ And the brain, which has evolved through time, says...
于是头脑，已经包含了时间的大脑，会说... ...continuity is essential because...
...持续是必要的因为... ...you understand?..
...你明白吗？... ...for it to continue it is essential.
...要想头脑继续存在时间是必要的。 Physically, biologically, it is necessary.
从物理学角度，生物学角度，这都是必要的。 But psychologically it wants also to continue.
但从心理上头脑也想持续下去。 So the brain becomes confused...
所以头脑变得迷惑... ...when there is no continuity.
...当持续不存在的时候。 Are you following all this?
你们都跟上了吗？ Are we together somewhat in this?
我们多少会有些共鸣吧？ And one questions whether there is psychological continuity at all.
我质疑在心理上究竟是否存在持续性。 You understand my question?
你明白我的问题吗？ We are questioning, I am not stating...
我们在质疑，我不是在陈述... ...is there psychological continuity at all?
...究竟是否存在心理上的持续？ That is, the moments of clarity...
也就是，清澈的时刻... ...which banishes, puts aside all fear...
...也就是消除了，抛开了所有恐惧... ...all problems, and all the travail of life...
...所有问题，以及所有生命的痛苦... ...it happens in a moment.
...清澈发生在这一刻。 And the brain says, it must continue.
头脑会说，这清澈必须要持续。 Because it only thinks in terms of time, a continuity. You understand?
因为头脑只会按照时间去思考，这是一种延续。你明白吗？ Biologically it is necessary to continue day after day. Right?
从生物学考虑，一天天的持续是必要的。对不对？ The same house, same food, same clothes...
同样的房子，同样的食物，同样的衣服... ...same roof over the head.
...头上同样的屋顶。 Psychologically also we want in relationship security to continue.
从心理的角度我们同样希望关系中的安全可以持续。 Right? Are you following all this?
对不对？你们都跟上了么？ Is there in relationship security at all?
在关系中安全究竟是否存在？ Which is a duration of long period of time.
这种安全是一段很长时间的持续。 When there is the demand for that there is conflict.
当有这种需求存在的时候冲突也就产生了。 I wonder if you understand this.
我不知道你们明不明白这点。 Oh, no!
哦，没有！ Relationship, as it is very important...
关系，是非常重要的... ...it is a tremendously important thing in life, relationship...
...它是生活中极其重要的事情，关系... ...one cannot possibly exist in this world without relationship...
...一个人不可能脱离关系存在于世上... ...whether you are a monk, a sannyasi, a wanderer...
...不论你是修道士，遁世者，或者流浪者... ...you are always related to the past or to a person...
...你都要和过去或者某个人有所关联... ...or to a concept of the future.
...或者和某种意义上的未来有关联。 It isn't just merely physical relationship.
这不仅仅是物理上的联系。 As relationship is very seriously important in life...
关系在生活中是非常重要的... ...there are moments in which relationship has great depth...
...在有些时候，关系具有巨大的深度... ...silence and a sense of tremendous well-being.
...宁静以及一种无以伦比的美好感觉。 Right? Don't you know all this?
对不对？你们知道这些么？ The speaker hasn't to go through all this, but he will go through it.
讲话者没必要讨论所有这些，但这点他必须强调。 And that, those moments of deep sense of fullness, wholeness...
那些感到深切的充实、完整的片刻... ...is registered, recorded in the brain...
...被我们记录在脑中... ...and the function of the brain is to record and keep it going.
...大脑的功能便是记录这些时刻并让它们延续。 And so the memory begins to play an important part.
所以记忆起了很重要的作用。 So one questions whether there is security at all...
所以一个人问究竟是否存在着安全... ...in relationship?
...关系中的安全？ You understand my question?
你们明白我的问题吗？ We want it.
我们都想希望如此。 We think it is absolutely necessary, but is there?
我们觉得这种安全是绝对必要的，但它真的存在么？ Please ask yourself.
请问问你们自己。 Security means permanency...
安全意味着永恒... ...and is there anything in life permanent?
...生命中有什么是永恒的么？ Death is always there, but let's leave death alone for the moment.
死亡总会来临，但让我们在此刻忘掉了死亡。 Is there anything permanent in life?
生命中有什么是永恒的吗？ We want to have something permanent.
我们希望事物是永恒的。 Apparently religious people say, god is permanent.
很明显，宗教人士会说上帝是永恒的。 That's a marvellous invention but it has very little meaning.
这是一个美妙的发明但它没什么意义。 So we are seeking in relationship security and permanency.
我们寻求关系中的安全与永恒。 That very concept...
正是这个观念... ...please listen to this for a minute...
...请认真听一下... ...that very concept of demanding security and permanency...
...这个希望安全与永恒的观念本身... ...is translated as attachment.
...就是依赖。 Right?
对不对？ So there is deep attachment to another.
所以才有了对他人的深深依赖。 It may be for a month, for a week, or for fifty years.
依赖可能存在一个月，一个星期，或者50年。 And during this state of attachment...
在这种依赖的情况下... ...there is all the conflict of jealousy...
...也就有了嫉妒... ...suspicion, fear, gain and loss, you know.
...怀疑，恐惧，拥有和失去的种种冲突，你知道的。 You know all this, don't you?
你们明白这些，不是吗？ So the demand in relationship...
所以希望在关系中... ...to have a sense of permanent continuity...
...有永远持续下去的感觉... ...in which there is security...
...其中有着安全... ...leads to attachment...
...这也就造成了依赖... ...and all the complexity of attachment.
...以及所有依赖的种种体现。 If one sees that, perceives the fact of that...
如果一个人看到这一点，察觉到这个事实... You understand?
你们明白吗？ Perceiving it...
察觉它... ...as you perceive the tree and you don't, unless you are blind...
...就像你观察一棵树，除非你失明... ...you don't go against it, knock yourself.
...你不要抵触它，自己体会一下。 So if you see this fact that the demand in relationship...
所以如果你看到事实是希望关系能够永恒... ...for permanency and security which inevitably leads to a great deal...
...希望关系安全，这会不可避免的导致大量... ...of conflict and attachment, fear and so on...
冲突以及依赖、恐惧等等... ...then that very perception burns away...
...那么这种觉察本身便能去祛除... ...the demand for security.
...对于安全的渴望。 You understand?
你们明白吗？ Is this clear, this question?
这个问题清楚了么？ That...
然后... ...at the moment when we think in terms of time...
...在某种时刻，我们按照时间去思考... ...a sense of continuity...
...一种持续的感觉... ...then intensity, clarity...
...热情，清澈... ...and the feeling of wholeness disappears.
...以及完整的感觉也就会消失殆尽。 I wonder if you captured all this?
我不知道你们都明白了这些没有？ You have listened to this, is it all nonsense?
你们听到了以上这些，它们是否都是胡话？ Do you say, what the devil are you talking about?
你是否会说，你究竟在说什么啊？ Or is it sanity, reason, logical...
又或者这是清醒的、理性的、逻辑的... ...and if you...
...你是否... ...if I may most respectfully ask...
...如果我可以最为恭敬地问... ...if you see this very clearly...
...你是否看清楚... ...the fact that we do demand in our life, in our daily living...
...这个事实，就是我们确实想要在我们的生命中、日常生活中... ...psychologically a sense of continuity...
...拥有一种心理上的延续感... ...a sense of security...
...安全感... ...it must inevitably bring conflict.
...这必然会带来冲突... Right?
对不对？ Do we see this, perceive this fact?
我们认识到这点了么？观察到这个事实了么？ And we are saying if we perceive the truth of this...
我们说，如果我们观察这个事实... ...that very perception burns away...
...那么这种察觉本身就能去除... ...the demand for security and permanency.
...想要安全和永恒的欲望。 Therefore then what is our relationship with each other?
那么，我们相互间的关系是什么？ You understand?
你明白吗？ You understand my question?
你明白我的问题吗？ Suppose the speaker or you have not this sense of security...
假设我或者你没有这种安全的感觉... ...and permanency, that doesn't mean anything...
永久的感觉，这没有任何意义... ...suppose, then what is relationship? You understand?
...假设如此，那么关系是什么？你明白吗？ What is my wife and my husband...
我的妻子、我的丈夫... ...or girlfriend, or boyfriend, whatever it is?
...我的女友或者男友，他们是什么？ Do please ask this, think it out, let's work it out.
请务必问下自己，想明白，让我们解决它。 What is one's relationship with another, intimate, or otherwise?
和另一个人，不管亲密或者正相反，这关系是什么？ Is there just, what, a gap?
是不是只是，那什么，一个鸿沟？ Or when there is no permanency...
或者当没有了永恒... ...demand for permanency and security...
...想要永恒以及安全的欲望... ...with all its complexity...
...以及所有这些复杂的事情... ...is it possible a new awakening...
...能否出现一种新的觉醒... ...a new sense of what is love?
...一种对爱是什么的全新感觉？ Do you understand my question?
你们明白我的问题吗？ Permanency and attachment, with all its pain and pleasure...
永恒和依赖，以及所有痛苦和快乐... ...and anxiety, and fear, is not love.
...还有焦虑、恐惧，这都不是爱。 And in the absence of that...
但这些消失后... ...entirely, deeply, profoundly...
...完全地、深刻地、彻底地消失后... ...the other is like a flower that's blooming.
...那另一个就会像一朵鲜花一样绽放了。 Right?
是不是？ Is this possible?
这可能么？ Is this possible when you hear all this...
这是否可能，当你听到所有这些... ...is it possible in your daily life?
...这在你的日常生活中是否可能？ Love is not thought...
爱不是思想... ...desire, sensation...
...渴望、感官享受... ...love has totally a different quality.
...爱拥有完全不同的品质。 And that is totally absent when the other...
爱会完全消失，如果它之外的另一个... ..security and all the rest of that, is the demand of every human being.
...安全以及所有其他，成为了每个人的欲望。 2nd QUESTION: What is judgement?
第二个问题：什么是判断？ How is one to determine...
人怎样确定... ...the line dividing opinion...
...划分对事实的看法... ...and the perception of fact?
...和对事实的觉察，这两者之间的界限？ What is judgement?
什么是判断？ How is one to determine the line dividing opinion...
人怎样确定划分观点... ...and the perception of fact?
...和觉察事实之间的界限？ It's a good question.
这是一个很好的问题。 What is fact, and what is opinion?
什么是事实，什么是观点？ And where is the dividing line between the two?
两者的分界线在哪里？ Why do we have opinions?
为什么我们有着种种看法？ The meaning of that word, 'opinion', means judgement, evaluation...
“观点”这个词，意味着判断、评判... ...preconceived concepts, you know, the whole...
...事先形成的概念，你知道，所有的... ...assertive dogmatic opinions that each one has.
...武断的、教条的观点，每个人都有。 Why do we carry so many opinions?
我们为什么背负如此多的观点？ Please enquire into this.
请深深思考这个问题。 Why do we have opinions at all?
我们究竟为何有这些看法？ We have opinions about everything.
我们对每件事都有看法。 And apparently they are so strong...
显然，这些观点如此强烈... ...and we think that is freedom...
...我们认为这是种自由... ...to have a thousand opinions about everything.
...自由地去对每件事物拥有无数种看法。 That gives you a sense of freedom...
这给你一种自由的感觉... ...at least you think one is free, independence.
...至少，你认为你是自由的、独立的。 It's my opinion, I am right.
这是我的看法，我是对的。 So we have a thousand opinions.
所以我们有许多种观点。 And what are facts? What is fact?
但事实是什么呢？事实如何？ Fact is that which has happened. Right?
事实是确已发生的。对不对？ That which has happened.
已经发生的事实。 An incident or an accident is a fact...
一个意外或事故是... ...which took place yesterday.
...昨天发生的事实。 And fact is also what is happening now. Right?
事实也是现在发生着的。对不对？ What is happening now...
现在发生着什么... You and I are sitting here having a conversation...
你和我坐在这里一起对话... ...a dialogue, or a question and answer and so on, that's a fact.
...谈论、或者提问、回答等等这是个事实。 What is not a fact is what may happen tomorrow.
那么什么不是事实呢，是那些明天可能发生的事。 Right?
对不对？ I wonder if we are coming together in this?
我想知道我们是否都明白这点了？ What may happen when you leave this place and go off...
当你离开这个地方的时候将会发生什么？ Something might happen.
一些事可能会发生。 So fact is that which has happened...
所以事实是那些已经发生的... ...that which is happening...
...和那些正在发生的... ...and fact is not what will happen.
...而事实不是将要发生的事情。 That's clear.
这样就清楚了。 What will happen is decided...
将要发生的事情取决于... ...by what is happening now. Right?
...此刻发生着的事情。对不对？ I wonder if you see this.
我想知道你们是否看到了这点。 The future is in the present.
未来就在现在。 Right?
对不对？ The future, what you are now...
未来，你现在是什么... ...is the future.
...将来就是什么。 Right? Modified, but basically what you are now.
对不对？可能会有所改变但基本上就是你现在的样子。 So the future is in the present.
所以未来就在此刻。 Right?
对不对？ And the past is also in the present.
过去也在此刻。 Right?
对不对？ So the present contains all time.
所以此刻包含着所有时间。 Please don't play with this as a theory, it is meaningless.
请不要把这个当作理论，这毫无意义。 It becomes a slogan if you repeat that...
如果你仅仅是重复读它，它也就变成了口号... ...at least it loses its meaning.
...至少它失去了本来的意义。 But if you see that the past...
但是如果你看到过去... ...has a continuity in the present...
...在此刻持续着... Right?
对不对？ ...and the future is the past...
...并且未来就是过去... ...modified in the present...
...在此刻经过修改... ...the past modified through the present...
...过去经过现在的修改... ...so the present, the now, contains all time.
...所以现在，此刻包含着所有时间。 Right?
对不对？ And if you don't change now...
如果你现在不改变... ...you will be exactly the same tomorrow, slightly modified.
...你明天也将一模一样，只有微小的改变。 So the future is in the present.
所以未来就包含在现在。 This is really quite important to understand because...
理解这一点，非常重要，因为... ...what is action?
...什么是行为？ I mustn't go into that, it's too complicated.
我不能讨论这个，它太复杂了。 So why do human beings cling to opinions and not facts?
那么人类为什么紧紧抱持着观点而不是事实本身？ You can conclude from a fact an opinion.
你可以从事实推断出一个观点。 Right?
对不对？ A fact can be made into an opinion...
一个事实可以变为一个观念... ...but the opinion is not the fact.
...但观念不是事实。 I may have an accident in a car...
我可能出了场车祸... ...and you come along and see it...
...你过来看到这个事实... ...and have umpteen opinions about it...
...产生了很多相关看法... ...but the fact is I have an accident.
...但事实是我出了场车祸。 So why do we have opinions at all...
所以我们究竟为何会产生看法... ...about government, about religion...
...关于政府，关于宗教... ...about this, about that, about literature, about poems, you follow?
...关于这个，关于那个，关于文学、诗歌，你明白吗？ Why? Is it a kind of game?
为什么？这是场游戏么？ Is it a kind of wastage of energy?
是不是一种能量的浪费？ Is it another form of chattering?
还是另一种形式的喋喋不休？ Which is all a waste of time, waste of energy.
这都是一种时间、能量的浪费。 Whereas if you stick to facts, which is, what has happened...
然而如果你紧跟事实，也就是那些已经发生的... ...what is happening, that's only facts.
...正在发生的，这些仅有的事实。 I am looking at the tree. That's a fact.
我正观察着这棵树。这是事实。 Why do I have to have an opinion about that?
为什么我要对此产生看法？ If I am a lumber merchant, thank god, I am not...
如果我是个木材商人，感谢上帝，我不是... ...and I say that's a valuable tree, let's cut it down...
...我会说这棵树值钱，我们砍掉它吧... ...that's a different matter.
...这就是另一回事了。 But to have constant opinions about everything...
但对每件事物都不断抱有看法... ...seems to one such a stupid waste of energy and time...
...看起来是件愚蠢的浪费时间、精力的事... ...you know, it is so useless.
...你知道，它是多么没有意义。 And judgement, the question is: what is judgement?
回到判断，问题是：什么是判断？ A judge passes a sentence...
一个法官给出一个审判... ...on somebody, criminal, or some innocent man.
...对于某人，有罪或者无辜的人。 There was a judge once...
曾经有一个法官... ...whom the speaker happened to know.
...讲话者碰巧认识他。 He was high up in law and became a judge.
他精于法律所以成为了法官。 And one morning after many years of judgement, he said...
在从事了多年的判决工作后，有一天早上，他说... ...'What am I judging? What is truth?
...“我在裁决什么？什么是真相？ I am passing a judgement about everything...
我对每件事都给出判决... ...according to precedence and so on, what is truth?
...根据之前的判例等等，可什么是真相？ Unless I find that out judgement has no meaning.'
除非我找到真相否则判决没有意义。” So as was customary in India in those days...
按照印度那时的传统... ...about fifty-eight years ago...
...大概在58年之前... ...he called his family and said...
...他召集了他的家人说... 'I am going to withdraw from the world...
“我打算退出社会... ...go off into the forest, into some distant village...
...去森林之中，去遥远的村子中... ...meditate and find out.'
...沉思并找到答案。” We are telling you the facts of it, not opinions about it.
我们正在告诉你有关它的事实而非对它的看法。 After twenty years or forty years - I have forgotten the exact time...
20年或者40年之后-我已经忘了确切的时间... ...somebody brought him to listen to one of the talks...
...有人带他去听一次讲话... ...that K was giving...
...K的讲话... ...and he came to see the speaker afterwards, and he said...
...他之后去见了讲话者，然后他说... ...'You know, what I have been doing all these forty years?
...“你知道么，我这四十年都做了什么？ I started out to find truth...
我本想找到真相... ...meditated, did all kinds of things...
...沉思，做所有类似的事情... ...and I see now that I have been mesmerising myself.
...然后我发现原来我是在催眠自己。 I have been living an illusion.'
我生活在幻想之中。” Right? You understand all this?
对不对？你们明白这些么？ For an old man...
对于一个老人... ...to acknowledge such a statement and say...
...能承认这番话，并说... ...'That's a fact', that needs a great deal of perception.
...“这就是事实”，这需要大量的觉察。 So, what is judgement, what is justice?
所以，什么是判断，什么是公正？ Is there justice in the world?
世界上有公正存在么？ Please ask this question of yourself.
请问你自己这个问题。 Is there justice in the world?
这世上有公正存在么？ You are born in a good family...
你在一个良好的家庭出生... ...money, education...
...金钱、教育... ...prosperity, success...
...繁荣、成功... ...and the other lives in a small ghetto...
...而其他人生活在狭小的贫民窟... ...no future except poverty, constant struggle. Right?
...没有未来，只有贫穷，不断的挣扎。对不对？ Where is justice in that?
这其中的公正在哪儿？ The Indians have a very good explanation, the Hindus...
在印度又一个很好的解释，印度人... ...which is karma.
...称其为业。 You understand?
你明白吗？ Don't - please, that word 'karma' means to act.
请不要这样，“业”这个词意味着行动。 Not all these things given to it.
而不是赋予它的那些意思。 To act rightly, now.
现在，就正确地行动。 Because if you act rightly now, the future is right.
因为如果你现在做正确的事，未来就会正确。 So, or if you act mischievously now...
所以，相反你现在做有害的事情... ...you pay for it next day or next life.
...你会在第二天或者来世付出代价。 Now, is there justice in the world?
那，世界上有公正么？ A crook can employ a clever lawyer...
一个骗子可以雇一位聪明的律师... ...and get away with it.
...而得以逃脱罪名。 This is happening everyday.
这样的事每天都在发生。 You are clever, I am not.
你很聪明，而我不是。 You are beautiful, I am not.
你很漂亮，而我不是。 You are extraordinarily alive, I am not.
你极其富有活力，而我不是。 These are facts.
这就是事实。 So, where is there justice?
那么，公平在哪里？ There is so-called legal justice...
存在着所谓法律的公正... ...which is totally different from actual justice.
...这和真实的公正完全不是一回事。 Justice can only be found...
只有有了自由和慈悲... ...where there is freedom and compassion.
...才能找到公正。 Without that freedom and compassion...
没有那自由和慈悲... ...which in its movement is intelligence...
...他们的运作中就有智慧... ...there is justice, otherwise there is no justice in the world.
...那里有公平，否则世界上就没有公平。 This is, please, not an opinion, not a theory...
请注意，这不是一个观念，不是一个理论... ...but when you have this feeling of great compassion...
...而是当你拥有如此巨大的慈悲之心时... ...which is quite a deep question...
...这是一个相当深奥的问题... ...then there is in that compassion, there is justice.
...然后在那慈悲之中，就有了公正。 3rd QUESTION: There are many people who have considerable difficulty...
第三个问题：有很多人遇到相当大的困难... ...with the fact of homosexuality.
...来面对同性恋的事实。 Teachers for centuries have avoided this enquiry.
老师们几个世纪以来都逃避这个问题。 Could you, please, even briefly, put some light on this question?
那么，请你能否至少简单地，对于这个问题给出一些启示？ I have travelled two thousand miles to ask this question.
我旅行了两千多英里来问这个问题。 There are many people who have considerable difficulties...
有很多人遇到相当大的困难... ...with the fact of homosexuality.
...来面对同性恋的事实。 Teachers for centuries have avoided this question.
老师们几个世纪以来都逃避这个问题。 Could you please, even briefly, put some... answer this question?
那么，请你能否至少简单地，对于这个问题给出一些启示？ I have travelled two thousand years... miles (laughter)...
我旅行了两千多年...英里（笑声）... ...to ask this question?
...来问这个问题？ Sorry, quite right.
抱歉，一点没错。 I have travelled two thousand years!
我旅行了两千年！ This has been a question...
这已经是一个问题... ...for thousands and thousands and thousands of years.
...存在了一个千年又一个千年。 It isn't something new.
它不是什么新鲜事。 We are not taking sides in this matter.
我们不是在讨论这件事的对错。 We don't condemn it or approve it or disapprove it.
我们不责备它、肯定它或否定它。 These are facts. Right?
这些是事实，对不对？ As heterosexuality is a fact.
就好像异性恋是事实一样。 Homosexuality exists in the world...
同性恋存在于世上... ...in different parts of the world...
...在世界的不同地区... ...very common...
...这很寻常... ...in other parts of the world it is practically unknown.
...而在世界的另外一些地区这几乎没有被意识到。 So how do you answer this question? What is the question?
所以你要怎么回答这个问题？这个问题是什么？ Why do we make it into such an enormous problem?
我们为什么使它成为了一个巨大的问题？ Apparently we don't make...
很显然，我们没有令... ...heterosexuality a problem at all...
...异性恋成为一个问题... ...but we make this into a problem, why?
...但我们令同性恋成为了问题，为什么？ It is a fact.
这是一个事实。 So should we enquire into this question...
我们应该探询这个问题么？ ...into heterosexuality and homosexuality differently?
...以不同的方式来探讨异性恋和同性恋？ Not condemn one or the other...
不谴责其中的任何一个... ...or approve one and deny the other...
...不赞成一个而否定另一个... ...but enquire why sexuality, both...
...而是想为什么这两种性特征... ...has become so colossally important.
...变得如此重要。 Right?
对不对？ Why? You answer this question.
为什么？你们回答这个问题。 On television, in magazines...
电视上，杂志上... ...every bestseller...
...所有畅销书... ...has this element in it...
...都有性的成分... ...in detail...
...细节的描述... ...every day.
...每天都有。 You are following? I don't have to tell you all this.
你们跟上了么？我没必要告诉你们这些。 Everyday it is emphasised...
每天都强调着... ...sexuality - I am not talking about homo- or heterosexuality...
...性行为- 我不是在讨论异性恋或者同性恋... ...general sexuality.
...而是广义的性行为。 Why have human beings given such great importance to this?
为什么人类对此给予了巨大重视？ And if it is not important you feel there is something wrong with you...
如果这并不重要，你就觉得自己好像出了问题一样... ...that you are neurotic, that you have to fulfil...
...你觉得自己神经质，觉得你需要满足... ...you know, dozens and dozens of explanations by the psychologists...
...你知道，心理学家给出了很多很多的解释... ...by the experts, by the sexual analysts.
...专家和性分析学家也做了很多解释。 Why? Is it pleasure?
为什么？这是不是欢愉？ Remembrance in the pictures of sexuality?
性爱场面的回忆？ You understand?
你明白吗？ Why has man given throughout the ages...
为什么人类世世代代... ...such extraordinary importance to this?
给它赋予了极大的重要性？ If you are deprived of it you feel something terrible has happened.
如果你被剥夺了性，你会觉得有可怕的事情发生了。 And you can voluntarily say, I won't have any...
你可以自愿地说，我不要性... ...I will become a celibate, and join a monastery...
...我要成为独身者，去加入一个修道院... ...or not join a monastery, or remain a celibate...
...或者不去加入修道院，而保持着独身... ...with all the problems of celibacy. Right?
...带着所有独身的问题。对不对？ So what is the question?
那么问题是什么呢？ Why has this thing...
为什么这件事... ...been given such a place in life?
...在生活中被赋予了如此地位？ It is part of life. Right?
它是生活的一部分。对不对？ Part of walking, seeing, running...
走路、观察、跑步... ...laughing, tears - it is part of life.
...欢笑、泪水-这都是生活的一部分。 But why has this one thing taken importance?
但为什么单单性如此重要？ And it is being encouraged very carefully.
并且这件事被十分小心地鼓励着。 Right?
对不对？ By the entertaining industry.
被娱乐产业。 Please go into all this.
请认真思考这个问题。 And the psychologists have also encouraged this: fulfil.
并且所有的心理学家也都如此鼓励：去满足性。 And some mothers feel there is something wrong...
有些母亲觉得一些事不对头... ...with their daughter or son who doesn't have a boy- or girlfriend...
...譬如她们的女儿或儿子没有男女朋友... ...after the age of twelve, thirteen.
...在他们十二、三岁之后。 This is all what is happening in the world...
这都是发生在世上的事情... ...especially in this country...
...尤其在这个国家... In the traditional countries like India, and other countries...
在传统的国家譬如印度或其他国家... ...there still...
...人们仍会... ...they say, please wait, don't indulge...
...说，请等等，不要纵欲... ...wait until you are twenty or twenty two, or whatever it is.
...等到你20岁或22岁，不管究竟几岁。 So seeing all this...
那么看到这些... ...what does one learn from all this?
...人们从中学到了什么？ Learn, not moral...
不是学到道德... ...not morality, not celibacy and so on...
...不是美德、不是独身主义等等... ...but what does one learn from all this?
...而是人们从中懂得了什么？ Come on, sirs!
想一想，先生们！ Religions throughout the world, the ancient...
全世界的宗教，古老的... ...I won't call them the very ancient...
...我不想称它们非常古老... ...the Hindus, the Buddhists, Christianity...
...印度教徒，佛教徒，基督教徒... ...have always said, be a celibate...
...都总是讲，做一个独身者... ...if you want to follow God be a celibate.
...如果你想追随上帝，那么做一个独身者。 Why?
为什么？ And they take vows of celibacy...
于是他们发誓要独身... ...join monasteries, become a monk...
...加入修道院，成为一个修道士... ...a wandering monk, as they do in India...
...一个游方僧人，就像在印度那样... ...and go through tortures with this.
...并承受着痛苦的折磨。 Right?
对不对？ They have taken a vow, they must stick to it.
他们发了誓，他们得遵守誓言。 I don't know why they take a vow first...
我不明白他们为什么要先发誓... ...but once you have taken a vow...
...但你一旦发过誓... ...you have to follow that...
...你就要遵守誓言... ...which you have accepted.
...这个你已经接受的誓言。 But psychologically, inwardly, the glands...
但从心理上看，从内心上看，各个器官... ...everything is functioning, and you have a terrible time.
...还是照常工作，所以你就有了痛苦。 The speaker has talked to many, many of them.
我和很多很多这样的人交谈过。 They go through hell.
他们经历了地狱般的生活。 Religion has done that.
这都是宗教造成的。 You know all this, don't you?
你们都知道这些，是不是？ And one asks...
所以有人问... ...why has man...
...为什么人类... ...said to himself: to achieve the most sublime...
...对自己说：想要达到至高无上的境界... ...you must be a celibate?
...你就必须独身？ Do you understand?
你们明白吗？ That is, you must torture yourself...
也就是，你必须折磨你自己... ...go through agonies...
...经历诸多痛苦... ...and then you will be nearer god.
...你才会更接近上帝。 It seems so childish, the whole thing. Sorry!
这看起来很幼稚，所有这些。抱歉！ I have met many, many sannyasis, in India, monks.
我见过太多太多遁世者，在印度，僧侣。 I won't go into the details of it...
我不想描述相关细节... ...they have tortured themselves in every way.
...他们以各种方式折磨着自己。 Because the popular opinion is that...
因为主流观念认为... ...to reach god, to reach the highest...
...想要触到上帝，触及至高无上... ...you must live a life of absolute abstinence.
...你就必须过一种绝对禁欲的生活。 Which means...
这意味着... ...human beings have never understood what is austerity.
...人类从未明白什么是苦行。 May we go into that? You are not bored with all this?
我们要不要讨论这个问题？你们对这些不感到无聊吧？ I don't mind if you are bored.
我不介意你们感到无聊。 Probably you don't want to go into all this...
可能你们不想讨论这个问题... ...it may disturb you very much.
...这可能会令你十分不适。 Please don't be disturbed because we are dealing with facts.
请不要觉得这是个困扰，因为我们在面对事实。 What is austerity?
什么是苦行？ You know, the root meaning of that word...
你知道，这个词的根本意思... ...as we explained the other day...
...就如我们那天解释的一样... ...to be austere means to have, in Greek...
...在希腊语中，苦行意味着... ...a dry mouth...
...口干舌燥... ...not from drinks...
...不是不喝水... ...but a dry mouth, which is to be harsh...
...而是有一张口渴的嘴，那意味着变得严酷... ...to be sharp...
...敏锐... ...to be dry.
...干燥。 And so gradually the human being...
所以人们逐渐地... ...has this idea it must be austere...
...有了必须要苦行的想法... ...and has made himself into ashes.
...于是让自己化为了灰烬。 You understand?
你们明白吗？ When you are forcing yourself day after day...
当你一天天强迫自己... ...month after month, year after year...
...月复一月，年复一年... ...driving yourself, you end up...
...驱使自己，你最终变成了... ...as a dry human being.
...成为一个干枯的人。 And if you indulge also in the other direction...
如果你也在另一个方向放纵... ...you have the same problem.
...你就面临同样的问题。 So can one live a life...
于是一个人能否过一种生活... ...without conflict?
...没有冲突的生活？ You understand?
你们明白吗？ Neither extremes...
不要走任何一种极端... ...which imply conflict...
...那意味着冲突... ...and the sensory demands...
...感官欲望... ...and the suppression of sensory demands.
...和压抑感官欲望之间的冲突。 Can one live without a single battle...
人能不能活着而没有在两者之间的斗争... ...effort, struggle between the two?
...没有努力、矛盾的挣扎？ You understand my question?
你们明白我的问题吗？ That requires a great deal of enquiry...
我们需要深入地去质疑... ...into the whole problem of desire...
...整个问题，有关欲望... ...will, wish...
...意志、愿望... ...and the biological urges.
...以及生理上的冲动。 Do you understand?
你们明白吗？ Do you want to go on with this?
你们想要讨论这个问题吗？ There is a very good question at the end - I just saw it!
这真是一个很好的问题-我正好看到了它！ How is one to live on this earth...
一个人怎样在地球上生活... ...please listen to it...
...请听清... ...how is one to live on this earth...
...一个人怎样在地球上生活... ...without harm or destruction to its beauty...
...没有对地球的美的伤害和破坏... ...without bringing suffering and death to others?
...不给他人带来痛苦和死亡？ How is one to live on this earth...
一个人怎样在地球上生活... ...without harm or destruction to its beauty...
...没有对地球的美的伤害和破坏... ...to the beauty of the earth...
...对世上的美好事物... ...without bringing suffering and death to others?
...没有给他人带来痛苦或死亡？ But we must finish our question which...
但我们必须先结束我们的问题... ...we were talking about previously.
...我们之前所讨论的问题。 What time is it, sir?
几点了，先生？ Could we bear another quarter of an hour?
我们能否再忍受一刻钟？ Are you working the same as the speaker is working...
你现在正和我一起工作吗... ...or are you just listening?
...还是你仅仅是在听？ Is your brain as active, working...
你的大脑是在运转、工作... ...enquiring, doubting...
...询问、质疑... ...intense to find out...
...强烈地想找出... ...a way of living something totally different?
...一种生活方式，完全不同的方式吗？ We were saying, to live a life without conflict...
我们说的是，一种没有冲突的生活... ...requires an investigation into the whole question of desire...
...需要对整个有关欲望的问题深入研究... ...which is a very, very complex problem.
...这是个非常非常复杂的问题。 Do you really want to go into all that?
你们真的想探究这些？ No, I am not asking out of encouragement...
不，我不是出于鼓励才这么问的... ...I am just asking.
...我只是在问。 It is a very serious thing that we are undertaking.
我们正在讨论一件非常严肃的事情。 It is no good just merely listening and repeating...
如果仅仅是听从并重复，那将没有任何益处... ...that has no meaning at all.
...没有任何意义。 But seeing what the facts are in this world...
但看到存在于世界的事实是什么... ...what is actually taking place in the world...
...世上真正发生了什么... ...not only in this country but in every country...
...不仅仅在这个国家还有其他任何国家... ...in so-called every culture.
...在每种所谓的文化之中。 And conflict in man is increasing more and more and more...
人类的冲突变得越来越多... ...not less and less.
...而不是越来越少。 Man means woman and man...
人意味着男人和女人... ...so please don't get excited about it...
...所以对此不要感到惊讶... ...why don't I talk about women.
...为何我没有提及女人。 Unless one understands very deeply the movement of desire...
除非一个人深深地明白欲望的运作... ...not the description of it...
...而不是欲望的描述... ...not the explanation of it...
...也不是对欲望的解释... ...but to enquire why desire becomes so extraordinarily important...
...而是去探询欲望为什么变得如此超乎寻常的重要... ...desire to become successful, desire to have money...
...希望成功的欲望，拥有金钱的欲望... ...desire for sex, for excitement, for amusement...
...性的欲望，兴奋、娱乐的欲望... ...you follow?..
...你们跟上了吗？... ...the tremendous urge and the speed of it...
...欲望巨大的驱动力以及它运转的速度... ...and the demand for its fulfilment.
...还有想要实现欲望本身的愿望。 Again religions have said, you must suppress desire...
再回到宗教，它会说，你必须压制欲望... ...which means another battle, another conflict, another torture.
...这也就意味着另一种争斗,另一种冲突,另一种折磨的产生. You know, religion has played havoc with human beings.
你知道,宗教曾给人类带来巨大的破坏。 And they are still doing it...
而且它也依然如此... ...not only in the Christian world...
...不仅仅在基督教的世界... ...but in the whole world...
...而是在整个世界... ...the Islamic world, look what they are doing in Iran and Iraq.
...在伊斯兰世界，看看宗教在伊朗和伊拉克之间做了什么。 Don't talk about it!
不要谈论那些了！ So what is desire?
那么什么是欲望？ Please understand we are not trying to suppress it...
请一定要清楚我们不是在压制它... ...or encourage it, but it is a fact.
...或者鼓励它，而是它是一个事实。 The fact is that we are driven by desire.
事实就是我们被欲望驱使。 And to thwart it is pain.
抗衡就会痛苦。 Right?
对不对？ A sense of not being able to fulfil.
一种不能满足的感觉。 So at any cost, at any price we want the fulfilment of desire.
所以不论以任何代价，我们都要满足欲望。 You may say, 'Desire for god...
你可能会说，“对于上帝的渴求... ...desire for understanding' - it is still desire.
...想要了解的欲望”-这还是欲望。 Gosh, must I go into all this?
天，我必须深入所有这些么？ When you look at a tree...
当你看着一棵树... ...and the beauty of the tree...
...观看树的美... ...the light upon the leaf...
...照在树叶上的阳光... ...and the mountains beyond it, the valleys...
...以及远处的山脉、峡谷... ...the shades and the dappled light...
...光的阴影与斑驳... ...and see that enormous beauty of the earth...
...看到这世上巨大的美... ...that is sensation.
...这叫做感受。 Right?
对不对？ I won't go into the question, is beauty a sensation...
我不想讨论这个问题，美是不是感官感受... I am not going into that, that's another problem.
我不想谈它，这是另一个问题。 No, not a problem, that is quite another thing...
不，不是一个问题，它是另一件事情... ...very interesting if you go into it: is beauty a sensation?
...如果你深入探究，它将一件非常有趣的事情：美是感官感受吗？ When you see all that, the earth and its beauty...
当你观察到这些，世界及它的美... ...it is a sensation.
...这是感受。 Right?
对不对？ Seeing with the optical eyes, with the eyes...
用光学的视觉去看，用眼睛去看... ...and the seeing, the very seeing arouses the sensations.
...这种看到，这种观察本身便唤起了感受。 Right?
对不对？ Seeing a beautiful woman or a man...
看到一个漂亮的女人或男人... ...arouses various kinds of sensations.
...唤起了很多种感受。 Then that sensation is correct, isn't it?
Normal, healthy, natural...
这种感受是正确的，不是么？正常的、健康的、自然的... ...unless one is paralysed, blind, and deaf, and dumb.
...除非一个人瘫痪了，失明、失聪、哑掉。 That is, when one is sensitive...
也就是，当一个人敏感的时候... ...one is acutely aware of all this.
...他就能精确地觉察到这些。 And you see this.
你们看到了这些。 There is perception of all this.
有了对所有这些的觉察。 Then what takes place?
然后什么发生了？ You are looking at those hills.
你看着这些山脉。 The seeing of those hills...
这些山脉的景象... ...arouses certain sensations.
...唤起了某种感受。 Then what is the next step to that?
这之后下一步是什么？ Enquire, please, look at it.
问问看，真的，认真想。 Doesn't then thought come in and say...
思想不就产生出来了么，并说... ...what a beautiful thing that is?
...这是种多么美好的事物？ Right?
对不对？ Thought then creates an image...
思想建立了一种印象... ...out of that sensation.
...从那感受中产生了意象。 Right?
对不对？ I am not saying anything that is not factual...
我没有谈论任何不真实的事情... ...this is not supposition or fictitious.
...这不是推测的或者虚构的。 Sensation - contact, sensation...
感受-联系，感知... ...then thought makes an image of that sensation.
...然后思想就制造了那感受的映像。 Right? Are you following?
对不对？你们跟上了么？ When thought makes an image out of that sensation...
当思想从原本的感知制造出一个映像时... ...then desire is born.
...欲望就产生了。 Sensation is not desire.
感受不是欲望。 Sensation is sensation.
感知就是感知。 But when thought comes and says, yes, what a lovely thing that is...
但思想产生并说，啊，这是多么美好的事物... ...what a lovely dress that is...
...多么可爱的衣裙... ...nice shirt - being a man, nice shirt...
...漂亮的衬衫-作为一个男人，漂亮的衬衫... ...or a woman says, nice dress.
...或者一个女人说，漂亮的衣裙。 Goes inside, touches it, feels it...
再往深些，触摸它，感觉它... ...puts it on, and then thought says...
...穿在身上，然后思想说... ...how beautiful I look.
...我多么漂亮。 That's a nice shirt on me.
我穿着一件漂亮的衬衫。 Then desire is born. You understand this?
然后欲望产生了。你们明白这点么？ This is a fact.
这就是事实。 It is not something theoretical, it is a fact.
这不是什么理论的东西，这就是事实。 Now the question is, if you go into it much deeper...
现在的问题是，如果你深入进去... ...sensation...
...感受... ...seeing a beautiful painting...
...看到一幅美丽的油画... ...beautifully framed and beautifully lit, marvellous...
...华丽的相框以及漂亮的光照着，棒极了... ...that is a sensation.
...这是感受。 Then the thought says, I wish I had that in my room.
然后思想说，我希望它挂在我的屋里。 Then when the thought...
于是当思想... ...assumes the authority over sensation desire is born.
...承担起超越感知的权利，欲望就产生了。 Now the question is...
现在的问题是... ...can sensation and thought be kept apart?
...感受和思想能否分离？ Go into this.
认真想想。 Not through will, through compulsion, effort and all that...
不是通过意志、强迫、努力和其他什么... ...we are asking a very serious and very simple question.
...我们正在问一个非常严肃非常简单的问题。 Sensation is natural, thought is also somewhat natural...
感受是自然的，思想也可以说是自然的... ...with its image.
...伴随着映像。 That's what happens.
这就是发生的一切。 Now can there be a gap, an interval, a hiatus...
那么是否有一道鸿沟，或者间隔、空隙... ...so that sensation and thought are separate?
...以至于感受和思想是分离的？ You understand?
你们明白吗？ See what is implied in it.
想想这意味着什么。 It requires tremendous attention...
这需要极大的注意力... ...great watchfulness.
...巨大的警觉。 Seeing, sensation.
看见，感知。 The speaker has seen some most beautiful things in the world...
讲话者已经见过世界上一些最美的东西... ...beautiful cars...
...美丽的汽车... ...beautiful people...
...美丽的人们... ...please I am not using that in the common sense...
...请注意我不是在通常的意义上说这些... ...beautiful people.
...美丽的人们。 Never mind.
没关系。 So it is natural to look at this world, this enormous beauty...
观看这个世界是很自然的事，观看非比寻常的美丽... ...the destruction, what human beings are doing to the earth...
...观看人类正给地球造成的破坏... ...and see some of the most beautiful gardens in the world...
...观看世上最漂亮的那些花园... ...houses, palaces, and so on...
...房屋、宫殿等等... ...we have lived in them and all that.
...我们生活在其中，所有这些。 And never to be identified with any of it.
永远也不要和它们中任何一件事物认同在一起。 Oh, you don't know all this.
噢，你不知道这些。 Never asked, 'I wish I had it'. You understand?
从来不曾要求，“我希望我能拥有它”。你们明白吗？ That requires great perception, watchfulness and clarity.
这需要很多的觉察、警醒和清澈。 And all that implies a sense...
所有这些都意味着... ...of great inward learning, which is discipline.
...强烈的内心学习，也就是纪律。 Learning is discipline, not conformity. Do you understand?
学习是纪律，不是顺从。你们明白吗？ 4th QUESTION: Last question. How is one to live on this earth...
第四个问题：最后一个问题。一个人该怎样活在世上... ...without harm or destruction to its beauty...
...而不对其美好做任何伤害或破坏... ...without bringing suffering and death to others?
...不给别人带来痛苦或死亡？ How is one to live on this earth without harm or destruction...
一个人该怎样活在世上而不伤害或破坏... ...to its beauty, without bringing suffering and death to others?
其美好，不给别人带来痛苦或死亡？ Have you ever asked this question?
你们问过这样的问题吗？ Actually?
事实上？ Not theoretically but actually put that question, face it.
不是理论上而是真正地思考这个问题，面对它。 Don't run away from it, not explain...
不要离开问题本身，不要解释说... ...it is necessary and all the rest of it...
...这是必要的或者其他什么... ...but look at it, confront it.
...而是观察它，面对它。 Have you ever asked such a question?
你们问过这样的问题吗？ Not en masse, make a demonstration...
不是一同进行一次示威游行... ...against some politician...
...抵制某位政客... ...who wants to destroy a National Park or this or that.
...因为他想要破坏一个国家公园或者什么。 To ask such a question...
问这样一个问题... ...that means you are burning with it...
...意味着你们对此有激情... ...it is something tremendously real...
...这是一件极为真实的事情... ...not just a fanciful question to pass the time of day.
...而不是一个想象的问题，为了消磨一天的时间。 To live on this earth...
要在世上生活... ...with its extraordinary beauty...
...伴随世界的无限美丽... ...and not to destroy it...
...不要去毁灭它... ...and to end sorrow...
...去终结悲伤... ...and not kill another...
...不要杀害他人... ...not kill another human being...
...不要杀害其他人类... ...not kill a living human thing.
...不要杀害一个活着的人。 There are those people in India, a certain sect...
印度某个宗派的人士... ...their transportation is to walk...
...他们的交通方式就是徒步... ...they take no trains...
...他们不坐火车... ...no aeroplanes, no carriages, nothing but walk...
...没有飞机、没有马车，只靠行走... ...and they put on a mask not to kill an insect by breathing.
...他们戴着面具以免呼吸时杀害昆虫。 You understand? There is a whole group of them.
你明白吗？这些人有一大群。 Some of that group came to see the speaker...
这组织里的一些人来见讲话者... ...and they walked eight hundred miles...
...他们走过800英里... ...from April to January...
...从4月到7月... ...and never taking any transportation except walking.
...除了行走从不乘坐任何交通工具. And they won't kill.
他们不杀生。 And there are those who kill...
还存在一些人，他们杀生... ...kill for sport, kill for amusement...
...为了好玩，为了娱乐... ...kill for profit...
...为了利益... ...the whole meat industry.
...整个肉品工业就是这样。 Right?
对不对？ Destroy the earth, to dump poisonous gas...
毁灭地球，排泄有毒气体... ...you know all that is happening in this country...
...你知道所有这些都在这个国家发生着... ...pollute the air, the waters...
...污染空气、水资源... ...and pollute each other.
...污染彼此。 This is what we are doing to the earth and to ourselves.
这就是我们正在对地球和我们自己所做的事情。 And the questioner asks...
于是提问者问道... ...can we live on this earth...
...我们能否生活于地球... ...with its great beauty...
...伴随着它的美丽... ...and not bring suffering to others or death.
...而不为别人带来痛苦和死亡。 It is a very, very serious question.
这是一个非常非常严肃的问题。 To live a life without causing suffering to others...
要想生活中不给别人造成痛苦... ...or causing death to others...
...或者造成死亡... ...that means not killing a human being...
...这意味着不杀害人类... ...not killing any animal...
...不杀害任何动物... ...for sport, for your food.
...为了好玩，为了食物。 You understand all this?
你们明白这些么？ This is the question.
问题就是这个。 There were a certain class of people in India...
在印度存在这样一群人... ...at a certain time...
...在某个时代... ...they never ate meat.
...他们从不吃肉...。 They thought killing was wrong.
他们认为杀生是错误的。 They were called at the time, Brahmins.
他们在那时候被称为婆罗门。 And the western civilisation has never enquired into...
而西方文明从未想过... ...whether killing is right...
...杀生是否不对... ...whether killing any living thing is justified.
...杀害任何一个活着的生命是否公正。 In itself.
本身是否公正。 The western world has destroyed whole races of people.
西方世界毁灭了很多人类种族。 Right?
对不对？ This country has destroyed the Indians of this country...
这个国家毁灭了国内的印第安人... ...wiped them out...
...把他们消灭... ...because they wanted land, and all that.
...因为他们需要土地，以及等等。 So can we live on this earth without killing, without war?
所以我们能居住在世上而没有屠杀、没有战争么？ I can answer it, but what value has it to you...
我可以回答这个问题，但这对你们来说有什么价值吗... ...because you are killing?
...因为你们还在杀戮？ I am not advocating vegetarianism.
我不是在鼓吹素食主义。 Some author wrote some time ago...
某个作家过去曾写作... ...a cutting was sent to me...
...把某些段落寄给了我... ...he wrote saying: 'vegetarianism is spreading...
...他写道：“素食主义在传播... ...like some foul disease in this country.'
...就像邪恶的疾病在这个国家传播一样。” Even if you kill a cabbage.
即使你杀害了一个卷心菜。 Right?
对不对？ So where do you draw the line?
那么你在哪里画这道线？ Do you make a problem of it?
你是否对此产生了问题？ Do you understand my question?
你明白我的问题吗？ If you are against war, as certain human beings are, including myself...
如果你反对战争，当然某些人会如此，包括我在内... ...against war, killing other human beings for whatever reason...
...反对战争，不论什么原因去杀害人类... ...then you cannot post a letter. Right?
...那么你就不能去寄信。对不对？ The stamp you buy, the food you get...
你买的邮票，你弄到的食物... ...all that, part of it goes to defence, armament.
...所有这些，一部分都去用作防御、军备。 If you buy petrol - gas in this country - part of that goes...
如果你在这个国家买汽油- 其中的一部分... ...your tax, part of it goes, and so on, so on.
...成为你的税款，其他部分成为这些、那些等等。 So what will you do?
然后你会怎么做？ If you don't pay taxes you are fined or sent to jail.
如果你不交税你会被罚款或者抓进监狱。 If you don't buy stamps you can't write letters, you can't travel.
如果你不买邮票你不能写信，你不能旅行。 Right?
对不对？ Are you following all this? It amuses you?
你们都跟上这些了么？这令你们发笑了？ So you drive yourself into a corner.
所以你去往一个角落。 And living in a corner seems rather futile.
生活在一个角落依然是徒劳的。 So what will you do?
你将会做什么？ If you say, I won't travel, I won't write a letter...
如果你说，我不旅行，我不写信... ...all this helps to maintain the army, and navy, and armaments...
...所有这些都有助于维持陆军、海军以及军备... ...nationalities, you follow, the whole racket of it.
...民族主义，你知道，所有这些勾当。 Or would you approach it differently?
或者你会以不同的方式处理？ Why do we kill?
我们为什么杀生？ Religions, especially Christianity, have killed probably...
宗教，尤其基督教，或许已经杀害了... ...more people on earth...
...地球上的更多人类... ...they have tortured people...
...他们折磨人们... ...called them heretics, burnt them.
...称他们异教徒，焚烧他们。 You know all the history of it.
你们知道这些历史。 The Muslims have done it, the Islamic world has done it...
穆斯林这么做了，伊斯兰世界这么做了... ...probably the Hindus and the Buddhists are the only people...
...可能印度教徒和佛教徒是仅有的一些人... ...their religions forbid.
...他们的宗教禁止如此。 How can one live on this earth without killing another...
一个人如何活在世上而不杀害他人... ...and causing suffering for another?
...并且不给他人带来痛苦？ To go into this question very deeply, really...
认真地思考这个问题，深刻地真正地... ...it is a very, very serious question...
...这是个非常严肃的问题... ...is there that quality of love that answered this question?
...是否存在一种爱的品质可以回答这个问题？ If you love another, if you love another human being...
如果你爱别人，如果你爱其他人类... ...are you willing to kill that human being?
...你会愿意去杀害那些人吗？ Would you then kill anything...
你还会杀害任何生命么... ...except you need certain food...
...除非你确实需要食物... ...vegetables, nuts and so on, milk...
...蔬菜、坚果等等，牛奶... ...but apart from that would you kill anything?
...但是除此之外你会杀害生灵么？ Go into all these questions, sir, and live it...
思考一下这个问题，先生，把它活出来... ...for god's sake, don't talk about it.
...看在上帝的份上，不要只是谈论它。 What is dividing the world is ideals...
是理想主义、意识形态在分裂着世界... ...the ideology of one group against another group.
...一个组织相对于另一个组织的意识形态。 This eternal division, apparently an everlasting division...
这种永恒的分裂，很明显是一种永远持续的分裂... ...between man, woman, and so on.
...在男性和女性之间，以及等等。 They have tried to bridge this through logic, through reason...
人们试图通过逻辑、推理在其间搭建桥梁... ...through various institutions and foundations and organisations...
...通过各种机构、基金会、组织... ...and they have not succeeded in any way.
...但他们从未成功过。 This is a fact.
这就是事实。 Knowledge has not solved this problem either...
知识也没有解决这个问题... ...knowledge in the sense of accumulated experience and so on.
...经验积累意义上的知识等等。 And thought has certainly not solved this problem.
思想也当然没有解决这个问题。 So there is only one issue out of it...
所以对此只有一件事情... ...to discover or find out what is love.
...那就是去寻找或发现什么是爱。 Love is not desire, love is not possession, love is not selfish...
爱不是欲望，爱不是占有，爱不是自私... ...egocentric activity...
...不是自我中心的行为... ...me first and you second.
...我首先而你其次。 And apparently that love has no meaning to most people.
很明显，这种爱对大多数人来说都没有意义。 They may write books about it, but it has no meaning.
人们可能为此写书，但这没有意义。 So is there that quality, that perfume...
那么到底有没有那种品质、那种芬芳... ...that fire, that compassion;
...那种火焰、那种慈悲； ...and compassion has its intelligence...
...而慈悲拥有自身的智慧... ...that is supreme intelligence.
...那是至高无上的智慧。 When there is that intelligence which is born of compassion, love...
当有这种智慧时慈悲和爱就产生了... ...then all these problems will be solved simply, quietly.
...之后所有的问题都会被轻易地、悄悄地解决。 But we never pursue the question to the very end.
但我们从未把这个问题追问到底。 We may pursue it intellectually, verbally...
我们可能智力上、语言上追问它了... ...but to do it with your heart, with your mind...
...但是要用你的心、你的心灵去做到... ...with your passion behind it...
...用其中的热情去做... ...then the earth will remain beautiful.
...那么，世界将会继续美好。 And then there is a great sense of beauty in oneself.
而你自己的内在也会有一种巨大的美的感觉。 | 
发表于 2009-11-3 08:41
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