Attention and Order QA1
注意力与秩序 问答一
Ojai California, 1984
加州欧亥，1984年
There have been a lot of questions sent in.
有很多问题被提了出来。
And we have chosen some of those questions.
我们选了其中的一些问题。
We are going to examine the questions, not the answers.
我们将仔细检视这些问题，而不是答案。
It's a dialogue...
这是一场对话...
...you ask a question...
...你提出问题...
...and the speaker replies to that question.
...讲话者答复那个问题。
Then you respond to that question.
然后你回应那个问题。
You ask a question, the speaker then responds to your question...
你问了一个问题，然后讲话者对你的问题做出回应...
...then you respond to the speaker's response...
...然后你再对讲话者的回复做出回应...
...and so keep this going...
...这样持续下去...
...till only the question remains and not the persons.
...直到只剩下问题，而没有了人的存在。
You have understood this?
你们明白这点了吗？
Probably you have not gone into this question of dialogue.
可能你还没深入到对话这个问题中去。
I think it is important to understand this...
我想，了解这一点很重要...
...because we are together...
...因为我们将一起...
...going to investigate these questions.
...审视这些问题。
And in the process of investigation...
在审视的过程中...
...you ask a question...
...你问了一个问题...
...the speaker then replies to that question...
...然后讲话者对那个问题做出答复...
...and you respond to the reply...
...你再对那个答复做出回应...
...and then I pick up and reply to that...
...然后我再接过来就此给出回复...
...we go on this way - until only the question remains.
...我们就这样进行下去-直到只有问题留了下来。
You understand?
明白了吗？
So the question then has tremendous vitality...
那么那问题就具有了巨大的生命力...
...it is not tinged by any personal prejudice.
...它不被任何个人偏见所污染。
Have you understood this?
你明白了这点吗？
We are going to do it, we will see it for ourselves.
我们将要这么做，我们将要自己看清楚。
I wonder why we ask questions...
我想知道我们为什么要问问题...
...and from whom do you expect a reply?
...你想从谁那儿得到一个答案？
It is good to ask questions...
问问题很好...
...the more questions, enquiry, the better.
...问题和疑问越多越好。
But we expect someone else to answer the question.
但是我们希望别人来回答这个问题。
The question is really a problem.
那问题实际上是个难题。
A problem, the root meaning of that word...
问题，词根的意思是...
...is something thrown at you.
...投向你的某个东西。
The etymological meaning of the word 'problem' means...
“问题”这个词在语源学上的意思是...
...something hurled at you, thrown at you, it is a challenge.
...猛掷向你的东西，投向你的东西，是一个挑战。
And we expect others to solve our problems...
我们期望别人来解决我们的问题...
...religious, economic, social...
...宗教上、经济上、社会上的问题...
...all kinds of problems that human beings have.
...人类拥有的各种各样的问题。
And therefore it becomes one-sided.
那么这就变成了单方面的活动。
You ask the question and the speaker replies to it, if he is silly enough.
你问了一个问题，讲话者回答这个问题，如果他够蠢的话。
But if we together investigated the question...
但是如果我们一起来审视这个问题...
...the significance of the question...
...审视这问题的意义...
...and not move away from the significance of the question...
...不偏离这问题的意义...
...then the answer is in the question.
...那么答案就在问题中。
Right? Do you understand this?
对不对？你明白这点吗？
Most of us put questions...
我们大部分人提出问题...
...then wait for somebody to answer them.
...然后等着有人能回答。
So what we are interested in is the answer...
所以，我们感兴趣的是答案...
...and not in the question itself.
...而不是问题本身。
Whereas the importance is in the question, not in the answer.
然而重要的是问题，而不是答案。
You will discover this presently.
你很快就会发现这点。
Because this is a question put to the speaker...
因为这是一个对讲话者提出的问题...
...then the speaker responds to the question...
...然后讲话者对它进行回复...
...then you pick up that response...
...然后你接过那个回复...
...and reply to that response, and we keep this going...
...再对它做出回应，我们这样持续下去...
...until the question remains...
...直到只有问题保留下来...
...and not anything else.
...其他的什么都没有。
And when the question becomes extraordinarily important...
当问题变得格外重要...
...it has its own vitality, and therefore its own answer.
...它就有自己的生命力，因而就有自己的答案。
We will see it in a minute.
我们很快就会发现这点。
1st QUESTION: I understand that all people have a similar consciousness...
第一个问题：我了解所有人都有一个相似的意识...
...but it seems a vast jump to say...
...但是其中似乎要经过一个巨大的跨越才能说...
...that all people share the same consciousness.
...所有人都共有同样的意识。
Could we walk together slowly between these two points?
我们可以在这两点之间慢慢地一起往前走吗？
This is a question that has been put.
这是提出来的一个问题。
What is the significance of that question?
这个问题的意义是什么？
The questioner says, I understand that all people...
问题说，我了解所有人...
...have a similar consciousness.
...都有一个相似的意识。
What do we mean by understand?
我们说的“了解”是什么意思？
I am not being facetious, hair splitting...
我不是在开玩笑，也不是吹毛求疵...
...but I would like to know what you mean by understand.
...而是我想知道你说的“了解”是什么意思。
I understand the nuclear bomb will kill...
我了解核弹会一举杀死...
...ten million people in one blow.
...数以千万计的人。
I understand it.
我了解这点。
I have seen the experiment, not the ten million people blown up...
我看过试验，不是说一千万人被炸掉了...
...but have seen the mushroom cloud and all the rest of it.
...而是看到了蘑菇云和所有其他的一切。
Is the understanding merely intellectual, verbal...
这种了解只是智识上的，语言上的呢...
...or the understanding has tremendous significance, depth...
...还是这种了解具有巨大的意义和深度...
...and not merely a verbal understanding.
...而不只是一种语言上的理解。
Right?
对不对？
I have asked that question.
我问了这个问题。
Then you reply to that question: you say, no...
然后你回答这个问题：你说，不是的...
...when I use the word 'understand'...
...当我用“了解”这个词...
...I don't mean logically...
...我不是说仅仅在逻辑上...
...or merely verbally, but I understand it, the meaning...
...或者语言上了解，而是我了解其中的含义...
...the significance of people having similar consciousness.
...人们拥有相似的意识这句话的意义。
Right?
对不对？
'But it seems a vast jump to say...
“但是，其中似乎要经过一个巨大的跨越才能说...
...that all people share the same consciousness.
...所有人都共有同样的意识。”
Could we walk together slowly between these two points?'
在这两点之间，我们可以慢慢地一起走过去吗？
What do we mean by consciousness?
我们说的“意识”是什么意思？
You reply to me...
你回答我说...
...there are too many people, therefore I will reply for you.
...这里有太多人了，所以我会替你回答。
We mean by consciousness to be conscious of things...
我们说“意识”的意思是，注意到事物...
...conscious of the trees round here, people round here...
...注意到这周围的树，这周围的人...
...in their various dresses, and hair, and so on.
...穿着各式各样的衣服，有着各式各样的头发，等等。
I am aware of it.
我注意到了这些。
It is all right, sir. She is perfectly all right if she is quiet.
没关系，先生。如果她很安静，那她就非常好。
Will you be quiet?
你能安静下来吗？
What do we mean by being conscious? Being aware.
我们说“注意到”是什么意思？是觉察。
In that awareness see what is happening around us...
在那觉察中，看到我们周围发生着什么...
...and the happening, or mere things as they are...
...发生着的事，或者它们只是一些东西...
...and in that awareness...
...在那觉察中...
...there is a certain choice...
...有一种选择...
...I like, I don't like.
...我喜欢，我不喜欢。
I like oak trees, I don't like palm trees...
我喜欢橡树，我不喜欢棕榈树...
...or I wish it was something else.
...我希望它是个别的什么。
So in this awareness there is a sense of choice.
所以在这种觉察中有一种选择感。
Now is there an awareness...
那么，是否有一种觉察...
...which is part of consciousness...
...作为意识的一部分...
...in which there is no choice at all?
...其中根本没有选择？
So the speaker puts that question...
所以讲话者提出这个问题...
...and the speaker representing you...
...并且讲话者代表你...
...answers that question, which is...
...回答这个问题，即...
...in our awareness there is always choice, choice being...
...在我们的觉察中，总是有选择，选择...
...I like, I don't like, I wish it were different and so on.
...我喜欢或者不喜欢什么，我希望它能变成别的，等等。
So where there is choice...
所以，只要有选择...
...there is a conflict.
...就会有冲突。
Right? Do we see this?
对不对？我们看到了这点吗？
Where there is a choice between this and that...
如果在此或彼之间有选择...
...this division breeds conflict.
...那么这种划分就滋生了冲突。
Now, is there an awareness without choice?
那么，是否一种没有选择的觉察？
You understand my question?
你明白我的问题吗？
As you cannot reply, I am taking your part...
因为你不能回答，我就代你做答了...
...it seems it is very difficult to be aware without choice.
...没有选择的觉察，看起来好像很困难。
And the reply to that is, why?
就此的回应是，为什么呢？
Why is it difficult?
为什么很困难？
Is the word 'difficult' preventing, throwing a barrier?
“困难”这个词不正是抛出了屏障产生了障碍吗？
The word 'difficult'.
“困难”这个词。
You understand?
你明白吗？
When I use the word 'impossible'...
如果我用“不可能”这个词...
...'difficult', 'I am a failure'...
...“很困难”，“我是个失败者”...
...those words act as a barrier.
...这些词就变成了障碍。
So in using the word 'difficult' you are already making it difficult.
所以用“困难”这个词的话，你就已经把它变得困难了。
So is it possible to be aware, conscious...
所以，是否可能觉察，注意到...
...without any choice, just to observe?
...但没有任何选择而只是观察？
Right?
对不对？
And the reply to that, 'I will try'.
然后对它的回答是，“我会努力试试。”
And to that reply the speaker says, 'Don't try'.
对于这个回答，讲话者说，“不要努力”。
The moment you try you are making an effort.
你试图尝试的那一刻，你就是在做出努力。
And when you make an effort you don't understand anything.
当你做出努力地时候，你什么事情都明白不了。
Whereas if you don't make effort...
但是如果你不做出努力...
...but just see, perceive the actual.
...而只是看着，觉察事实。
Right?
对不对？
And then you may say, sorry, I don't understand it.
然后你可能会说，对不起，我不明白。
So I say, let's go into it further.
然后我说，让我们再深入一点。
I am having fun with this!
我觉得这个很有趣！
I haven't read these questions before.
我以前没碰到过这些问题。
I like to look at them first when I am speaking.
在我讲话的时候我想先看看这些问题。
'But it is a vast jump to say...
“但是要经过一个巨大的跨越才能说...
...that all people share the same consciousness.'
...所有人共有相同的意识。”
Is that so or not?
是这样吗？
That all people throughout the world...
世界上所有的人...
...share the same consciousness, is that so?
...共有同样的意识，是这样的吗？
And you say, no, it is not the same...
你说，不，不是同样的...
...each one of us is different...
...我们每个人都是不同的...
...each one of us has his own peculiarities...
...我们每个人都有他自己的独特性...
...his own idiosyncrasies...
...他自己的气质...
...his different environment...
...他与众不同的环境...
...different religious upbringing...
...不同的宗教教养...
...or non-religious upbringing...
...或者非宗教教养...
...educated in different ways...
...不同的受教育方式...
...so we do not say, all the same consciousness, you reply.
...所以我们不说意识都是相同的，你如此回答。
And the speaker says, it is not like that...
于是讲话者说，不是这样的...
...let's look into it, don't assert.
...让我们深入进去，先不要断言。
You understand?
你明白吗？
Don't take a position, then it becomes a battle.
不要先站好立场，否则那就变成争斗了。
But if you are pliable, move, enquire...
但是如果你是柔韧的，在动着，探询着...
...then we are together in this.
...那么我们就一起在这里了。
So I say, now let's examine this...
所以我说，现在让我们来检视这点...
...very closely, without any bias...
...非常近地，不带任何偏见的...
...taking up any position, that I believe in this...
...采取任何立场，比如我相信这个...
...then you can't discuss, you can't explore.
...那么你就不能讨论了，你就不能探索了。
So let's examine this.
所以让我们来检视这点。
You say, what do you mean examine, explore?
你说，“你说的检视、探索是什么意思？”
Who is exploring?
谁在探索？
Your own attention, I am not using the word 'interest'.
你自己的注意力，我没用“兴趣”这个词。
Now we must go into the question of interest and attention.
现在我们必须深入兴趣和注意力的问题。
I hope you are coming into this game.
我希望你加入这场游戏。
Most educators are concerned with interest...
大多数教育者关注的是兴趣...
...to awaken the interest of children, students...
...来唤起孩子们、学生们的兴趣...
...be interested in mathematics...
...对数学感兴趣...
...if you are not interested in mathematics be interested in history.
...如果你对数学不感兴趣，而对历史感兴趣的话。
The teacher is concerned...
老师关心的是...
...with awakening the interest in the student.
...唤起学生的兴趣。
Right? Isn't that a fact?
对不对？这不是事实吗？
I want to play the violin.
我想拉小提琴。
Don't play the violin, it's not worthwhile...
别拉小提琴，那没什么价值...
...because you can't earn a good livelihood...
...因为你无法以此很好地谋生...
...but get interested in something else. And so on.
...去对别的事情感兴趣吧。等等。
Now where there is interest there is always...
哪里有兴趣，哪里就总是有...
...a contradictory process going on within oneself.
...自我矛盾的过程发生。
Clear? Oh, no.
清楚了吗？哦，没有。
All right, I'll explain again.
好吧，我再解释一次。
I am interested in climbing a mountain.
我对爬山感兴趣。
And my teacher says, don't be interested in that...
而我的老师说，“别对那个感兴趣...
...be interested in something much more serious.
...要对更严肃的事情感兴趣”。
There is a contradiction immediately.
矛盾立刻就产生了。
I am interested in wanting to climb the mountain...
我有兴趣想去爬山...
...and the educator says, don't climb the mountain...
...教育者说，别爬山...
...be interested in what I am saying.
...要对我说的东西感兴趣。
So in me there is already a contradiction taking place...
所以在我身上，已经有矛盾发生了...
...wanting to do something else...
...想做别的事...
...I have been forced to do something else.
...可是被强迫去做了另外一件事。
Right? So don't use the word 'interest' at all.
对不对？所以绝不要用“兴趣”这个词。
Then what word would you use, you ask me.
“那么你要用哪个词，”你这么问我。
I say, find out what is the nature of attention.
我说，“去发现注意力的本质”。
Right?
对不对？
Are you all so puzzled by all this?
你们是不是都为此感到迷惑？
What is the nature of attention?
注意力的本质是什么？
The student is very interested in watching something very closely.
学生总是对近距离地观察一样东西很感兴趣。
And I want him to be interested in history, but he is watching...
我希望他对历史感兴趣，但是他在观察...
...the frog or the lizard, or the bird, out of the window.
...青蛙或者蜥蜴，或者窗外的鸟。
He is paying much more attention to that...
他在那上面花的注意力远远超过了...
...than listening to my demand of history.
...听从我对他在历史上的要求。
So I would encourage him, or help him to watch much more carefully.
所以我会鼓励他，或者帮助他更仔细地观察。
You understand?
你明白吗？
Much more carefully...
更加仔细地观察...
...so that his whole attention is given to his watching.
...这样他的整个注意力都集中在了观察上。
When he does that then I can see and demand...
当他这么做的时候，我会看到并且要求...
...that he pay attention to everything slowly.
...他慢慢地对一切都关注。
Learn to pay attention, not interest. You've got it?
学着全神贯注，而不是去关心兴趣。你听懂了吗？
So, let's examine, or explore...
所以，让我们来检验，或者探索...
...that we all share the same consciousness.
...我们共有相同的意识。
Wherever we live...
不管我们住在哪...
...whether in the Far East, or in the Middle East, or here...
...住在远东，或者中东，或者这里...
...human beings go through terrible times.
...人类都经历了恐怖的时期。
There is great poverty...
有巨大的贫穷...
...in Africa and India, and parts of Asia.
...非洲、印度和亚洲的一部分都有。
There is great suffering.
有巨大的苦难。
People are anxious all over the world.
全世界的人们都焦虑不安。
People are afraid all over the world.
全世界的人们都恐惧担忧。
And they all want security...
他们都想要安全...
...both physical as well as psychological.
...身体上以及心理上的安全。
Right? This is a fact.
对不对？这是事实。
So the fact is common to all of us. Right?
所以对我们所有人来说，这是共同的事实。对不对？
You suffer...
你受苦...
...the Indian in India suffers...
...在印度的印度人也受苦...
...the Russian suffers.
...俄罗斯人也受苦。
So human beings, looking at all...
所以人类，看看所有...
...the inhabitants of the world...
...世界上的居民...
...go through this extraordinary phenomenon. Right?
...都经历着这非同寻常的苦难。对不对？
...All human beings have their own idiosyncrasies...
...所有人类都有他们自己的习性...
...their own way of doing things...
...他们自己做事情的方式...
...their peculiar habits, their fears...
...他们特定的习惯，他们的恐惧...
...their gods,, their beliefs...
...他们的神祗，他们的信念...
...right through the world this is a common factor.
...走遍整个世界，这是一个普遍的事实。
This is so. Right?
是这样的。对不对？
The speaker says so.
讲话者是这么说的。
And you say, no, it is not like that.
而你说，“不，不是这样的。
I am different from my neighbour.
我和我邻居不一样。”
The speaker then says, are you really?
然后讲话者说，“你真的不一样吗？”
You may have a bigger car...
你可能有辆更大的车...
...a wider garden, beautifully kept...
...更大的花园，收拾得很漂亮...
...you work at that garden...
...你在那花园里劳作...
...you may have a bigger house or a smaller house...
...你可能有栋更大的或者小一些的房子...
Right?
对不对？
But the superficial difference...
但是表面上的不同...
...both biologically and physically...
...包括生理上和身体上的...
...is natural, it is there, it is a fact: you are tall...
...是很自然的，确实存在，这是事实：你个子高...
...another is short...
...另一个人矮...
...one is very, very clever...
...一个人非常非常聪明...
...the other is not, and so on.
...另一个人不聪明，等等。
But go beyond that or go below that...
而要进入超越那些表层或者潜藏于其下的那个领域...
...which is in the psychological world.
...是那心理世界。
In the psychological world...
在这心理世界中...
...we all share the same sorrow...
...我们都共有同样的悲伤...
...sorrow is common to all of us.
...悲伤对我们所有人来说是相同的。
You may have pleasure in one way but it is still pleasure.
你有某种形式的欢愉但那不过还是欢愉罢了。
It is still fear.
那还是恐惧。
You may be afraid of the dark...
你可能害怕黑暗...
...and another may be afraid of some other thing.
...另一个人可能害怕别的东西。
But fear is common to all of us. Right?
但恐惧是我们所有人共有的。对不对？
So we all share the same consciousness.
所以说，我们都共有相同的意识。
And you say to that, it sounds very logical, but is it true?
然后你说，“这听起来符合逻辑，但这是真的吗？
Is it a fact, or are you making something to be a fact...
这是个事实，还是只是你捏造的事实...
...because you want to bring about...
...因为你想带来...
...a non-individual existence which is unreal?
...一种非个体的不真实存在？”
So I say, listen to what I am saying...
于是我说，“请听我说的话...
...are you an individual at all?
...你到底是不是一个个体？”
Factually, are you?
事实上，你是吗？
Because you have a different complexion, different upbringing...
因为你有不一样的肤色，不一样的成长背景...
...you are a Catholic, I am a Protestant...
...你的是个天主教徒，我是个新教徒...
...you are a Buddhist, I am a Hindu and so on.
...你是个佛教徒，我是个印度教徒，等等。
Externally you are different, obviously.
外在地看，你确实不同，这很明显。
That is a fact.
这是个事实。
But inwardly, are you different?
但是内在地，你是不同的吗？
Please.
请想一想。
You say, yes, I am quite different.
你说，“是的，我很不一样。”
What makes you say that you are different?
是什么让你说你是不同的？
Is it because you think you are different?
是因为你觉得自己不同吗？
Or is it a fact that you are different? You understand?
还是事实上你真的与众不同？你明白吗？
Thinking is one thing, and the fact is another.
思考是一回事，事实是另一回事。
Thinking about a fact is something totally different from the fact.
思考一个事实，完全不同于那个事实本身。
The fact is are you different?
事实上，你是不同的吗？
Not that you think you are different.
不是你以为自己不同。
Psychologically, inwardly?
心理上，内在地？
We cheat, we lie, we want success, we want money.
我们欺骗，我们撒谎，我们想要成功，想要金钱。
This is a common thing to all human beings. Right?
这对于所有人类来说是共同的事情。对不对？
So we are saying there is no individual consciousness...
所以我们说没有个体意识...
...it is not your consciousness.
...那不是你的意识。
And you say, I don't believe it.
然后你说，“我不信。
It's your invention.
那是你发明的。”
I say, look, when you call yourself an individual...
我说，“看，当你把自己称为一个个体...
...what is the meaning of that word 'individual', the meaning?
...‘个体’这个词的意思是什么？它的含义？”
The root meaning of that word, it means indivisible.
这个词的词根意思是，不可分割的。
Right?
对不对？
Are you indivisible or fragmented?
你是不可分割的还是支离破碎的？
You understand?
你明白吗？
If you are fragmented, as you are, you are not an individual.
如果你是支离破碎的，你也正是如此，那么你就不是一个个体。
Don't use that word.
不要用这个词。
You are a fragmented human being...
你是个支离破碎的人类...
...like all other fragmented human beings.
...就像其他所有支离破碎的人类一样。
Individual means unique.
个体意味着独一无二。
You are not.
你不是。
We would like to be unique, we think we are unique...
我们想变得独特，我们认为我们是独特的...
...because we are clever, we are this...
...因为我们聪明，我们是这样的...
...you know, which is a form of vanity.
...你知道，这是一种虚荣的形式。
So when you examine it very closely, unbiased...
所以，当你很近地不带偏见地检视它时...
...without any sense of egotism in this...
...其中不带任何自我中心感...
...you find we are humanity.
...你会发现我们是整个人类。
We don't share the same consciousness, we are humanity.
我们不共有同样的意识，我们是整个人类。
I wonder if you understand this?
我想知道你是否明白了这点。
When you hear that statement...
当你听到这个说法...
...either you accept it as an idea...
...你要么作为一个观点接受它...
...or hearing that statement you make an abstraction of it...
...要么听到这个说法你把它抽象化...
...and say, it is a good ideal.
...然后说，这是个不错的理想。
Right?
对不对？
And you say, you are avoiding the fact...
你说，你是在逃避事实...
...when you make an ideal of the fact.
...如果你把这个事实当成了理想的话。
Right?
对不对？
So please look at the fact...
所以，请看着这个事实...
...that every human being in the world goes through...
..世界上的每个人经历着...
...all kinds of problems, misery, unhappiness...
...各种各样的问题，苦难，不幸...
...and if he is a clever man and wants to earn money...
...如果他是个聪明人，想要挣钱...
...he does all kinds of crooked things, you know, the whole game.
...他做各种各样不正当的事情，你知道的，这整个游戏。
And we all do the same thing in a different way...
我们都在以不同的方式做着同样的事情...
...but the motive, the urge is the same.
...其中的动机、渴望是相同的。
And you reply to all that, yes, I follow it all logically...
对于所有这些，你回答道，“是的，我从逻辑上跟上了...
...but I can't feel...
...但是我感觉不到...
...the depth of your statement that we are humanity...
...你的说法的深度，即我们是整个人类...
...the feeling of it.
...感觉不到。”
Then the speaker says, why, why don't we feel...
然后讲话者说，“为什么，为什么我们感觉不到...
...this tremendous sense of wholeness in humanity?
...这种巨大的人类一体感？”
You understand?
你明白吗？
Not that we share the earth...
不是因为我们共有一个地球...
...the earth is our mother...
...地球是我们的母亲...
...and we are all born, etc., etc.
...我们都诞生于世间，等等，等等。
I know that's the latest fashion...
我知道这是最新的时尚...
...another fad in this country.
...这个国家的另一种流行。
Do you realise this, we move from fad to fad...
你认识到没有，我们从一种流行走向另一种流行...
...the latest box we fall into.
...然后坠入最新的时尚之中。
So, if one can look at the fact...
所以，如果一个人能看着这事实...
...and not make an idea of it...
...不把它概念化...
...or an abstraction of it as an ideal...
...或者把它抽象为一种理想...
...but remain with the fact...
...而是与这事实共处...
...that we are really the whole of humanity...
即我们真的是整个人类...
...psychologically...
...心理层面上确实如此...
...then that feeling when you remain with the fact...
...那么，与这事实共处的感觉...
...it gives a sense of tremendous energy...
...就会给你一种巨大的能量感...
...and there is no separation in this.
...其中没有分裂。
Let's move to the next question.
让我们进入下一个问题。
2nd QUESTION: Have you designated a special teacher...
第二个问题：你是否指定过一个特殊的老师...
...or a person, to carry on your Teachings after you have gone?
...或者一个人，在你过世后来传承你的教诲？
Someone is claiming this position.
有人宣称自己获得了这个身份。
Have you designated a special teacher or person...
你是否指定过一个特殊的老师或者人...
...to carry on your Teachings after you have gone?
...在你过世后来传承你的教诲？
Where?!
哪呢？！
Someone is claiming this position.
有人宣称自己获得了这个身份。
I wonder why he is claiming this position.
我想知道他为什么宣称自己获得了这个身份。
I know this is happening.
我知道这种事情正在发生。
I know the various people who are doing this kind of rubbish...
我知道有各式各样的人在做这种垃圾行为...
...but what are they claiming?
...但是他宣称获得的是什么？
Why do they want to follow somebody, after somebody?
他们为什么想要追随某人，跟随某人？
Suppose - not suppose - K is going to die.
假设-不是假设-克要死了。
The speaker is going to die.
讲话者要死了。
That's certain, as all of us are going to die.
这是肯定的，因为我们所有人都要死。
That is one absolute, irrevocable fact...
这是一个绝对的，不可反转的事实...
...whether you like it or not.
...不管你喜不喜欢。
Fortunately, or unfortunately, he has said many things...
幸运的是，或者不幸的是，他说过很多东西...
...written some books, and become somewhat...
...写了些书，变得有些...
...may I use the word 'notoriety'...
...如果我可以用“臭名昭著”这个词...
...notorious, not as a criminal...
...臭名昭著，不是作为一个罪犯...
...but some kind of freak, or religious teacher, another freak...
...而是某种怪物，或者宗教导师，另一种怪物...
...or some kind of biological exception.
...或者某种生物学上的例外。
And because of that, a sense of reputation in the world...
因此，在这个世界上拥有了某种名誉感...
...which is so ugly...
...这很丑陋...
...and it has no meaning, reputation...
...而且没有意义，名誉...
...someone wants, or feels, or thinks himself...
...有人想要，或者感觉，或者认为自己...
...that he is going to carry on K's work.
...将继续克的工作。
Why?
为什么？
Probably it is very profitable...
可能这非常有利可图...
...both financially...
...不仅是财政上...
...and you can say, well, I can collect a lot of silly people.
...而且你可以说，“好，我可以聚集一堆愚蠢的人。”
This is happening in the world.
世界上正发生着这种事。
In the church there is the apostolic succession...
在教会里有宗徒传承...
...you know, handed down.
...你知道的，传位下去。
They have it too in India, in a different way.
这种事情他们在印度也有，方式不同而已。
So we all love authority.
所以说我们都爱权威。
We all want to follow someone who says, I know.
我们都想跟随某个说“我知道”的人。
And we are all so gullible.
我们都这么容易上当受骗。
We never say, look, I just want to live...
我们从不说，“看，我只是想生活...
...I want to find out what you say, what you are...
...我想去发现你说的话，你是怎样的人...
...not what you represent, or your symbol, and all the rest of it.
...不是你代表谁，或者你的象征以及等等其他的。”
What you are.
你是怎样的人。
And you begin to doubt, question, what you are.
你开始质疑，询问“你是怎样的人”。
And you soon discover that it is nothing very much.
你很快就会发现没什么大不了的。
So, K is saying, the speaker is saying...
所以，克说，讲话者在说，
...he has designated no one...
...他没有指定任何人...
...no teacher, or anyone to represent...
...任何导师，或者任何人作为代表...
...after he has gone to...
...在他去了...
England.
...英国之后，
...where he is going next week.
...他下周要去那里。
It is all rather silly, isn't it?
这相当愚蠢，是不是？
3rd QUESTION: What do you mean by observing thought...
第三个问题：深入到思想的根源...
...down to its very roots?
...去观察思想，你这么说是什么意思？
I watch my thoughts...
我看着我的思想...
...but each one leads to another in an endless chain.
...但是每个思想都引起另一个思想，循环往复永无停歇。
What is the factor that ends this?
终止这些的因素是什么？
What actually brings change?
什么带来真正的改变？
What do you mean by observing thought down to its very roots?
你说深入到思想的根源去观察它，这是什么意思？
I watch my thoughts but each one leads to another in an endless chain.
我看着我的思想，但是每个思想都引起另一个思想，循环往复永无停歇。
What is the factor that ends this?
终止这些的因素是什么？
What actually brings change?
什么带来真正的改变？
We will answer this question.
我们将回答这个问题。
We will stop this back and forth.
我们将停止这循环往复。
One of the questions is...
其中一个问题是...
...can thought be aware of itself?
...思想能觉察它自己吗？
One is thinking about...
你在考虑...
...what you will do when you get home.
...你回家以后要做些什么。
You are thinking what you will do when you get back.
你在考虑你回去以后要做些什么。
And you want to find out...
你想要发现...
...what is the quality of that thought...
...思想的特质是什么...
...and can that thought be aware of itself?
...思想能否觉察自己？
You understand my question?
你明白我的问题吗？
I am thinking of my next meal.
我在考虑我的下一顿饭。
Now can thought be aware that it is thinking of the next meal?
那么思想能够发现自己正在想下一顿饭吗？
Or is there an observer who says...
还是有一个观察者说...
...I am thinking about my next meal?
...我在考虑我的下一顿饭？
You understand?
你明白吗？
Right?
对不对？
Is the observer different from the observed?
观察者是不同于被观察者的吗？
You understand?
你明白吗？
Is he different?
是不同的吗？
Or both are thought?
还是都是思想？
Isn't it?
不是吗？
The observer is thought...
观察者是思想...
...and that which he is observing as thought is still thought.
...他当做思想来观察的东西还是思想。
So the observer is thought.
所以说观察者就是思想。
The observer is all the accumulated memories of the past.
观察者是过去积累起来的所有记忆。
Right?
对不对？
And the observer then says...
然后观察者说...
...I am going to watch my thinking.
...我要观察我的思想。
I am going to watch what I think.
我要观察我在想什么。
I want to find out the root of my thinking.
我想要找出我思想的根源。
Right?
对不对？
The observer is saying this.
观察者在这么说。
But the observer is also thought.
但是观察者也是思想。
So two thoughts, one thought is watching the other thought.
所以，两个思想，一个思想在观察另一个思想。
So the common factor between the two is thought.
所以这两者之间共同的因素是思想。
Right?
对不对？
And what is the root of thought?
而思想的根源是什么？
That is the question.
这是个问题。
What is the root of it?
它的根源是什么？
What is the root of all our thinking...
我们所有思想的根源是什么...
...because we all think.
...因为我们都思考。
The greatest scholar, the great scientists...
最伟大的学者，最伟大的科学家...
...and the most ignoramus, the most primitive person thinks.
...最无知的人，最原始的人都思考。
So what is the root of thinking?
那么思想的根源是什么？
And is it possible to find the root of thinking...
是否可能发现思想的根源...
...and is it also possible not to think at all?
...而且是否可能根本就不思考？
We are going to go into all that.
我们将深入所有这些问题。
If I ask you a question, what is thinking, what is your reply?
如果我问你一个问题，思想是什么，你怎么回答？
Probably you would say, I have never thought about it...
可能你会说，“我从没想过这个...
...I have never gone into this question.
...我从没深入过这个问题。”
And I say, why not...
然后我说，为什么不呢？...
...because all your life is based on thought...
...因为你所有的生活都是基于思想啊...
...business, everything you do is based on thought?
...事业，你所做的每一件事都基于思想。
Why aren't you interested in finding out what is thinking?
你为什么对发现思想是什么不感兴趣呢？
What's wrong with you?
你出了什么问题？
You explore so many things...
你探索那么多东西...
...you go under the sea, you go in the air...
...你深入海底，你进入高空...
...you do all kinds of things, exploring...
...你做各种各样的事，探索着...
...but you have never given...
...但是你从未将...
...your energy or your urge...
...你的能量或者你的渴望...
...to find out what is thought.
...用于发现思想是什么。
And you say, sorry, I have never done it.
然后你说，“对不起，我从未做过这件事。”
And so we say: look...
于是我们说：看着...
...carefully observe what thought is first...
...先仔细地观察思想是什么...
...what it does...
...它在做什么...
...what it has done in the technological world...
...它在技术世界做了些什么...
...and also what it is doing psychologically...
...又在心理领域做着些什么...
...what it is doing in its relationship to others.
...它在和别人的关系中做了什么。
This whole movement, the technological world...
这整个运动，在技术世界进行着...
...what is happening psychologically, inwardly...
...在心理层面，内在地发生着什么...
...and what is happening in your relationship through thought.
...通过思想你的关系发生着什么。
This movement of thought, from the extreme technological world...
这个思想的运动，从纯粹的技术世界...
...to the personal psychological world, and the relationship...
...到个人心理世界...
...between the psychological world and the next person.
...到他的心理世界和另一个人之间的关系。
It's the same movement, thought.
都是同样的运动，思想。
Now what does it do in the relationship between you and another?
那么，在你和别人之间的关系中，它的作用是什么？
Right? What does it do?
对不对？它做什么？
You say, I don't know, because I have never thought about it.
你说，“我不知道，因为我从来没想过。
Even if I thought about it I don't know how to go into it.
即使我想过，我也不知道该怎么深入。”
And you leave it like that, hoping somebody will come along...
然后你把它就这么扔在一边，希望有人会走过来...
...and explain the whole thing.
...解释这整件事情。
Which means that you are not...
这意味着你并不...
...forgive me for pointing out...
...请原谅我指出来...
...you are not really concerned.
...你并不真的在意。
If you are concerned you work at it.
如果你在意，你会花工夫的。
You are concerned to earn a livelihood...
你关心的是赚钱谋生...
...and you jolly well work at it.
...你的确在那上面花很多工夫。
But here you say, sorry, I am used to this, or my parents...
但是这里你说，“对不起，我习惯了这些，或者我的父母...
...past generation upon generation, are used to thinking...
...一代代的祖先，都习惯于思考...
...they have never gone into this question at all.
...他们根本从来没有深入过这个问题。”
And so you brush it aside and go on.
所以你就把它扫在一边，继续原来的生活。
Whereas if you begin to apply, look, perceive...
但是，如果你开始致力于看，觉察...
...committed to find out...
...致力于发现...
...you must find out...
...你必然会发现...
...then you say...
...然后你说...
...why is it that I can answer certain things very quickly...
...“为什么我能很快地回答某些问题...
...instantly...
...立刻回答...
...other things I take time.
...而另一些问题我就得慢慢来。”
Right?
对不对？
So an instant response...
所以，立刻回答，或者...
...taking time before response...
...在回答之前要花时间...
...and ultimately saying, I really don't know, I don't know.
...最后说，“我真的不知道，我不知道。”
Right?
对不对？
These are our states of thinking...
这些就是我们思想的状态...
...instant reply, taking time...
...立刻回答，或者慢慢来...
...to respond to a question...
...回应一个问题...
...thinking, looking, watching, asking...
...思考，查看，观察，询问...
...reading about it and then say, this is the answer.
...阅读，然后说，这就是答案。
And the other is to say, I really don't know.
而另一个说，我真的不知道。
So these are the states we go through.
所以这是我们经历的状态。
Now when you answer quickly...
那么，当你回答的很快...
...you are familiar with it, it's everyday.
...这种情况你很熟悉，每天都在发生。
You know the way to your home, you know the way...
你知道回家的路，你知道该如何...
...to turn on the heater and so on, wash the dishes.
...打开加热器等等，如何洗盘子。
But if one asks you something much more complex you take time.
但是如果有人问你更复杂的事情，你就得花时间慢慢来。
And if there is a question...
如果有个问题...
...like is there eternity, you say, I don't know.
...比如是不是有永恒，你会说，“我不知道”。
When you say, 'I don't know'...
当你说“我不知道”的时候...
...either you are waiting for somebody to tell you...
...要么你在等别人告诉你...
...or you don't accept anything from anybody...
...要么你不接受任何人说的任何事...
...but you say, I don't know. Right?
...但是你说，“我不知道”。对不对？
So let's examine what is the root of thinking.
所以让我们来检视思想的根源是什么。
Please, you must work at this...
请你们务必致力于此...
...otherwise there is no fun in this...
...否则这没什么好玩的...
...just to listen and say, yes, this is so, and walk off.
...只是听了然后说，“是的，就是这样”，然后走掉。
But to apply, find out, go into it...
而是要致力于，去发现，去深入...
...then it becomes extraordinarily interesting.
...于是这变得极其有趣。
Thought is surely memory...
思想确实是记忆...
...or rather the response of memory.
...或者是记忆的反应。
Right?
对不对？
If there was no memory you can't think.
如果没有记忆，你就不能思考。
That's obvious.
这很明显。
If you are in a state of amnesia you can't think.
如果你处于失忆症状态，你就不能思考。
So what is memory?
那么记忆是什么？
Please, you are working, just don't listen...
请注意，你是在工作，不要只是听...
...you are working to find out.
...你是在努力发现。
What is memory?
记忆是什么？
One is driving a car, going along...
你在开车，往前开...
...and you look in another direction...
...可你往别的方向看...
...and you have an accident - I hope not you, I am.
...然后就出了意外-我希望不是你，是我。
I am having an accident.
我发生了意外。
And that accident causes pain and all the rest of it.
那场意外导致了痛苦以及其他所有一切。
So that accident has been recorded in the brain...
于是那场意外就被记录在了脑子里...
...as memory of that incident.
...成为那场意外的记忆。
Right?
对不对？
So that accident has brought certain knowledge.
所以那场意外带来了某种知识。
Right?
对不对？
And that accident has been an experience.
那场意外成为一次经验。
Right?
对不对？
So that accident is an experience...
那场意外是一次经验...
...which has brought knowledge...
...它带来了知识...
...and that knowledge has been stored in the brain as memory.
...那知识被当做记忆储存在了脑子里。
Right?
对不对？
And the response to that memory is thought.
而对那记忆的反应就是思想。
Right? That's simple.
对不对？这很简单。
Right?
对不对？
So my experience is limited...
所以我的经验是局限的...
...my knowledge is limited...
...我的知识是局限的...
...my memory is limited, so my thought is limited.
...我的记忆是局限的，所以我的思想是局限的。
Right? These are facts.
对不对？这些是事实。
So whatever thought does is limited.
所以，不管思想做的是什么，总是局限的。
Whatever it does, whether it imagines...
不管它做什么，不管它是不是想象...
...there is eternity, it's limited...
...有永恒存在，它是受限的...
...whether god, invented by thought...
...思想发明的上帝...
...that god will still be limited.
...那上帝也还是局限的。
I can give him various attributes, say he is omnipotent...
我能给他很多特性，比如说他是万能的...
...he is all powerful, all compassion, but he is still limited...
...他是无所不能的，大慈大悲，但他还是局限的...
...because thought has put him there.
...因为是思想把他放在那儿的。
Right?
对不对？
So thought is limited.
所以思想是局限的。
Right?
对不对？
Do we see this fact?
我们看清这个事实了吗？
Not my explanation of the fact...
不是我对这个事实的解释...
...but the fact that thought is always limited...
...而是思想总是受限的这个事实...
...because it is based on knowledge.
...因为它是以知识为基础的。
Knowledge can expand...
知识可以扩展...
...more, and more, and more, and more.
...变得越来越多，越来越多。
When there is more, there is still more.
当已经有了更多，还会有更多。
You understand?
你明白吗？
More is a measurement.
更多是一种衡量。
Right?
对不对？
So the 'more', which is measurement...
所以，“更多”作为一种衡量...
...and that measurement is limited.
...这种衡量本身就是局限的。
Whenever I say, I am better, it is limited.
无论何时，只要我说，“我更好”，那就是局限。
Right?
对不对？
So thought is limited.
所以思想是局限的。
And all our actions based on thought naturally must be limited.
那么我们所有基于思想的行动自然必定是局限的。
Clear?
清楚了吗？
That's a fact. Now what does limitation do?
这是个事实。那么，局限又起到什么作用呢？
When I am thinking about myself, which is very limited...
当我考虑我自己，这是很局限的...
...I spend all my days thinking about myself...
...我花去所有的时日考虑我自己...
...that limitation creates...
...这种局限就制造了...
...trouble for somebody else...
...别人的麻烦...
...to my wife, to my husband, to my children...
...给我妻子，我的丈夫，我的孩子们制造了麻烦...
...because I am thinking about myself which is very small.
...因为我在考虑我自己，这是很渺小的。
Any action that is limited must bring conflict.
局限的行为必然带来冲突。
Right?
对不对？
My country, small...
我的国家，渺小的国家...
...the country may be enormous...
...这国家可能幅员辽阔...
...many thousands of miles across...
...跨越数千英里...
...but my concept of my country is very small.
...但是我对我的国家的概念十分渺小。
I can imagine it is not...
我能想象它不渺小...
...but it is still that imagination saying...
...但是还是那个想象在说...
...it is very large, it is marvellous - it is still limited.
...它是伟大的，它是奇妙的-那依然是局限的。
So that limitation is creating conflict with another limitation...
所以那局限制造了和另一个局限之间的冲突...
...with a British limitation, or...
...和一个英国的局限，或者...
...which is your common enemy now?
...现在你们共同的敌人是谁？
So it goes on.
于是它继续下去。
So, do we see this fact that limitation...
所以，我们是否看清了这个事实，即那局限...
...must create division and therefore conflict?
...必然制造界分，进而制造冲突？
And we have accepted conflict as inevitable...
我们已经接受冲突是不可避免的...
...as part of our existence.
...是我们生存的一部分。
And we have never asked...
我们从未问过...
...is it possible to live without conflict?
...是否可能没有冲突地生活？
And it is only possible if you understand...
只有你了解了...
...the whole significance of thought.
...思想的整个作用那才有可能。
And to find out what place has thought...
去发现思想的作用是什么...
...and where thought has no place at all.
...发现思想根本没有作用的那个地方在哪？
You understand?
你明白吗？
Thought has a place...
思想有它的作用...
...when you go from here to your house, drive a car...
...当你从这里开车回家的时候...
...write a letter, do your business, the computer...
...写信，做生意，打电脑...
...and all the rest of it, thought there is necessary.
...以及其他所有一切，思想在这里是必要的。
And in the psychological world is it necessary at all...
而在心理世界，到底需不需要它...
...which is my relationship with another?
...在我和别人的关系中需要吗？
Go into it, sir, work it out.
深入进去，先生，解决它。
In your relationship with another, intimate or not...
在你和别人的关系中，不管亲密与否...
...has thought a place...
...思想有它的地位吗...
...knowing that thought is limited, divisive, therefore conflict?
...知道了思想是局限的，分裂的，因而是冲突的？
If you see that as an actuality...
如果你看清这是一个事实...
...not just a theory, a concept...
...不只是一个理论，一个概念...
...then that very perception, the seeing of it...
...那么这觉察本身，看到事实本身...
...then relationship means something entirely different.
...就让关系的意义完全不同了。
Right?
对不对？
So one asks then much further...
于是一个人进一步问...
...perhaps this is not the moment...
...也许时候还没到...
...is love an attribute of thought?
...爱是思想的一个特质吗？
What is the relationship of love to thought?
爱和思想的关系是什么？
Has it any relationship, or no relationship at all?
它们有任何关系吗？还是根本就无关？
We will go into that when we talk about all this.
在谈到所有这些的时候，我们会深入进去的。
But the question is: what is the root of thought...
但是现在的问题是：思想的根源是什么...
...and whether thought can bring about a change?
...思想是否能带来改变？
Please understand, this is the question.
请了解，这是那个问题。
What is the factor that ends this...
终结这些的因素是什么...
...the continuity, the chain of continuity...
...这连续性，这连续的链条...
...and what actually brings change?
...什么会带来真正的改变？
Can thought bring change?
思想能带来改变吗？
You understand?
你明白吗？
That which is limited thinks it can change.
那局限的东西以为它能改变。
And therefore when it tries to change it will still be limited.
所以当它努力改变的时候，它还是局限的。
I wonder if you see all this.
我想知道你是否看到了这些。
This is not clever, logical conclusions but actuality.
这不是机巧的逻辑的结论，而是事实。
There must be change in human behaviour...
人类的行为必然会改变...
...human endeavour, human existence. That's obvious.
...人类的努力，人类的存在会改变。这是很明显的。
But when thought organises the change...
但是如果是思想组织了这些改变...
...that change is still limited, therefore no change at all.
...那么那改变就依然是局限的，因而根本就没改变。
When thought says, I am going to create an organisation...
当思想说，我要创造一个组织...
...the new world, the new box you invent...
...一个新世界，你发明的新匣子...
...that is created by thought.
...这都是思想制造的。
Therefore that organisation, that foundation, that institution...
所以，那组织，那基金会，那机构...
...is limited, and it is going to create conflict.
...是局限的，将会制造冲突。
Right?
对不对？
So what is it that brings about change?
那么，是什么带来改变？
You are following all this?
你们跟上这些了吗？
Somewhat at least.
至少跟上一些了吧。
Thought obviously cannot.
很明显思想不能。
It can organise change.
它能组织改变。
Organisation is put together by thought.
组织是思想造作的。
It can plan change but the planning is limited.
它能计划改变，但计划是受限的。
So when one realises, sees the fact, the truth...
所以当一个人认识到，看到这事实，这真相...
...that thought cannot possibly bring about a change...
...即思想不可能带来改变...
...because thought itself is limited...
...因为思想本身是局限的...
...and therefore whatever it does is limited.
...所以无论它做什么都是局限的。
Right? Therefore what will bring change?
对不对？那么什么会带来改变？
The thing is laid before you very clearly.
事情已经清晰地呈现在你眼前。
Verbally, the description is accurate...
语言上，描述是准确的...
...not exaggerated...
...没有夸张...
...and it's left to you to answer that question...
...这个问题留给你来回答...
...as thought cannot possibly bring about change, mutation...
...既然思想不可能带来改变，突变...
...total psychological revolution...
...带来彻底的心理革命...
...then what will?
...那么什么会呢？
So thought says, 'Yes, god, I'll pray.'
于是思想说，“是的，上帝，我会祈祷。”
This is happening. 'I'll pray.'
这确实在发生。“我会祈祷的。”
Prayer again is invented by thought, therefore very limited.
祈祷也是思想发明的，因而是很局限的。
So if one sees the fact, the truth...
所以，如果一个人看清这事实，这真相...
...that thought is absolutely limited...
...即思想是绝对局限的...
...then what takes place in the brain?
...然后脑子里会发生什么？
Answer it, examine.
回答它，检视它。
When one realises actually the fact...
当一个人真正认识到了事实...
...and an enormous fact it is...
...这个巨大的事实，那么...
...it is a tremendous revolution to see the fact.
...看清这个事实就是一个巨大的革命。
Already revolution has taken place when you see the fact.
当你看到这个事实时，革命就已经发生了。
Because we never... we said, thought can do anything...
因为我们从未...我们说，思想能做任何事...
...it can, it has gone to the Moon, and put a silly flag on there.
...它能，它已经登月了，还把一面愚蠢的旗子插在了那儿。
It can do anything, but always limited.
它能做任何事请，但总是局限的。
If you see that revolutionary fact...
如果你看到了这个革命性的事实...
...there is already a mutation of the cells themselves in the brain.
...脑子里的细胞本身就已经发生了突变。
I wonder if you understand this?
我想知道你们明白了这点吗？
One has walked all one's life north...
一个人一辈子都在往北走...
...going always north - suppose.
...总是往北走-假设说。
And you come along and say, sorry, that leads nowhere...
你过来说，“对不起，往那边走哪儿也去不了...
...try going east or west or south.
...试着往东面或者西面或者南面走走。”
And I say, yes, I'll go south.
于是我说，“是的，我会往南走。”
The very movement, where you had been going north...
你往北走的那个动作本身...
...has now suddenly changed to going south.
...现在就突然变成了往南走。
There is a mutation taking place...
有一个突变发生了...
...a change has taken place.
...改变发生了。
You have been going north habitually day after day...
你之前一直习惯性地往北走，日复一日...
...so the brain is conditioned going north.
...所以头脑一直受限着往北走。
Now you come and say, there is nothing there, you explain it...
现在你过来说，那边什么都没有，你也解释了...
...logically, sanely, so you say, quite right, I'll go south.
...逻辑地，理性地解释了，于是你说，很对，我要往南走。
That movement away from the north has brought about...
离开向北的那行动本身就带来了...
...a mutation in the very brain cells themselves.
...脑细胞自身的突变。
Right?
对不对？
You won't accept this, go into it, you will see it for yourself.
你不要接受这些，深入进去，你自己会看清楚。
The realisation of a truth...
认识到真相...
...that very realisation brings a radical change.
...那认识本身就带来了根本的改变。
There is no, 'I will meditate to change...
没有什么“我会冥想去改变...
...I'll make an effort to change.'
...我会努力改变。”
4th QUESTION: Please explain what you mean by saying...
第四个问题：请解释你说的这句话是什么意思...
...that if one perceives truth and does not act...
...“如果一个人看到了真相而不去行动...
...it acts as poison.
...那真相就成为一种毒药。”
Do you need an explanation for that?
你需要解释一下这个吗？
All right.
好吧。
I have heard the truth that thought is limited.
我听到了真相，即思想是局限的。
That's the truth, that's not an invention...
这是真相，不是一项发明...
...that's not an exotic idea...
...不是一个奇思妙想...
...something conceived by some idiot or other, it's a fact.
...不是某个白痴或者别人想出来的东西，而是个事实。
And I listen to the fact, the truth of it.
我听了这个事实，这个真相。
And I carry on my daily life.
然后我继续自己的日常生活。
What takes place?
然后会发生什么？
I have realised something to be true...
我认识到某件事是真实的...
...and I am acting quite the opposite to that.
...但是我的行为恰好相反。
What happens?
然后会发生什么？
Conflict increases more and more and more.
冲突在增加，越来越多，越来越多。
It is much better not to hear the truth...
没听过这个真相反而要好得多...
...then you can carry on in your old way.
...那么你就会继续自己原有的生活方式。
But the moment you hear something...
但是当你一听到某种...
...to be extraordinarily beautiful...
...非同寻常的美丽...
...and that beauty is not just a mere description...
...那美不只是一个描述...
...but the actuality of that beauty...
...而是那美的事实...
...when you do something ugly...
...当你再做丑陋的事情...
...and keep on repeating doing the ugly thing, it is obviously a poison.
...不断反复地做那丑陋的事情，那明显就变成了一种毒药。
It not only affects you physically, inwardly...
它不仅会从身体上，内在地影响你...
...and also it affects a great deal the brain...
...而且还深深地影响你的大脑...
...that has heard something to be true and does the contrary.
...因为你听到了那真实正确的却做了相反的事情。
Therefore it's much better not to hear...
所以还不如不听...
...if you want to carry on in your old way.
...如果你想要继续原来的生活方式的话。
There is a very good story of two robbers.
有一个很好的故事，讲两个强盗。
And they have been robbing...
他们一直在抢劫...
...and their father has been praising god...
...他们的父亲一直在感谢上帝...
...for his kindness, for their benefit - you understand...
...感谢他的仁慈和施舍-你知道...
...thieves have also gods, not only the rich people.
...贼也有上帝，不光是富人才有。
So one day they have been robbing somebody or other...
于是有一天，他们抢劫了某个人或者别的人...
...and they are coming back.
...然后回来了。
In the patio, in the square, piazza...
在露台，在院子里，门廊那儿...
...there is a man giving a sermon, and he is saying...
...有个人在布道，他说...
...you must never steal...
...“你们不可以再偷盗...
...you must never hurt another, be kind.
...你们必须不再伤害别人，要善良。”
The other brother closes his ears, he doesn't want to hear...
其中一个兄弟关闭了自己的耳朵，他不想听...
...and the other brother hears it.
...而另一个兄弟听到了。
And for the rest of his life he is in pain.
他此后的余生一直处于痛苦中。
I think this is a fact, really a great fact...
我想这是个事实，真真正正的巨大事实...
...and we don't seem to realise it...
...而我们看起来并没有认识到...
...that when something enormously beautiful...
...当一个极其美丽的东西...
...you see, you are sensitive enough to see that beauty...
...你看到了，你足够敏感能看到那美...
...and you do something ugly...
...可你却做了丑陋的事情...
...it really tortures you, if you are sensitive.
...这对你真是种折磨，如果你是敏感的。
And that's why truth is such a dangerous thing.
那就是为什么真相是这么危险的东西。
5th QUESTION: Why is the observance of silence...
第五个问题：为什么遵行寂静...
...so important for seekers of truth?
...对真理的追求者如此重要？
Why is the observance of silence so important for seekers of truth?
为什么遵行寂静对真理的追求者如此重要？
Who said this?
这是谁说的？
Who said that the observance of silence...
谁说遵行寂静...
...is necessary to perceive truth?
...是觉察到真相所必需的？
Has the speaker said it?
讲话者这么说过？
Or some other person said it?
还是有别的人这么说过？
Or have you searched for truth...
还是你寻求过真理...
...and you have discovered silence is necessary?
...然后发现寂静是必需的？
Can truth be searched?
真理能被追寻吗？
You understand my question?
你明白我的问题吗？
Can truth be sought after?
真理能被追寻吗？
If you seek truth you have already established what truth is.
如果你追寻真理，那你就已经确定真理是什么了。
Right?
对不对？
You are already moving in that direction.
你已经在朝着那个方向前进了。
Which means truth is something fixed...
那意味着真理是个固定的东西...
...and you, in your search for truth you find it...
...而你，通过找寻，能够发现真理...
...because truth is already preconceived...
...因为真理已经被预想出来了...
...and you go after it.
...你要去追寻它。
Now, why do you think silence is necessary?
那么，你为什么觉得寂静是必需的？
I don't know.
我不知道。
Somebody says so.
有人这么说。
So I am not going to listen to another, however reputed...
所以我不想听别人说，不管他多么有名...
...or has a great reputation and all that nonsense.
...或者有巨大的声望以及所有那些废话。
I am going to find out.
我要去发现。
Can a chattering mind, brain, chattering, ever listen to anything?
一颗喋喋不休的心，头脑，喋喋不休地，能倾听任何事情吗？
You are chattering, talking to your friend, and you come along and say...
你在闲聊，跟你的朋友说话，然后你走过来说...
...I want to tell you something.
...我想告诉你一件事。
You don't listen because you are chattering.
你不会听，因为你在聊天。
So can a chattering mind listen?
所以，一颗喋喋不休的心能够聆听吗？
Obviously not.
很明显不能。
So to listen you have to pay attention.
所以要倾听，你就得付出注意力。
Right? That's natural.
对不对？这是自然的。
To pay attention...
付出注意力...
...is rather difficult because we never attend to anything completely...
...这相当难，因为我们从不全神贯注于任何事...
...we say partially, listen partially...
...我们部分地说，部分地听...
...talk partially, and do this partially.
...部分地谈话，部分地做这些。
We never proceed to find out anything to its very end.
我们从不前去发现任何事请的最尽头。
I don't know where the end is but we will go on...
我不知道终点在哪，但是我们会继续...
...until we discover something.
...直到我们有所发现。
So can a chattering mind, can a mind that is occupied...
所以，一颗喋喋不休的心，一颗被占据的心...
...from morning until night, and during the night...
...从早到晚，在夜里也被占据着...
...can it ever be quiet?
...它能安静下来吗？
Not to find truth, good god!
不要去寻找真理，老天！
It's an ordinary question.
这是个普通的问题。
Please answer it for oneself...
请自己去解答...
...can a brain that is occupied...
...一个被占据的头脑...
...with business, with sex, with pleasure, with fear...
...被生意，被性，被欢愉，被恐惧...
...with its loneliness, you follow, occupied with something or other...
...被孤独，（你跟上了吗）被这样或那样的事占据...
...with its hair, how it looks, how it doesn't look.
...被发型，外表看起来如何或者不如何所占据。
You know, all the rest of it - it is occupied...
你知道，所有这些东西，它被占据着...
...with god, with Jesus...
...被上帝，耶稣...
...with saviours, with meditation...
...被救世主，被冥想占据...
...think of that: being occupied with meditation!
...想想这个：被冥想占据！
So the natural question then is: is it possible to stop...
所以问题自然就是：有没有可能停止...
...this tremendous endless continuity of occupation?
...这巨大的延绵不绝的占据？
It would be natural to stop...
那占据自然会停止...
...when you are attending to something.
...如果你全神贯注于某件事。
If you are attending to what the speaker is saying now, attend...
如果你全神贯注于讲话者现在说的话，关注...
...which is listening, you are not occupied, you are listening.
...就是倾听，你就没有被占据，你在聆听。
But in that listening you say, no, I don't quite agree with that...
但是如果你听的时候说，“不，我不太同意你说的话...
...I think you are right, I think you should put it differently...
...我想你是对的，我想你应该换种方式说...
...I understand this differently...
...我对此的理解不同...
...why do I understand it differently, and so on.
...我为什么理解的不同，等等。
But if you actually listen...
但是如果你是真的在倾听...
...you are attentive, and attention is silence.
...你是全神贯注的，那关注就是寂静。
Right?
对不对？
I wonder why we make everything so complex.
我想知道为什么我们把每件事都变得这么复杂。
Life is complex, tremendously...
生活是复杂的，非常复杂...
...like the computer...
...就像计算机一样...
...it is a tremendously complex thing.
...它是个非常复杂的事情。
But to understand it one must have a very simple mind.
但是要了解它，就必须有一颗非常简单的心。
To have a simple clear mind, uncluttered...
拥有一个简单清澈的心，没有喋喋不休...
...then attention becomes extraordinarily simple.
...那么注意力就变得格外简单。
That's enough for today.
今天就讲到这里。
Are you all right?
你还好吧？
It's over.
结束了。 | 
发表于 2009-10-16 12:45
|