Attention and Order 1
注意力与秩序 讲话一
Ojai California, 1984
加州欧亥，1984年
If I may I would like to point out...
如果可以，我想指出...
...that this is not an entertainment.
...这不是一种娱乐。
This is a serious gathering...
这是一场严肃的聚会...
...as we are going to explore together...
...因为我们要一起探索...
...the various issues of life.
...生命的很多问题。
And also this is not a lecture as is generally understood.
这也不是通常意义上的一场讲座。
A lecture is to inform...
讲座是为了告诉你...
...to instruct and to persuade you...
...指导你和说服你...
...to think in a particular way...
...以某种特定的方式思考...
...or be so knowledgeable and be thoroughly informed.
...或者变得知识渊博、见多识广。
So this is not a lecture.
所以这不是一场讲座。
Nor is it propaganda to propagate...
也不是一场宣传活动，用来宣传...
...certain ideas, beliefs...
...某种观点，信仰...
...or some romantic or reasonable conclusions.
...或者某些浪漫的或合理的结论。
But rather we are going to think over together...
而是，我们要一起思考...
...the many complex problems of our daily life.
...我们日常生活中很多复杂的问题。
And in no way is the speaker...
讲话者绝不是在...
...trying to convince you of anything...
...试图让你确信什么...
...nor to persuade you...
...也不是要说服你...
...to accept some romantic, exotic...
...接受某些浪漫的，奇异的...
...or some philosophical concepts and ideals.
...或者哲学的概念和理想。
This must be made perfectly clear...
必须要完全清楚...
...that we are not encouraging...
...我们不是在鼓励...
...or stimulating, or trying in any way to direct...
...或者激励，也不是试图用任何方式指导你...
...but rather together...
...而是，一起...
...you and the speaker...
...你们和讲话者一起...
...go into the very many issues, problems that we have.
...深入探讨我们的很多疑问和问题。
It is not merely that you are listening to the speaker...
不只是你们听讲话者说话而已...
...but though you are listening to him...
...而是，尽管你在听他说话...
...you are also watching...
...你同时也在观察...
...considering your own reactions...
...注意到你自己的反应...
...your own conclusions, your own experiences.
...你自己的结论，你自己的经验。
And we are going to question, doubt...
我们要探询，质疑...
...have a great deal of scepticism...
...抱有大量的怀疑态度...
...without cynicism...
...而不是玩世不恭...
...because most people are very gullible.
...因为大多数人都很容易上当受骗。
We have been made gullible by experts...
专家让我们容易上当受骗...
...whether they be experts...
...不管他们是...
...along philosophical lines, or psychological...
...哲学家，还是心理学家...
...or scientific, or biological and so on.
...还是科学家、生物学家，等等。
We never seem to question ourselves or...
我们好像从来不质疑我们自己或者...
...the authorities, the people who know...
...权威们，那些人知道...
...who assert, specially those people...
...那些人断言，特别是那些...
...who come from the Asiatic countries...
...从亚洲国家来的人...
...with their peculiar beliefs...
...带来他们特定的信仰...
...and religious dogmas and superstitions.
...宗教教条和迷信。
So please from the very beginning of these talks...
所以，请从这些讲话一开始...
...and questions and answers...
...从问题和答案开始...
...we are going to question everything.
...我们就要质疑每一件事。
We are going to have a great deal of scepticism...
我们要始终抱有怀疑态度...
...including what the speaker is saying...
...包括讲话者说的话...
...question it, doubt it...
...要质疑，怀疑这些话...
...find out, if one may respectfully point out...
...如果我可以谦卑地指出的话，去发现...
...what is true...
...什么是真实的...
...to be able to be sensitive enough...
...要能足够敏感...
...so that one captures...
...那么就不仅仅能够把握...
...not only the verbal meaning...
...字面上的意思...
...but also what lies behind the words...
...而且能捕捉到语言背后的东西...
...the content of the words.
...话语的含义是什么。
Not only the etymological meaning of the words...
不只是那些词语在语源学上的意思...
...but also the quality...
...还有那话语的...
...the beauty, the strength of a word.
...品质，美和力量。
Because most of us are caught in a network of words...
因为我们大多被困在语言的网络里...
...our whole thinking process is a verbalisation...
...我们整个思维过程都是在用语言进行的...
...making pictures or images...
...制造画面或者意象...
...and we are caught in all that...
...我们被困在其中...
...so we never actually are free from words and...
...所以我们从未真正从语言中解脱出来过...
...ready to go beyond the word...
....从未准备好超越语言之外...
...or the explanation, or the description.
...超越解释，或者描述之外。
If we could this morning and the following days...
我们能否在今天上午，还有接下来的几天里...
...be very clear on these matters...
...能够清楚这几件事...
...that the speaker has no authority whatsoever...
...也就是，讲话者没有任何权威...
...he is not a professional...
...他不是一个专业人士...
...not an expert of any kind...
...不是任何一种专家...
...because to the speaker that is rather frightening...
...因为对讲话者来说，做某种方面的专家...
...to be an expert about something.
...是很恐怖的事情。
But if we could together...
而是，我们能不能一起...
...we mean together...
...我们的意思是一起...
...take a very, very long journey...
...进行一次很长，很长的旅行...
...a timeless journey...
...一次没有时间的旅行...
...into the very complex structure of the human psyche...
...深入人类心智那非常复杂的结构中去...
...of what we are...
...探询我们是什么...
...why we are behaving the way we do...
...我们为什么如此行为...
...why we have all these crowding thoughts...
...我们为什么有这么多拥挤的思想...
...one after the other...
...一个接一个的思绪...
...ceaselessly chattering.
...总是喋喋不休。
If we could together amicably...
我们是否可以一起友好地...
...as friends do, take a long walk...
...像朋友一样，散一个长长的步...
...into an area that...
...进入一个领域...
...superficially we have scratched...
...我们曾肤浅地草草带过...
...superficially we have had innumerable descriptions...
...曾经无数次肤浅地描述过的一个领域...
...explanations by the professionals...
...专家解释过...
...the psychologists, the psychiatrists...
...心理学家，精神分析家描述过...
...the biologists, the archaeologists and so on.
...生物学家，考古学家等等都描述过。
But if we could put aside all that for the time being...
但是，我们现在是否能够把那些都放在一边...
...though it may perhaps have a certain value at other times...
...即使它们可能在别的时候有某种价值...
...but if we could this morning...
...但是，我们今天上午是否可以...
...like two friends talking over their problems.
...像两个朋友那样讨论自己的问题。
We have problems, life is full of problems...
我们有很多问题，生活中充满了问题...
...from the moment we are born until we die.
...从生到死都是如此。
And we seem to be unable to resolve any of these problems.
我们似乎没有能力解决其中的任何一个问题。
On the contrary, as a civilization...
正相反，一个文明发展的过程中...
...whatever that word may mean...
...不管文明这个词有什么含义...
...grows, we seem to be multiplying problems.
...我们看起来是在增加问题。
And we never seem to be able...
我们从未能够...
...to be free of all problems...
...从所有的问题中解脱...
...and to live a life...
...从未过着一种...
...that is without a single shadow of a problem.
...完全没有问题的阴影的生活。
Into all this we are going to take a journey.
对于所有这些，我们将开始一场旅行。
You are responsible for taking the journey...
你们有责任进行这次旅行...
...because you have come here...
...因为你们来到了这里...
...though it is rather hot, and I hope...
...尽管天气很热，我希望...
...you will be careful not to smoke...
...你们能够注意不要吸烟...
...because it is much too dangerous.
...因为这太危险了。
It's your responsibility as a human being to find out...
作为一个人，你有责任去发现...
...why after fifty thousand years or more or less...
...为什么过了差不多五万年...
...we are what we are.
...我们会是现在这样。
During the long period of evolution...
在长期的进化过程中...
...from the most primitive brain...
...从最原始的大脑...
...to the highly sophisticated brain that we have...
...到我们现在拥有的高度发达的大脑...
...why during all this period...
...为什么在这个过程中...
...of vast experience, knowledge...
...拥有了大量的体验，知识...
...incidents, so-called evolution...
...经历了许多事件和所谓的进化...
...why we are still what we are...
...为什么我们还是老样子...
...primitive psychologically...
...心理上还是那么原始...
...hating, violent, superstitious...
...仇恨，暴力，迷信...
...killing each other...
...互相残杀...
...accepting one authority after another.
...接受一个又一个权威。
I do not know if you have noticed in this country...
我不知道你们是否注意到这个国家里...
...there are experts who tell you how to dress...
...有专家告诉你如何穿着...
...how to make up your face, how to have sex...
...怎样给你的脸化妆，如何进行性行为...
...how to bring up babies, how to read.
...如何抚养孩子，如何阅读。
And all the politicians tell you what to do.
所有的政客都告诉你应该做什么。
If you have noticed, perhaps you...
如果你注意到了，也可能你...
...do not notice as you are too close to it...
...并没有注意到，因为你离这些都太近了...
...when you come to this country from abroad...
...当你从外国来到这个国家...
...you notice all these things all over again.
...你再一次注意到所有这些事情。
They are telling you, everybody: the newspapers, the magazines...
他们在告诉你，告诉每个人：报纸，杂志...
...the priests, the evangelists...
...神父，福音传道者...
...the authorities, the specialists...
...权威，专家...
...the experts, telling you what to do.
...专家来告诉你怎么做。
And this is supposed to be a free country...
大家认为这是个自由的国家...
...supposed to be free people who are capable...
...人们能够自由地...
...of thinking things out for themselves...
...为自己的事情思考...
...capable of dealing with their own lives...
...能够处置自己的生活...
...either righteously or unrighteously.
...不管处理得当还是处理不当。
One wonders why a young nation like this is so caught up...
一个人会奇怪，为什么这样一个年轻的国家会如此受制于...
...in the travail of experts...
...专家带来的痛苦中...
...so we are losing our own...
...我们因而失去了自己...
...inward stability, clarity...
...内在的稳定和清澈...
...and a sense of behaviour.
...以及对行为的感知。
I do not know if you have noticed all these things.
我不知道你是否注意到了所有这些事情。
Perhaps the speaker may be exaggerating, but I doubt it.
也许讲话者是在夸大其词，而我怀疑这一点。
When he comes from abroad..
他从国外来...
...for a week he listens to all the television...
...他看了一周的电视...
...all the channels, thirteen channels, newspapers, magazines...
...看了所有的频道，十三个频道，报纸，杂志...
...talks to some of the experts, listens to the evangelists...
...和一些专家谈话，听福音传道者布道...
...my god, what a crowd!
...我的天，人可真多啊！
And apparently this country is bent on fun...
而且很显然，这个国家致力于娱乐...
...and success, money...
...成功，金钱...
...and a way of having pleasure superficially.
...肤浅地享受欢愉的方式。
You must have noticed all this too.
你肯定也注意到了所有这些。
So this is the country...
所以，这就是这个国家...
...that is becoming dominant throughout the world...
...这种方式正在主导着全世界...
...from Asia, from India, Europe, they all want go to America...
...他们都想从亚洲，从印度，欧洲去美洲...
...to the States...
...去美国...
...not only to earn more money...
...不只是要挣更多的钱...
...to have the capacity of invention, and so on.
...还要有发明的能力，等等。
So please, if one may repeat it over again...
所以请注意，如果我可以再重复一遍的话...
...we are not experts...
...我们不是专家...
...we are not professionals...
...我们不是专业人士...
...we are in no way instructing you...
...我们绝不是在指导你...
...or telling you what to do.
...或者告诉你做什么。
But rather with great simplicity...
而是，我们怀着巨大的简朴率真...
...with great affection, let us walk together.
...怀着巨大的慈悲，让我们一起散个步。
Together either we walk very fast, or very slowly.
不管我们走的很快，还是很慢，我们是一起的。
But together, explore...
一起来探索...
...into the injustice of this world...
...这个世界的不公正...
...and enquire if there is justice at all...
...探询到底是否有公正...
...why human beings hurt each other...
...为什么人类要互相伤害...
...kill each other...
...互相残杀...
...why belief, faith, ideals...
...为什么信念，信仰，理想...
...are dividing people throughout the world.
...在把世界上的人们分裂开来。
Like the ideology of Russia...
比如俄国的意识形态正...
...and the democratic ideology are at war.
...跟民主制的意识形态作战。
The piling up of armaments throughout the world...
世界各地在囤积军火...
...even the poorest country.
...即使最贫穷的国家也是如此。
You must surely be aware of all this.
你们肯定觉察到了所有这些。
So everybody throughout the world is preparing to kill each other.
所以，世界上的每个人都在准备互相残杀。
Demonstrations to stop a particular kind of war...
有人游行示威反对某一种特定的战争...
...neutron or atomic wars.
...中子战或者原子战争。
But nobody seems to be concerned with stopping all wars.
但是，看起来没人关心停止所有的战争。
There is no demonstration to stop wars, to kill human beings.
没人游行示威要求停止战争，停止残杀人类。
And after these forty, fifty thousand years...
而经过了这四、五万年...
...we are still what we are.
...我们还是老样子。
What has happened? Why are we like this?
发生了什么？为什么我们是这个样子？
Time is supposed to give us understanding...
时间本应带给我们领悟...
...supposed to give us knowledge...
...本应带给我们知识...
...supposed to give us a sense of...
...带给我们一种感觉...
...right or true behaviour, accurate.
...什么是正确的或者准确无误的行为。
But apparently time has not solved any of our problems.
但是显然，时间并没有解决我们的任何问题。
On the contrary.
情况正相反。
What, sir? So right, that light is there purposefully, believe me.
什么，先生？好的，那盏灯是故意安放在那的，相信我。
It's not the sun light unfortunately.
不幸的是，那不是阳光。
So one asks, as one must, talking over together as two friends...
所以，像两个朋友谈话一样，一个人会问，他也必须要问...
...why have we become like this?
...为什么我们变成了这样？
It is not only in this country, it is right throughout the world...
不只是在这个国家，而是遍及整个世界...
...from the most primitive village in Africa, or India...
...从非洲或者印度最原始的村庄...
...to the most highly civilised, so-called civilised people.
...到文明极其发达的，所谓文明的民族，都是如此。
What has happened to us?
我们这是怎么了？
Some may be thoroughly satisfied with what we are...
有些人可能完全满足于我们的现状...
...specially if you are rich, powerful, have status and position...
...特别是如果你富有，有权有势，有地位...
...then you don't question these things.
...那么你就不会质疑这些事情。
But if one is thoroughly dissatisfied...
但是如果一个人完全不满...
...not in revolt - dissatisfied...
...不是反叛-是不满...
...I hope one sees the difference between dissatisfaction and revolt.
...我希望你能看到不满和反叛之间的不同。
If you are dissatisfied, which comes from observing things...
如果你不满，这不满来自于对事情的观察...
...as they are actually...
...如实地观察...
...dissatisfied with all the things...
...对所有事情都不满...
...that man has put together...
...这些人制造的事情...
...then you are beginning to enquire into it.
...那么你就开始了对它的探询。
But if you merely revolt against it...
但是，如果你只是反叛它...
...that revolt is merely a reaction.
...那反叛就只是一种反应。
And we are full of reactions, and therefore we never get any further.
而我们都被反应占满了，所以我们从未走远过。
But if you could, perhaps only this morning, see things as they are...
但是如果你能够，或许只是今天上午能够如实地观察事情本身...
...not according to your particular prejudice or conclusion...
...不受制于你特定的偏见或者结论...
...or ideologies and faith, but things as they are...
...也不受限于意识形态或者信仰，而是如实地观察事情本身...
...not only in your own particular backyard...
...不只观察你自己后院的事情...
...but throughout the world...
...而且观察整个世界...
...the starving, the poor, the uneducated...
...饥饿，贫穷，文盲...
...the extraordinary rich people, tremendous power...
...那些极其富有的人，拥有巨大权力的人...
...in the hands of the few...
...世界掌握在少数人的手里...
...whether it is democratic or communist...
...不管是民主制还是共产主义...
...totalitarian, power, money...
...极权主义，权力，金钱...
...with all that goes with it.
...伴之而来的所有那一切。
So if we could as friends...
所以，如果我们能够像朋友一样...
...not opposed to each other...
...不互相反对...
...not contradicting each other, nor accepting...
...不互相矛盾，也不接受...
...what the other fellow says...
...另一个人说的话...
...but together take this journey.
...而是一起踏上这次旅程。
Which means you, each one of us...
这意味着，我们每一个人...
...whatever speed you would like...
...不管你喜欢什么样的速度...
...walk, but walk...
...一起走，只是走...
...not let the other person do all the talking...
...不是只让另一个人一直说话...
...all the explanations, all the reasons and descriptions...
...一直解释，寻找原因并进行描述...
...together look at it, observe it.
...而是，一起来看，一起观察。
To observe is one of the most difficult things to do.
观察是做起来最困难的事情之一。
To observe without any direction, without any motive...
不带任何方向，不带任何动机地观察...
...without any word...
...也没有任何语言...
...just to observe that tree, for example...
...比方说，只是去观察那棵树...
...without being caught in the word 'tree'...
...而不被困在“树”这个词...
...and all the implications of that word.
...以及这个词的所有含义里面。
If we are so able to observe...
如果我们能够如此地观察...
...ourselves and the world in which we live...
...我们自己和我们生活在其中的世界...
...without any prejudice...
...不带任何偏见...
...without any conclusions...
...不带任何结论...
...from any point of view, whether yours or mine or somebody else's.
...不带任何观点，不管是你的还是别人的观点。
Just to look at it first.
只是先去看。
We see there is a great deal of misery...
我们看到有巨大的苦难...
...a great deal of poverty...
...大量的贫穷...
...or else affluent societies like this country...
...或者像这个国家一样富足的社会...
...though there is poverty in this country...
...尽管这个国家也有贫穷...
...there is war...
...有战争...
...nation against nation, tribe against tribe...
...国家之间，部族之间...
...ideologies against ideologies...
...意识形态之间的战争...
...the Catholic, the Protestant, the Hindu...
...天主教徒，新教徒，印度教徒...
...the Buddhist, the Muslim and so on.
...佛教徒，伊斯兰教徒，等等。
Two thousands years of propaganda of the Christians...
两千年来基督教的宣传...
...and fifteen or sixteen hundred years of propaganda of the Muslims...
...伊斯兰教的宣传也进行了一千五六百年...
...and two or three thousand years or more of the Hindus and the Buddhists.
...印度教和佛教也有两三千年的历史了。
We are slaves to this propaganda called religion...
我们是所谓宗教宣传的奴隶...
...called nations, and so on.
...所谓国家的，等等的奴隶。
The world is at war...
这个世界在开战...
...not only in a particular part of the Mediterranean...
...不只是在地中海沿岸的某个特定地区...
...but there are wars going on - I believe forty wars are going on...
...而且战争一直在进行着-我相信有四十场战争正进行着...
...I have been told, perhaps it is a mistake.
...有人是这么跟我说的，也可能这个说法错了。
So that's observed outwardly, this competition...
那是从外在观察到的，存在着竞争...
...each one out for himself in the name of god...
...每个人出力为己，以上帝之名...
...in the name of psychology...
...以心理学之名...
...in the name of science...
...以科学之名...
...each one is out for himself, for his success...
...每个人都出力为己，为自己的事业...
...for his fame, for his reputation, for his power, and so on.
...自己的名声，自己的名誉，自己的权力，等等。
And also in the world externally individuality is given...
而且在这个世界上，个体性被外在地赋予了...
...tremendous importance...
...极大的重要性...
...each one thinks he is the entire world...
...每个人都觉得自己就是整个世界...
...to do exactly what he wants...
...可以为所欲为...
...to fulfil, to succeed, to compete...
...去追求，去成就，去竞争...
...you know, all the rest of it.
...你知道，所有那些事情。
And also externally so-called religions have divided man too...
同时，所谓的宗教也把人们外在地分裂了...
...the whole Christian world with all its subdivisions...
...整个基督教世界以及它所有的细分...
...and the Buddhist, the Muslim, the Hindu divide.
...佛教，伊斯兰教和印度教也在划分。
And they are also perhaps so-called peacefully at war.
他们或许也声称是为了和平而战。
Perhaps too, if you can listen, observe accurately...
如果你能够精确地聆听和观察，或许你也会发现...
...the Christians have killed more people than anybody else. Right?
...基督教徒杀死的人比其他任何人都多。对不对？
Look at it carefully.
仔细地看一看。
I am not against Christians or Hindus, just observing all this.
我并不是反对基督教或者印度教，我只是在观察这一切。
So externally our society is in chaos.
所以外在地看，我们的社会处于混乱中。
In that society we live...
我们生活的这个社会...
...which is degenerating and dangerously near.
...正在堕落，危险近在眼前。
And so this is the external world in which we live.
这就是我们身在其中的外部世界。
Obviously one asks, who created all this external world...
很显然一个人会问，是谁创造了这个外部世界...
...the society in which we live.
...这个我们生活于其中的社会。
Surely no divine hand has moulded this society.
当然不是神祗塑造了这个社会。
Society is put together by each one of us...
社会是由我们每个人一起造就的...
...through our violence...
...用我们的暴力...
...through our pleasure, through our fears and beliefs and dogmas...
...我们的欢愉，我们的恐惧、信仰和教条造就的...
...through our search for security in the family...
...我们在家庭中寻求安全感...
...in the community, in the nation.
...在社区里，在国家里寻求安全感，这都造就了这个社会。
We have created this society, each one of us...
我们创造了这个社会，是我们每个人...
...and there is no question about that.
...这是毫无疑问的。
We have made the society in which we live.
我们造就了我们生活于其中的这个社会。
And there are the reformers, like the communists...
有些改革者，比如共产主义者...
...who wish to alter the structure of the society externally.
...希望从外部改变社会的结构。
The socialists, the totalitarians...
社会主义者，极权主义者...
...and also the democratic people...
...还有民主主义者...
...who through legislation and all the rest of it want to alter...
...想通过立法等手段来改变...
...the organisation of society.
...社会的组织结构。
When that organisation fails they invent another organisation.
当那个组织形式失败了，他们就发明另一种组织。
You must know all this.
你们肯定都知道所有这些。
So organisation by re-organising is called progress. Right?
而重新组织形成新组织，这就叫进步，是不是？
I do not know if you have noticed all these things...
我不知道你们是否注意到了所有这些事情...
...politically, religiously and socially.
...政治上，宗教上，社会上的这些事情。
It happens in the universities, colleges, in professional areas...
大学、学院和专业领域里也发生着这样的事情...
...but we never question deeply, seriously...
...而我们从不深深地严肃地质疑...
...why we live in this society which we have made...
...为什么我们生活在我们制造的这样一个社会里...
...which we have structured, put together.
...这个社会是我们构建的，组合而成的。
And this is the result of forty, fifty thousand years of evolution.
而这是四五万年进化的结果。
Either it is altogether hopeless...
要么这本身就完全无望...
...man will everlastingly live this way...
...人类将永远如此生活...
...because for forty thousand years he has lived this way.
...因为四万年来人类一直是这么生活的。
And if we look to time to change fundamentally...
如果我们寄望于时间带来根本的改变...
...the structure of the psyche, the inwardness of our ways...
...改变心灵的结构，改变我们内心的习惯...
...if we rely on time, another forty thousand years...
...如果我们依赖时间，即使再过四万年...
...we will still be the same.
...我们还会是老样子。
If forty thousand years has not changed us...
如果四万年都没有改变我们...
...another forty thousand years is another game.
...再来一个四万年就是另一个游戏。
So one asks very seriously...
所以一个人要很认真地问...
...my friend and I are talking together...
...我的朋友和我一起谈话...
...walking in a shaded lane where there are a lot of birds and flowers...
...一起漫步在林荫路上，有很多小鸟和花...
...and the beauty of the hills...
...还有美丽的小山...
...is it possible to change the human behaviour?
...改变人类的行为是可能的吗？
Is it possible for a human being...
如果一个人...
...who is so fragmented, so broken up...
...是如此支离破碎...
...so contradictory, so much in conflict...
...如此矛盾，如此冲突重重...
...is it possible to fundamentally...
...有可能从根本上...
...not superficially - through pressure...
...不是肤浅地-通过施压...
...through reward and punishment...
...通过奖惩...
...but deeply...
...而是深深地...
...can there be a mutation...
...发生改变吗...
...not only in the brain cells themselves...
...不仅脑细胞本身...
...but in the whole structure of the psyche...
...而且心灵的整个结构...
...which is self-centred, egotistic...
...那自我中心的，自高自大的...
...utterly concerned with itself?
...完全只关心自己的心灵，能彻底改变吗？
This has been the problem of some of the religious people...
这是一些宗教人士的问题...
...from the ancient of times.
...从古至今的问题。
And those very, very, very few...
那极少，极少的几个人...
...have perhaps broken the chain...
...或许打破了...
...of self-centredness with all its limited selfish activity.
...自我中心、自私自利的行为链条的局限。
And the vast majority of people carry on.
而绝大部分人继续原来的生活。
So we are asking, my friend and I together...
所以我们在问，我的朋友和我一起问...
...is it possible for us to change?
...我们有可能改变吗？
Not change to something else...
不是变成别的东西...
...that is only a becoming.
...那只是一种成为而已。
When you change what you are to what you should be...
如果你从现在的样子变成了你应该的样子...
...that is a form of becoming.
...那就是成为的一种形式。
Right?
对不对？
So that is no change at all.
所以那根本不是改变。
I wonder if you understand this?
我想知道你们是否明白了这点？
If I am greedy, or schizophrenic...
如果我贪婪，或者精神分裂...
...or utterly committed to...
...或者完全沉溺于...
...some kind of amusement and fun, and entertainment...
...某种消遣和娱乐...
...to change from that particular form of entertainment...
...从一种特定的娱乐形式转换到...
...to another form of entertainment is still entertainment.
...另一种娱乐形式，那还是娱乐。
Right?
对不对？
But change implies an ending, not a continuity.
而改变意味着终止，而不是继续。
Are we together in this?
关于这一点，我们在一起吗？
You are the friend walking with the speaker.
你是和讲话者一起散步的朋友。
If this is not clear we must go into it...
如果这一点不清楚，我们就必须深入探讨...
...because it is very important to understand this.
...因为明白这一点很重要。
We must enquire into what is ending.
我们必须探询什么是终止。
Take for example the word 'austerity', 'austere'.
举个例子来说，“简朴”，“朴素的”这些词。
The etymological meaning of that word is to have a dry tongue!
语源学上的词义是，有个干燥的舌头！
Not take alcohol...
不喝酒...
...the root meaning of that word in Greek and so on...
...词根在希腊语里的意思...
...is to have a dry mouth.
...是有张干燥的嘴。
From that arises the word 'harsh'...
从那里产生了“严苛”...
...'dry', a sense of cruel control...
...“禁酒”这些词，有残酷控制的感觉...
...a sense of simplicity, holding to a certain pattern.
...和简单的感觉，坚守某种模式。
Now, austerity - we are not talking in those terms of dryness, harsh...
现在来说简朴-我们不是说禁酒、严苛...
...cruel, cruel discipline, to be austere.
...残忍，残酷的戒律这些意思，而是要简朴。
I wonder if you understand all this.
我想知道你们是不是明白了所有这些。
To have great simplicity inwardly...
内在拥有巨大的简朴...
...that can only happen...
...这只能发生在...
...when there is absolute clarity.
...有绝对的清晰的情况下。
And that can take place when there is an ending...
当终止了不停的放纵沉溺时...
...to constant indulgence, ending.
简朴才可能发生。
Say, for example, if you are a smoker, end it...
比如说，如果你是个吸烟者，终结这个习惯...
...not take a lozenge in its place, chew something else in its place.
...而不是代之以吃止咳糖，或者吃别的东西。
If you are greedy, violent and all the rest of it...
如果你贪婪，暴力，以及其他种种...
...end it, not say, 'I will be something else'.
...终结它，而不是说，“我会成为别的样子”。
We will go into this much more deeply when we talk about death.
我们在谈到死亡时，将会更深入地探讨这个问题。
You don't mind talking about death, do you?
你们不介意谈论死亡，是吧？
Americans are rather frightened about it, aren't they?
美国人相当害怕死亡，不是吗？
There are books written now, recently I see - how to die happily.
最近我看到，现在有人写了书，讲怎样快乐地死去。
They are helping the people who are dying to die easily.
他们在帮助垂死的人们死的轻松一些。
But death is something extraordinary which we will talk about later on.
但是死亡是一件非同寻常的事情，我们稍后会谈到。
So there is the importance of understanding ending.
所以说，理解终结很重要。
Go into it for yourself and you will see the extraordinary thing...
你自己深入地看一下，你会发现这件特别的事情...
...that we never end anything, there is always the ending...
...我们从未终结任何事情，我们总是在结束一件事...
...and the beginning of the same thing in a different form.
同时以另一种形式开始着同一件事。
We took the word 'austere', which is really extraordinary...
我们用“简朴”这个词，也就是真正非同寻常的...
...inward austerity, great sense of simplicity...
...内在的简朴，巨大的简单感...
...without any complexity.
...没有任何复杂性。
But we won't go into that now...
但是现在我们不会谈这些...
...because that requires a great deal of understanding.
...因为这需要巨大的理解力。
Because we have the picture of a great many saints...
因为我们有很多圣人的图画...
...and so-called religious people who are very, very austere...
...以及非常非常简朴的所谓宗教人物的图画...
...at least they pretend.
...至少他们假装如此。
And there is no austerity without love.
没有爱，就没有简朴。
Love and simplicity is the essence of austerity.
爱和简单是简朴的精髓。
So my friend and the speaker...
所以，我的朋友和讲话者...
...are talking over together, they say...
...在一起交谈，他们说...
...is it possible for each one of us...
...我们每个人是否可能...
...to fundamentally end greed and violence...
...从根本上终结贪婪和暴力...
...the search everlastingly for some kind of pleasure...
...终结对某种欢愉的不停追寻...
...end fear and so on?
...终结恐惧，等等？
So we will go into it now.
那么现在我们来探讨这些。
From childhood our brains...
从孩童时期，我们的大脑...
...have been conditioned to solve problems.
...就被局限于解决问题。
A child goes to the school...
孩子去上学...
...he has a problem how to read and write.
...就有如何阅读和书写的问题。
And as he grows older, mathematical problems...
当他长大一些，就有了数学问题...
...geographical problems and so on.
...地理学问题，等等。
So our brain - actually this is a fact...
所以，我们的大脑-这是事实...
...it is not the speaker's imagination...
...不是讲话者的想象...
...if you have observed yourself...
...如果你自己观察了的话...
...our brains are conditioned...
...我们的大脑是受限的...
...to solve problems.
...习惯于解决问题。
The brain is conditioned.
大脑是受限的。
So throughout life we are trying to solve problems.
所以，我们穷尽一生努力解决问题。
Haven't you noticed this?
你们没有注意到这一点吗？
So to solve a problem the brain must be free to solve it.
而要解决问题的话，大脑必须能够自由地去解决问题。
But if it is full of problems itself it cannot solve problems.
但是如果它自己都满是问题，它是不能解决问题的。
That is a logical, sane observation.
这是符合逻辑的，理智的观察。
You can see it in politics, what is happening, they solve one problem...
你能看到，在政界发生着什么，他们解决了一个问题...
...and in the solution of that problem...
...在这个问题的解决中...
...there are multiple problems. Right?
...出现了更多的问题。对不对？
You see this - economically and so on.
你也能从经济界等等方面看到这些。
So one of our first demands...
所以我们需要首先...
...or first enquiry is to find out...
...或者首先要问的是，要去发现...
...whether we can be free to investigate...
...我们是否能够自由地探索...
...why we are always solving problems...
...我们为什么总是在解决问题...
...why we have problems first.
...为什么从一开始我们就有问题。
We have problems. Right?
我们有问题。对不对？
And you go to various places to resolve your problems.
你去过各种地方想解决你的问题。
If you have never been alone in the world, wandering among the hills...
如果你从未独立于这个世界上，在群山中漫步...
...they will teach you how to be alone in the woods.
...他们会教你如何在林中独处。
You pay five hundred dollars or more and they teach you.
你交五百块钱或者更多，他们就教你。
And you are willing to be taught.
你也愿意被教。
Right?
对不对？
So, what we are saying is, a brain...
所以，我们说的是，头脑...
...your brain, when it is conditioned from childhood...
...你的大脑，如果从小就局限于...
...to the resolution of problems...
...解决问题之中...
...you are only multiplying problems.
...那么你就只是在增加问题。
But if one can understand...
但是如果一个人能够理解...
...see the fact, not only the explanation...
...并看清事实，不仅是那些解释...
...the reason, the logic of it, but see the fact that a brain...
...原因以及逻辑，而是看清这个事实，即一个大脑...
...that is trained, educated...
...受教育，受训于...
...to solve problems, as you have been from childhood...
...解决问题，因为你从小就是这样...
...you are bound to increase more and more problems.
...那么你必然会增加越来越多的问题。
Right? This is logic, sane.
对不对？这是逻辑的，理性的。
So is it possible for us, for you...
所以，我们，你，是不是有可能...
...to approach a problem...
...用一个没有问题的头脑...
...with a brain that has no problems?
...去解决问题？
You understand?
你们明白吗？
You understand this?
明白这个吗？
I am afraid you don't.
我恐怕你们没有。
See the fact first that...
先看到这个事实...
...if you have problems...
...如果你有问题...
...and your brain is trained to solve problems...
...你的头脑被训练用于解决问题...
...as it is now, then you can't solve the problem.
...正如现在这样，那么你就无法解决问题。
Right? It is only when the brain is free then it can resolve problems.
对不对？只有当头脑是自由的，它才能解决问题。
Right? This is logic, reason.
对不对？这是逻辑的理性的。
And the lawyers and the professionals increase our problems.
律师们专家们增加我们的问题。
They are paid to do that!
他们收钱就是要干这些！
Whereas if you want to solve a problem...
但是如果你想解决一个问题...
...one must look at the problem...
...就必须去看这个问题...
...and how you approach the problem.
...要如何解决这个问题。
How you approach it?
你要如何接近它？
To approach means to come near.
着手处理的意思就是接近。
How do you come near to a problem?
你要怎样接近一个问题？
You can't come near to a problem if your mind is...
你是不能接近问题的，如果你的心智在...
...seeking the solution of the problem. Right?
...寻求解决这个问题。对不对？
You can only come near it, look at it, observe it...
你只能靠近它，看着它，观察它...
...when you are not wasting your energy searching for a solution.
...而不是浪费你的能量去寻找一个解决办法。
I wonder if you understand all this.
我想知道你们是不是明白了所有这些。
It is very simple, don't get complicated.
这很简单，别弄复杂了。
I have a problem, suppose I have, with a friend...
假如说，我跟一个朋友，有一个问题...
...or with a wife or husband...
...或者跟妻子或者丈夫有个问题...
...how do I approach it?
...我要如何接近这个问题？
Freely or with a conclusion...
是自由地接近，还是抱有一个结论...
...which I would like to bring about?
...一个我想要的结论？
Or I have a motive?
又或者，我有个动机？
So a motive, a conclusion, a preconceived solution...
而动机，结论，事先想好的解决办法...
...is a distorting factor...
...是一种导致扭曲的因素...
...so I never solve the problem.
...所以我永远也解决不了那个问题。
Right?
对不对？
So our first enquiry into this is...
所以，我们首先要深入探询...
...can we look at problems in the world...
...我们能不能看着世界上的...
...and in ourselves - and the world is not different from you...
...和我们自己的问题-世界与你并无不同...
...the world is what we have made of it...
...世界正是我们造就的样子...
...the society is not different from you, you are the society...
...社会与你并无不同，你就是社会...
...you are the world and the world is you...
...你就是世界，世界就是你...
...and can we look at that?
...我们能看看这些吗？
That is, to look, observe freely...
也就是，要自由地看，自由地观察...
...without any direction of a problem...
...不带问题的任何方向...
...whatever the problem be.
...不管那个问题是什么。
Then in the observation, in coming very, very close to it...
那么，在这观察中，在非常非常近的接触中...
Then the problem itself becomes important, not the answer.
那问题本身变得重要，而不是答案。
You understand? And therefore there is no problem.
你明白吗？所以就没有问题了。
Oh, I can't go on into it...
哦，我不能继续下去了...
...if you have understood it, so much the better.
...如果你已经明白了，甚至更好。
So, which means why is it that our brains...
所以，那意味着为什么我们的头脑是这样的...
...because that is the centre of all our activity...
...因为它是我们所有行为的中心...
...all our thought, all our emotions...
...我们所有思想，所有感情...
...it is the centre of all our reactions...
...我们所有反应的中心...
...that brain is conditioned...
...那头脑是受限的...
...through long years, forty thousand years...
...经过了漫长的岁月，经过了四万年...
...it is conditioned as Christian, Buddhist, as a philosopher...
...它被局限成基督教徒，佛教徒，哲学家...
...as a scientist, as a psychologist, psychiatrist...
...科学家，心理学家，精神分析家..
...you know, the whole business of it. It is conditioned.
...你知道所有这些事情。它是受限的。
That conditioning not only distorts action...
那局限不仅会扭曲行为...
...but also creates a great many problems...
...而且也制造了大量的问题...
...in relationship, in communication...
...关系中，沟通中的问题...
...in looking at things without freedom.
...造成不能自由地看事情。
So we ought to enquire into that first.
所以，我们应该首先探询这一点。
That is, why our consciousness...
也就是，为什么我们的意识...
...our consciousness is the whole content...
...我们的意识是我们大脑的...
...of our brain, it is what we are...
...全部内容，就是我们自己...
...what you think, what you feel...
...我们想什么，我们感觉到什么...
...what are your beliefs, what are your pleasures...
...你的信念是什么，你的欢愉是什么...
...your faith, your prejudices...
...你的信仰，你的偏见...
...your experiences, your memories, your pleasures and so on...
...你的经验，你的记忆，你的欢愉，等等...
...all that is what you are.
...所有那些就是你。
All that is your consciousness with all its reactions.
所有那些就是你的意识，及其所有反应。
Right?
对不对？
It's nothing strange, it is very simple.
没什么奇怪的，这非常简单。
You don't go to a professional to find all this out.
你不用去找个专家来弄明白所有这些。
You can look at yourself, you can know it...
你可以看着你自己，你就能知道...
...if you are capable of observing yourself very clearly...
..如果你能够非常近地观察你自己...
...you will find this out...
...你会发现这点...
...much more deeply, truly than from a book or from a professional.
...比任何书籍或者专家说的都要深刻的真实的多。
So this is what you are.
所以这就是你的样子。
And we are asking a very serious and fundamental question...
我们在问一个非常严肃和根本的问题...
...this self-centred consciousness...
...这自我中心的意识...
...is the consciousness of the entire world...
...是整个世界的意识...
...because every human being throughout the world...
....因为世界上的每个人...
...is self-centred, like you.
...都跟你一样自我中心。
He has pleasure, he has pain, he has sorrow, he has various superstitions...
他有欢愉，有痛苦，有悲伤，有各种迷信...
...beliefs, he has invented gods, as you have invented gods.
...信念，有发明出来的上帝，就像你也有编造出来的上帝一样。
So, this consciousness which you have, which you think is yours...
所以，你有的这个意识，你以为是你的...
...personal, mine...
...个人的，我的...
...is the consciousness of the entire world.
...是这整个世界的意识。
They are trying to prove this in different ways scientifically.
他们总是试图用各种科学方法来证明这点。
I won't go into all that.
我不想谈论那些东西。
Then when science says then you will probably all say, 'Yes'!
那么，如果科学这么说，你们就都可能会说，“是”！
Because we have been taught to accept what the experts say.
因为我们被教育去接受专家们说的话。
But we are not the experts here, we are together...
但是，我们不是这里的专家，我们一起来...
...looking at this extraordinary phenomenon which is a human being.
...看人类这个非同寻常的现象。
And religion, society, our own pleasures...
宗教、社会，我们自己的欢愉...
...have made us think we are separate individuals.
...让我们以为我们是分离的个体。
I know what we are saying goes against everything that you believe.
我知道我们说的东西和你们相信的所有事情都是相左的。
On the contrary we are saying you are not individuals...
相反，我们说你们不是个体...
...you are the rest of humanity...
...你和其他人类是同一的...
...you are humanity because you suffer...
...你就是人类因为你遭受痛苦...
...because you have fears, you have many illusions...
...因为你有恐惧，你有很多幻想...
...and superstitions and beliefs...
...以及迷信和信念...
...you have one god or one saviour...
...你有个上帝或者救世主...
...and in Asia they have a thousand gods, perhaps that is more fun.
...在亚洲他们有一千个神祗，可能这样才更有趣。
So you are like the rest of the world.
所以你和世界上的其他人是一样的。
It is a tremendous realisation, this fact.
这是个巨大的领悟，这是个事实。
Then you will not kill another...
那么你就不会去残杀别人...
...if you kill another you are killing yourself.
...如果你杀害别人，你就是在杀害自己。
So that is the one thing: our conditioning has made us.
所以说，就是这么回事：我们的局限把我们变成了这样。
Religions have said, 'You have separate souls'...
宗教信仰说，“你们的灵魂是分开的”...
...in India too, you have separate atmans and so on, and so on.
...在印度也是如此，你们分别有各自至高无上的精神法则，等等，等等。
So can all this be radically changed, fundamentally...
所以，所有这些能够发生根本的基础的改变吗...
...so that we can live on this earth, which is so beautiful...
...这样我们就能生活在这个如此美丽的地球上...
...only it is rather hot this morning...
...只是今天上午相当热罢了....
...it is such a beautiful world...
...这是个如此美丽的世界...
...not in pictures, not in the museums...
...它不在图画里，不在博物馆里...
...but when you look around, the hills...
...而是当你环视周围，那群山...
...the rivers, the valleys...
...那河流，那山谷...
...there is a great sense of beauty in the world.
...世界上有种巨大的美感。
Nature is not made by man...
自然不是人类制造的...
...the tiger is not put together by thought.
...老虎不是思想合成出来的。
But apart from nature...
但是除自然外...
...thought has put everything together...
...思想造作了每一件事...
...the structure of our own self.
...造作了我们自己的自我结构。
So thought is responsible...
所以，思想要对此负责...
...without thought and memory...
...没有思想和记忆...
...which is born of knowledge, you can't do a thing.
...没有产生于知识的这些东西，你什么都做不了。
So we ought to enquire what is thought.
所以，我们应该探询思想是什么。
Just an hour.
只要一个小时就行。
We are going to enquire together, if you will.
我们来一起探讨，如果你愿意的话。
What is thinking? What is thought?
思考是什么？思想是什么？
Because thought has created the extraordinary world of technology...
因为思想创造了不可思议的技术世界...
...going to the Moon, the neutron bomb...
...登月，中子弹...
...the missiles, the submarines...
...导弹，潜水艇...
...the computer, the communication, the railways...
...计算机，通讯，铁路...
...everything - thought has put together all that.
...所有东西-思想造作了所有这些。
And also thought has put together the whole business world.
思想也造作了整个商界。
Thought has also put together all the cathedrals of the world...
思想也造作了世界上所有的大教堂...
...the temples, the mosques, the churches, and the magnificent...
...寺庙，清真寺，教堂，和壮丽的...
...and beautiful cathedrals of Europe.
...美丽的欧洲大教堂。
And also thought has put all the things that are in the churches...
思想也制造了教堂里的所有东西...
...in the cathedrals, in the temples, in the mosques...
...大教堂里，寺庙里，清真寺里的所有东西...
...their rituals, their garb, their clothes, their sceptres...
...他们的仪式，他们的服装，他们的衣服，他们的权杖...
...you know, all the things that show off the religious person.
...你知道，所有这些东西都标榜了那些宗教人士。
And also thought has invented god.
思想也发明了上帝。
So we should enquire very carefully into the nature of thought...
所以我们应该很小心地探询思想的本质...
...because everything we do is based on thought.
...因为我们做的每一件事都基于思想。
Your relationship with another, intimate or not...
你和另一个人的关系，不管亲密与否...
...is structured by thought.
...都由思想构造。
To write a letter, to drive a car...
写信，开车...
...to be a first-class scientist or carpenter...
...成为一流的科学家或者木匠...
...you must have thought.
...你必须有思想。
So we should very carefully understand the nature of thought...
所以我们应该很小心地了解思想的本质...
...why thought has become so extraordinarily important in our lives.
...为什么思想在我们的生活中变得格外重要。
And thought may be also one of the reasons...
思想也可能是为什么...
...why we destroy each other.
...我们互相摧毁对方的原因之一。
So what is thought, what is thinking?
那么，思想是什么，思考是什么？
When you are asked a question, what is your name...
当有人问你，你叫什么名字...
...your answer is very quick, immediate - why?
...你的回答会很快，立刻就回答-为什么？
Because you have repeated it a hundred times...
因为你已经重复了一百次...
...you are very familiar with it.
...你对它非常熟悉。
If you are asked a more complicated question...
如果有人问你一个更复杂的问题...
...there is a time interval before you answer it.
...在你回答之前就有一个时间间隔。
During that time interval you are looking, you are searching...
在那个时间间隔里，你在看，在寻找...
...you are asking, and you are looking into books to find out the answer.
...你在问，你到书本里去寻找答案。
There is an interval between the question and the answer.
在问题和回答之间有一个间隔。
During that interval thought is enquiring.
在那个间隔中是思想在询问。
And also when you ask something much more complicated and you say...
同样，当你问一个复杂的多的事情时，你说...
...'I don't know' - I wonder if you ever say, 'I don't know'?
...“我不知道”-我想知道你是否说过“我不知道”？
Do you?
你说过吗？
When you say, 'I don't know' you are waiting for an answer...
当你说“我不知道”的时候，你在等一个答案...
...or for somebody to tell you.
...或者等别人告诉你。
So these are the stages of thinking.
那其中有思考的各个阶段。
And also what is thinking?
同样，思考是什么呢？
Perhaps you have heard the speaker talk about it, explain it.
可能你听过讲话者谈过，解释过这个问题。
Forget, if I may request you, what the speaker has said...
忘了吧，如果我可以如此请求你的话，请忘记讲话者说过的话...
...or what you have read about it, completely put aside all that...
...忘记你读到的那些东西，把它们完全放在一边...
...and let just look at thinking.
...让我们只是来看一下思考。
Your thinking may be crooked, or straight, or rational...
你的思维也许是扭曲的，笔直的，或者理智的...
...or facile, or neurotic...
...或者油腔滑调的，或者神经质的...
...schizophrenic, but it is still thinking.
...或者精神分裂的，但那还是思考。
The most erudite person and the most illiterate person...
最博学的人，和目不识丁的人...
...the man who doesn't know how to read or write...
...他不知道怎么读书写字...
...who lives in a small village, he also thinks.
...生活在一个小村庄里，可是他也思考。
So there are these extreme forms of thinking...
那么，思考有这些极端的形式...
...subtle, crude, and so on.
...有微妙狡黠的，有天然粗犷的，等等。
So we should be very clear what is thinking...
所以我们应该清楚思考是什么...
...when all our life is based on thinking...
...既然我们所有的生活都基于思考...
...perverted, crooked, illogical, illusory, utterly stupid.
...不当的，扭曲的，不合逻辑的，虚幻的，极端愚蠢的思想。
Thinking can only take place when there is memory.
只有当有记忆的时候，思考才能发生。
Without memory you cannot think.
没有记忆你就不能思考。
And this memory is stored in the brain cells...
记忆存储于脑细胞中...
...in the brain. Right?
...存储在大脑里。对不对？
And memory is the accumulation of knowledge.
记忆是知识的积累。
And knowledge can only be, exist, where there is experience.
有经验，才能有知识，知识才能存在。
And experience is always limited. Right?
而经验总是有限的。对不对？
And so knowledge can expand, be wide...
知识可以扩展，知识面可以变宽...
...but knowledge is always limited...
...但是知识总是有限的...
...either in the future or now, it is always limited.
...不管是在将来还是现在，它都是有限的。
That's a fact.
这是事实。
Scientists are adding more and more and more...
科学家们正将越来越多的知识...
...to what they already know.
...增加在他们的已知之上。
So knowledge has always been limited now or in the future...
所以说，在现在或将来知识总是受限的...
...so thought or our memory is always limited, obviously.
...所以思想或者我们的记忆也总是受限的，这很明显。
So thought is limited. Right?
所以说思想是受限的。对不对？
So action then born of thought will always be limited...
那么，从思想中生出的行动也总是受限的...
...therefore anything that is limited...
...进而，任何受限的东西...
...must create contradiction. Right?
...都必将制造冲突。对不对？
You understand all this?
你明白所有这些了吗？
When you are thinking about yourself all day long...
当你整天都在思考你自己...
...as most people do...
...就像大多数人那样...
...it is very limited, isn't it?
...这是非常局限的，是不是？
And action born of that limitation must create...
从那局限中诞生的行动必将制造...
...innumerable problems, contradictions.
...不计其数的问题，冲突。
So going into it more deeply...
所以更深入地探讨...
...which is as thought is limited, which is logic, which is so...
...思想是受限的这个事实，这是符合逻辑的，是那么的...
...there is no complete thought about anything, there cannot be...
...关于任何事都没有完整的思想，不可能有...
...it can think about completeness...
...它能思考圆满...
...it can think about measureless...
...它能思考无限...
...but the thing that thought thinks about as being measureless...
...但是思想思考的那个无限的东西...
...is still limited because in itself thought is limited. Right?
...依然是受限的，因为思想本身是受限的。对不对？
So thought being limited...
所以既然思想是受限的...
...everything it has done has created contradictions.
...它做的每件事情就都会制造冲突。
That is, thought has created nationalities.
也就是说，思想制造了民族国家。
Right?
对不对？
Because thought says, 'I must be secure'.
因为思想说，“我必须要安全”。
...I am not secure with the family...
...我在家庭里不安全...
...but I will be secure with the greater community...
...但是在一个更大的社区里我就安全了...
...and the ultimate greater community is the nation...
...而那个终极的大社区就是国家...
...which is born out of tribalism.
...而国家诞生于部落主义。
Nationalism is merely another form of glorified tribalism.
民族主义只是另一种美化了的部落主义。
And so therefore you have divided the world into the Christian world...
所以你把世界分裂成了基督教世界...
...the Buddhist world, the Hindu world, the Islamic world...
...佛教世界，印度教世界，伊斯兰教世界...
...with their separate gods, which all seems so utterly silly.
...各有各的神祗，这些看起来都极其愚蠢。
Pardon my saying so.
请原谅我这么说。
And so where there is division there must be conflict.
那么，只要有界分，就必然有冲突。
Right?
对不对？
There is conflict going on in the eastern end of the Mediterranean...
地中海的东岸正发生着冲突...
...between the Jew and the Arab, Iran and Iraq, fighting about what?
...犹太人和阿拉伯人，伊朗人和伊拉克人，在为何而战呢？
The ideological gods and suppositions which each group has created.
每个团体都创造出自己意识形态里的上帝和迷信。
So when one realises not verbally or logically, but the reality...
所以，当一个人不是从字面上、逻辑上了解，而是认识到这个事实...
...that thought is everlastingly limited...
...即思想永远是受限的...
...there is no ending to the limitation of thought...
...思想的局限是没有止境的...
...thought then is a material process.
...那么思想就是一个物质过程。
Because it is stored in the brain, it is a material process.
因为它存储在大脑里，它就是个物质过程。
Therefore anything that thought has created...
因此思想造作的任何东西...
...can never be sacred, holy, but only limited.
...永远不可能是神圣的，圣洁的，而只是受限的。
So one asks: if thought is limited...
所以一个人问：如果思想是受限的...
...and creates such havoc in the world...
...并且制造了世界上如此多的混乱...
...what is the place of thought?
...那思想有什么意义呢？
Are you asking these questions?
你在问这些问题吗？
Do you understand?
你明白吗？
Is the speaker working, or are you also working?
讲话者在工作吗？你也在工作吗？
Are you also thinking, enquiring, groping, pushing?
你是不是也在想，在询问，在探索，在努力？
Or are you merely sitting under the dappled shade...
还是你只是坐在斑驳的树荫下...
...enjoying the mountains and the hills...
...享受着群山...
...and the quietness of this place, which is good too...
...和此地的安宁，虽然这也不错...
...but to listen to something that is true...
...而是倾听某件真实的事情...
...listen to something...
...倾听一件...
...which you yourself have found for yourself to be true.
...你自己发现是真实的事情。
And then be committed to it, work for it.
然后全神贯注于其中，为此而努力工作。
Not just let things go by.
不要让事情就这么错过了。
If you hear the truth and not act, then that truth acts as a poison.
如果你听到了真相而不行动，那么这真相就像一种毒药。
It creates more trouble, more problems.
它会制造更多的麻烦，更多的问题。
So there must be the right place for thought.
所以，思想肯定有其恰当的地位。
You cannot go from here to your house without thought.
你从这走到你的家，不可能不用到思想。
You cannot drive your car as soon as you leave this place...
你一离开这个地方，要开车...
...when you want to get home, you have to use thought.
...回家的话，你必然会用到思想。
You have to use thought when you write a letter...
你写信的时候也得用思想...
...you have to use thought when you do business and so on.
...你做生意等等的时候也要用思想。
So thought has a right place.
所以思想有其恰当的地位。
But has thought any place at all...
但是，思想到底有没有作用...
...please listen to this...
...请注意听这点...
...has it any place at all in the psychological area...
...它到底在心理领域有没有作用...
...any place at all in relationship with each other?
...在彼此的关系中到底有没有作用？
You understand my question?
你明白我的问题吗？
Has thought in relationship a place at all?
思想在关系中到底有没有作用？
If it has then in that relationship there is a limitation...
如果有，那么关系中就有了局限...
...therefore there is division, therefore there is conflict.
...进而就有了分裂，有了冲突。
Right?
对不对？
In my relationship to a wife, or to a husband...
在我和妻子，或者丈夫的关系中...
...or to a girl, a boy and so on...
...和一个女孩，或者一个男孩等等的关系中...
...if in that relationship thought plays a great part...
...如果思想在其中起到了巨大的作用...
...as thought being limited...
...因为思想是受限的...
...then that very limitation creates a division between her and him...
...那么那局限就制造了他和她之间的界分...
...and therefore where there is division there must be conflict.
...而只要有界分，就必然有冲突。
As you know very well in all your relationships there is conflict...
既然你很清楚地知道了在你所有的关系中都有冲突...
...however much you may like another...
...不管你可能多么喜欢对方...
...I won't use the word love...
...我不会用爱这个词...
...however you may like the other, or have pleasure with the other...
...不管你可能多么喜欢对方，或者跟对方在一起有多开心...
...it is always limited, therefore breeding conflict.
...那总是受限的，因而滋生了冲突。
That's law, that's logic, that's truth.
这是规律，这是逻辑，这是真理。
So thought has its right place...
所以，思想有其应有的地位...
...in the world of technology, in the ordinary world...
...在科技世界，在平常世界的地位...
...but psychologically, inwardly, thought has no place at all.
...但是心理上，内在地，思想根本就没有作用。
Then there is a place that creates the self, the 'me'.
而确实有一个地方制造了自我，那个“我”。
And the 'me', the ego, the persona is very limited.
那个“我”，自我，那人格是非常局限的。
It can imagine that it is marvellous...
它能想象自己是奇妙的...
...it can imagine it can do extraordinary things.
...想象自己能做不可思议的事情。
But that imagination, that picture...
但是，那想象，那画面...
...is really still very, very limited, small.
...实在还是非常，非常受限和渺小的。
To see the truth of this - that's all...
看到这个真相-那就是全部了...
...one has to do nothing but just see the fact of it.
...一个人什么都不必做只要看着这个事实就够了。
And that very fact, the perception of the fact...
而那个事实本身，对那事实的觉察..
...as you perceive something dangerous...
...就像你发觉一件危险的事情...
...like a dangerous animal, a dangerous precipice...
...比如一只危险的动物，一个危险的悬崖...
...if you see this as factually, as actually as that...
...如果你如实看到这些，真真实实地看到...
...then you break the whole chain of continuity of the self.
...那么你就打破了自我延续的整个链条。
Then only it is possible to live with another...
那么才有可能真正地和对方生活在一起...
...without a single shadow of conflict.
...不带一丝冲突的阴影。
Because conflict is the very essence of violence.
因为冲突正是暴力的核心。
We think violence is out there...
我们以为暴力在外面...
...the terrorist, the kidnappers, the wars, the people who carry guns...
...恐怖主义者，绑架者，战争，持枪的人们...
...as in this country everybody is allowed to carry guns...
...就像这个国家里每个人都可以带枪...
...a most extraordinary country!
...真是个极其不可思议的国家啊！
You go into a shop and you can buy a gun.
你进一个商店就能买到枪。
So violence is not only out there...
所以暴力不只是在外面...
...but violence in relationship exists...
...而且关系中的暴力也存在着...
...as long as there is division, as the 'me' and the 'you'.
...只要有界分，分成“我”和“你”。
The 'me' pursuing my ambitions, my greed, my purposes...
“我”追求我的野心，我的贪求，我的目标...
...my achievements, and she also doing the same.
...我的成就，她也在做同样的事情。
Therefore we are always living in conflict.
所以我们总是生活在冲突中。
And realising the conflict you say, 'How am I to solve it?'
认识到了这冲突，你说，“我要怎样解决它呢？”
So we come back...
所以，我们回过头来...
...the brain being conditioned...
...头脑被局限着...
...to the solution of problems from childhood...
...从儿时就开始用来解决问题...
...so we say, 'All right, let's see how I can resolve...
...所以我们说，“好吧，让我们看看我要怎样解决...
...or change, or bring about the ending of conflict.'
...或者改变，如何带来冲突的终结。”
That becomes a problem.
那就成为了一个问题。
Right?
对不对？
That's what you are doing now: how am I to end conflict?
这就是你正在做的事情：我要如何终结冲突？
But if you saw the root of it, the cause of it, whatever has a cause...
但是，如果你看到了它的根源，它的起因，无论什么都有个缘由...
...that cause can be changed, it can be removed.
...那起因可以被改变，可以被消除。
The cause of conflict is the sense of division...
冲突的起因是界分感...
...brought about by thought, which is limited.
...那是思想带来的，而思想是受限的。
And whatever is limited...
任何受限的东西...
...religions are limited...
...宗教是受限的...
...your beliefs are limited...
...你的信念是受限的...
...anything that is put together by thought is limited...
...思想造作的任何东西都是受限的...
...and therefore it must always create conflict.
...因此它必然总是制造冲突。
If you see the fact of that...
如果你看到这个事实...
...the truth of it...
...这真相...
...then that very truth is the catalyst that will end conflict.
...那么那真相本身就是终结冲突的催化剂。
I have finished for this morning.
我今天上午的讲话就结束了。
We shall continue tomorrow morning.
我们明天上午还会继续。
If one may point out you must listen to the whole...
如果我可以指出的话，你必须倾听整体...
...not that I am inviting you to come again tomorrow...
...不是我在邀请你明天还来...
...it's up to you, I am not interested if you come or don't come...
...这取决于你，我不关心你明天来还是不来...
...and I mean it...
...我说的是真的...
...but if you want to understand the whole issue...
...但是如果你想要明白这整个问题...
...the whole totality of life, you must listen to the whole thing...
...这完整生命的整体，你必须倾听事情的全部...
...it is a package, as you call it!
...这是个一揽子的事情，正如这个说法那样。
Not just one chapter of it...
不只是其中的一章...
...it is a whole book you must read.
...这整本书你都必须读。
It has got many chapters, many paragraphs.
它有很多章节，很多段落。
And that book is you.
这本书就是你。
And as we are going to talk about all these matters...
我们将在下一周...
...during the next week...
...探讨所有这些问题...
...if you are willing...
...如果你愿意的话...
...one must listen to the totality of it.
...就必须倾听这个整体。
May I get up now?
我现在可以起来了吗？ | 
发表于 2009-10-16 12:39
|