K: What would you like to talk about?
克：你们想讨论些什么呢？

S: Pride.
学：骄傲。

K: Pride.
克：骄傲。

Are you proud? S: At times.
你骄傲吗？学：有时候是。

K: Sometimes. Why?
克：有时候。为什么？

What are you proud about?
你因为什么而骄傲呢？

S: Achieving something.
学：为成就某事而骄傲。

K: Achieving.
克：成就。

What have you achieved?
你已经成就了什么？

Or you are admiring people who have achieved...
还是说你钦佩那些有所成就的人...

...or do you want to achieve?
...或者是你想有所成就？

Is that what you want to talk about - pride, achievement, success, money...
那就是你想讨论的吗--骄傲，成就，成功，金钱...

...position, power. Is that what you all want?
...地位，权力。这是你们所有人都想要的吗？

Probably you all do.
或许你们都想要那些。

Don't fool yourself, don't deceive yourself...
不要愚弄你自己，不要欺骗你自己...

...you all want to have those things.
...你们都想拥有那些东西。

S: No, sir, we all want it because in this world...
学：不，先生，我们都想要那些是因为在这个世界上...

...we can't live without those things.
...没有那些我们无法生存。

K: In these times, the boy says, we can't live without those things.
克：那个男孩说，在这样的时代，没有那些我们无法生存。

How do you know? S: Anywhere you see a poor man...
你是怎么知道的？学：无论何处你看到一个穷人...

K: You come out here!
克：你到这边来！

S: Anywhere you see a poor man, or anything, sir...
学：无论何处你看到一个穷人，或者其他什么，先生...

...they'll argue if you don't give them anything, or if you try...
...如果你不给穷人一些什么，他们就会批评你，或者如果你试图...

...to make them a nice man, they won't give you any respect.
...试图把他们改造成好人，他们是完全不会尊重你的。

K: So what do you want to be?
克：那么你想成为什么样的人呢？

S: Anything which we can achieve enough respect...
学：为了过上幸福的生活，我愿意做任何能为我们赢得充分尊重的事...

...for living a happy life, but not too much respect.
...但是不要太多的尊重。

K: You are quite right - not too much respect...
克：你说的非常对--不要太多的尊重...

...but a fairly comfortable life, and a happy life. Is that it?
...但是要过上相当舒适的生活，幸福的生活。是这样吗？

S: Yes.
学：是的。

K: Is that what you want? S: Yes.
克：那就是你想要的吗？学：是的。

K: Then go after it.
克：那就去追求那样的生活吧。

S: Sir, but it is not so easy unless you try and achieve it.
学：先生，但是那并不太容易，除非你努力去成就它。

K: Any other questions?
克：还有其它的问题吗？

S: What is the difference between meditation and concentration?
学：冥想和专注有什么区别？

S: What is the difference between meditation and concentration?
学：冥想和专注有什么区别？

K: I understood.
克：我明白了。

K: Do you really want to talk about that, or is it a game...
克：你真的想要讨论那个问题吗，还是只是把它当做一个游戏...

...or just fun to talk about something...
...或者只是觉得讨论些我可能感兴趣的事情...

...I may be interested in, is that it?
...会很有趣，是这样吗？

Do you really want to know what is meditation and concentration?
你真的想要知道什么是冥想和专注吗？

All right, sir.
好的，先生。

If you really want to talk about that...
如果你真的想要讨论这个问题...

...will you pay attention to what I am going to say?
...你能够全神贯注于我将要说到的内容吗？

S: Yes, sir.
学：是的，先生。

K: Don't say, 'Yes, sir', and fidget.
克：不要说，“是的，先生”，然后坐立不安。

Do you really want to talk about it?
你们真的想要讨论这个问题吗？

If you do it is a very, very serious subject.
如果你们想要讨论这个问题，那么它是个非常非常严肃的题目。

What do you think is concentration?
你们认为专注是什么？

S: Something which you really want to think about, sir.
学：那些你真正想要思考的事情，先生。

Think about deeply, go into it deeply, think about it deeply.
深入地思考，深入地探究，就那一点深入地思考。

K: Think about it deeply. S: Think about it deeply.
克：就那一点深入地思考。学：就那一点深入地思考。

K: Think about it deeply - what do you mean by that?
克：就那一点深入地思考--你那样说是什么意思？

S: Something which we want to keep our minds on.
学：那些我们想要将头脑专注其上的事情。

K: Come over here!
克：到这边来！

Something you want to keep you mind on.
那些你们想要将头脑专注其上的事情。

Right?
对吗？

Have you tried it?
你们试过那样做吗？

You want to look at those flowers, or your book...
你想要看那些鲜花，或者读你的书...

...or what your educator is saying.
...或者听你的老师正在说的话。

Have you ever looked at it very carefully, at those flowers...
你是否非常用心地看过那些鲜花...

...what the teacher is telling you, listen to him...
...倾听过老师正在告诉你些什么，去倾听他...

...and concentrate on a book, have you?
...专注于一本书，你有那样做过吗？

S: Sometimes. K: Sometimes.
学：有时候。克：有时候。

When does that happen?
什么时候会专注？

When you like it - right? S: Yes.
当你喜欢所做的事情的时候--对吗？学：是的。

K: Now, when you like something you put your attention, your thought...
克：那么，当你喜欢做某事的时候，你就会投入你的注意力，投入思索...

...your energy in observing it. Right?
...投入你的精力去观察它。对吗？

And that is generally called concentration.
通常那就被称作专注。

That is, you concentrate on the book you are reading - right?..
也就是说，你专注于你正在阅读的书--对吗？...

...or on something that you are looking very carefully...
...或者专注于你正非常用心看的一些事物...

...at those flowers - right?..
...譬如说那些鲜花--对吗？...

...or what your friend, or your teacher is telling you. Right?
...或者专注于你的朋友或者老师正在告诉你的事情。对吗？

S: Yes.
学：是的。

K: Have you ever watched very carefully...
克：你曾经非常用心地观察过吗...

...concentrated on something for a long time?
...曾经长时间地专注于某件事吗？

Not for a second or two but for a long time...
不是只观察一两秒钟，而是长时间地观察...

Have you done it?
你曾经那样做过吗？

S: I don't know, sir. K: Yes, try it now.
学：我不知道，先生。克：是，现在尝试一下。

Try now to listen very carefully to what somebody is saying to you...
现在尝试非常用心地倾听某人正在对你说的话...

...or look at those flowers for a long time...
...或者长时间地看那些鲜花...

...not allow any other thought to come in.
...不允许其他任何想法介入。

That's what concentration means, focusing...
那就是专注的意思，集中于一点...

...giving all your attention to something...
...投注你所有的注意力在某件...

...that you are listening to or reading a book...
...你在倾听的事情上或者阅读一本书...

...or watching something, a lizard going across the wall.
...或者在观察某物，观察一只爬过墙面的蜥蜴。

Will you do it, are you doing it now?
你会那样做吗，你现在正在那样做吗？

S: Yes. K: You are? Good!
学：是的。克：你在那样做？很好！

Now, when that takes place what happens?
那么，当你那样做时，会发生什么事？

S: We understand it.
学：我们会理解它。

K: Not only you understand but what is happening?
克：你不但会理解它，而且还在发生什么事情？

I'll explain to you presently, you think it out for yourself.
我等一下会向你解释，你来自己仔细思考一下。

Where do you come from?
你来自哪里？

S: Bangalore. K: Bangalore, good.
学：班加罗尔。克：班加罗尔，好的。

I have got two boys - now two girls?
我这儿已经有两个男孩子了--那么来两个女孩子吧？

Now, he wants to know what is the difference between concentration...
现在，他想要知道专注与冥想...

...and meditation.
...有什么区别。

Right?
对吗？

You don't know the word 'meditation', do you, what it means? No.
你们不知道“冥想”这个词是什么意思，对不对？不知道。

Nor do you know the meaning of the word 'concentration'?
你们也不知道“专注”这个词的意思？

S: Now I think I know. K: Now you know...
学：现在我想我知道了。克：现在你知道了...

...because I have pointed it out to you.
...因为我向你们指出了它的意思。

So concentration means 'focusing your thought, your energy on something'.
所以专注意指“将你的思想，精力集中于某事”。

S: Sir...(inaudible)
学：先生...(无法听清的)

K: Come over here!
克：到这里来！

Move a bit so that we give her more room.
请你挪一下，这样可以给她腾出点地方。

She is a big girl. Right? She is a big girl.
她是个大女孩了。对吗？她是个大女孩。

S: But isn't it difficult to concentrate on something...
学：但是要头脑里什么想法也没有...

...without any thought in your mind?
...而专注于某件事不是很困难的吗？

K: That's it. Is it not difficult - listen to it carefully...
克：是那样的。难道那不是很难吗--用心地听一下这点...

...is it not difficult to concentrate on something...
...难道要做到没有任何想法进入...

...without thoughts coming in?
...而专注于某件事不是很困难的吗？

S: I think it is.
学：我想是的。

K: It is difficult, isn't it?
克：那是困难的，不是吗？

So, then what do you do?
那么，接着你要怎么做？

S: We try and keep the other thoughts away.
学：我们试着把其他的想法赶走。

K: Away. Then who keeps the - I won't make it complicated for you.
克：赶走。那么是谁在赶走--我不想把这个问题弄得太复杂。

So, you concentrate on a book and other thoughts come in.
所以，你专注于一本书其他的想法却跑进你的头脑。

Right? S: Yes.
对吗？学：是的。

K: Then what do you do?
克：接着你会做什么？

S: You try to keep them away.
学：你努力把他们赶走。

K: Yes, you try to push other thoughts away.
克：是的，你试着将其他的想法推开。

Now what goes on in that process?
那么在那个过程中出现了什么情况？

I am concentrating on this, thoughts come in...
我正专注于此，一些想法进入我的头脑...

...then I try to push them away...
...接着我试图将它们推开...

...and then thoughts come in.
...然后想法又进入我的头脑。

So I keep this, don't I?
所以我不断地这样做，是吗？

Right? S: Yes.
对吗？学：是的。

K: Are you listening to what I am saying?
克：你在听我所说的话吗？

If you are not interested don't bother.
如果你对此不感兴趣，就不用费劲儿努力了。

S: I am thinking of an answer which you could give correctly.
学：我正在想你会怎样给出一个正确的回答。

K: I can't understand you.
克：我听不懂你说什么。

S: I am thinking of an answer which you could give correctly for it.
学：我正在想你怎样才能针对这个问题给出一个正确的回答。

K: Look, sir, I was telling you, when you concentrate on something...
克：你看，先生，我在告诉你，当你专注于某件事时...

...other thoughts come in. Right?
...其它的想法会跑进你的头脑。对吗？

Then you try to push those thoughts away...
然后你试图将那些想法推开...

...and then you try to concentrate.
...接着你努力去专注。

So there is this going on all the time. Right?
于是你始终这么循环往复着。对吗？

S: Why do those thoughts come in?
学：那些想法为什么会跑进头脑来？

K: Wait, wait, I am coming to that presently.
克：等一下，等一下，我等一下会谈到那一点。

First see what is happening.
首先看看正在发生什么。

You want to concentrate on something...
你想要专注于某件事...

...then thoughts come in and then you push them out...
...接着想法跑进头脑，然后你推开那些想法...

...and again thoughts come in and again you push them out.
...但是想法再一次跑了进来，你再一次推开它们。

So, you really are not concentrating, are you?
所以，你没有真正做到专注，对吗？

Because thoughts come in and disturb you.
因为思想会介入，并且干扰你。

Now, he asked, why do thoughts come in.
那么，他问我，为什么思想会介入。

Right? S: Yes.
对吗？学：是的。

K: You tell me why thoughts come in. I will tell you.
克：你们来告诉我思想为何会介入。我随后将告诉你们。

S: I think it is because we think about those things.
学：我想那是因为我们想到了那些事情。

Because when we are doing something something else happens...
因为当我们正在做某件事时，另外的事情发生了...

...and you think about it.
...于是你开始想那件事。

K: Yes, that is, you are thinking about this...
克：对，正是如此，你正在想这件事...

...you are also thinking about something else.
...你同时也在想另外一件事。

Is that it? S: Yes.
是这样吗？学：是的。

K: Why does this happen?
克：为什么会这样？

S: Sir, if you are thinking that... while you are concentrating...
学：先生，如果你正在思考那件事...尽管你在集中精神...

K: Come and sit here!
克：来，坐到这里来！

Sorry, three boys and a girl.
抱歉，这里有三个男孩一个女孩。

S: Sir, as you try to concentrate...
学：先生，当你试图去专注于某件事...

...you keep thinking that I should not allow thoughts to come in...
...你不停地想，我不应该让想法进入头脑...

...and so they come in. K: Yes, why do they come in?
...所以它们就进来了。克：是的，它们为什么会进入头脑？

S: Because you keep thinking about them.
学：因为你不停地想到那些事。

K: But you are also thinking about this.
克：但是你也正在想这件事。

S: Because we are suppressing them.
学：因为我们在压抑这些想法。

K: That's right.
克：正是如此。

You have got it.
你找出了答案。

You have understood what you have said?
你明白你刚才所说的话吗？

Not quite.
不是非常明白。

You are trying to concentrate on this, other thoughts come in...
你正试图专注于此事，其他的想法却进入头脑...

...then you try to suppress thoughts, only the other thoughts except this.
...接着你试图压抑那些想法，压抑除了这个想法以外其他的想法。

Right? So what is happening when you suppress?
对吗？那么当你压抑它们的时候什么事情发生了？

I suppress... I am uncomfortable...
我压抑...我觉得不舒服...

...I have eaten bad food, and I feel...
...因为我吃了不好的食物，并且我感觉到（不舒服）...

...and I try to suppress my pain.
...但是我试图压抑我的疼痛。

Why do you do that, why do you have suppressions, why do you suppress?
你为什么那样做，为什么会有压抑感，你为什么要压抑？

S: Because we think it will be nicer...
学：因为我们认为，如果你压抑它们，想法就不会再回来...

...if you suppress they won't come again...
...那会比较好...

...so you suppress it. K: That's right.
...所以你就压抑它。克：非常正确。

So, he says, when you suppress them they come back again.
所以他说，当你压抑它们的时候，它们还会回来。

So it is futile to suppress. Right?
所以压抑是徒劳的。对吗？

It would be wrong to suppress, futile to suppress.
去压抑是错误，徒劳的。

Then what will you do?
那么你要怎么做呢？

S: If you are really thinking about something very seriously, sir...
学：如果你非常认真地在思考某件事，先生...

...there are no other thoughts.
...就不会有其它的想法。

K: But other thoughts come in, old boy.
克：但是其他的想法会介入，孩子。

S: But when you are really thinking without any other things...
学：但是当你心无旁骛地在真正思考时...

...why should they come in?
...杂念为什么会介入呢？

K: Now wouldn't you try to understand why thoughts are always...
克：那么你是否要试着去了解思想为何总是...

...moving back and forth? Right?
...来了又去去了又来？对不对？

Wouldn't you ask that question?
你是否会问那个问题呢？

S: Sir...
学：先生...

Because we suppress thoughts come in and we can't control them...
因为我们压抑着思想的进入，并且我们无法控制思想...

...and we lose our concentration.
...接着我们就失去了专注的状态。

So what should we do because, sir, is it possible that...
所以我们应该怎么做呢，因为，先生，如果我们不管它们，那些...

...if we just leave it the other thoughts will go by themselves?
...想法会自己消失，这是可能的吗？

K: I haven't quite grasped it, have you?
克：我没有完全听懂，你们听懂了吗？

S: If you don't do anything with the other thoughts...
学：如果你不管其他的那些想法...

...if you don't pay attention to them, will they go away?
...如果你不注意它们，它们会消失吗？

Is that what you are saying?
你说的是这个意思吗？

K: Would you come up here?
克：你到这里来好吗？

Come up here, sit up here, don't be nervous.
到这里来，坐到这里来，不要紧张。

This is a very complex subject, isn't it?
这是一个非常复杂的题目，不是吗？

Most people, grown-up people, young people, are told from childhood...
大部分人，成年人们，年轻人们，从小就有人告诉他们...

...are you listening, listen carefully...
...你在听吗，请用心听...

...from childhood you are told to concentrate. Right?
...从小就有人告诉你要专心。对吗？

You want to look out of the window and the teacher says...
你想朝窗外看，老师却说...

...'Concentrate on your book'.
...“请专心看你的书”。

But you are really interested in watching that lizard on that wall.
但是你真正感兴趣的却是墙上的那只蜥蜴。

Right?
对吗？

And the teacher says, 'Don't look, pay attention to the book'.
老师说，“不要看，注意看你的书”。

So from childhood you are interested in watching the lizard...
所以从小你就对观察蜥蜴感兴趣...

...but the teacher says, 'Do this'.
...但是老师却说，“做这件事”。

S: Yes.
学：是的。

K: Now, if I were your teacher I would say...
克：那么，如果我是你的老师，我会说...

...'Let's both of us look at that lizard' - you understand?
...“让我们两个人都来看着那只蜥蜴”--你明白吗？

Not try to force you to look at the book.
而不是试图强迫你去看书。

You have understood what I am saying?
你明白了我所说的话吗？

S: Yes, sir.
学：是的，先生。

K: That is, you are watching that lizard - there is no lizard here!
克：那就是说，你正在观察那只蜥蜴--这里没有蜥蜴！

And your interest is in that lizard, not in the book.
并且你的兴趣在蜥蜴身上，而非书本当中。

So I, as a teacher, would tell you, 'Let both of us watch that lizard...
所以，我作为一名教师，会告诉你，“让我们一起来观察那只蜥蜴...

...very very carefully, see how it sticks to the wall...
...非常非常用心地观察，看它是如何粘在墙面上...

...how many claws it has...
...它有几只爪子...

...see the head, see the eyes'.
...看它的头部，看它的眼睛”。

Right? S: Yes, sir.
对吗？学：是的，先生。

K: I would help you to watch much more that than the book.
克：我会帮助你观察到比书本上更多的东西。

S: Sir, but I've got a question. K: What?
学：先生，但是我有一个问题。克：什么问题？

S: If the teacher, or in a class...
学：如果老师，或者在课堂上...

...children get distracted at different times...
...孩子们在不同的时间里都分心了...

...like I might get distracted at a certain time...
...比如我可能在某个时候分心了...

...and another person might get distracted at another time.
...而另一个人可能会在其他时候分心。

And if the teacher tends to all our distractions, sir...
如果老师在我们每个人分心的时候都给予关注，先生...

...how will she cover the portion? K: I am going to show you.
...她怎么能够顾得上课程那部分？克：我会告诉你怎样做到。

You are all so very clever here, aren't you?
你们这里的每个人都非常聪明，不是吗？

K: Where do you come from? S: Madras.
克：你从哪里来？学：马德拉斯。

S: My parents live in Zambia.
学：我的父母生活在赞比亚。

K: First of all, I have no distractions.
克：首先，我没有分心。

Don't call it distractions.
不要把那称为分心。

What is important is that you watch...
重要的是你要观察...

...pay attention, listen, that's important.
...全神贯注，倾听，那是重要的事情。

But there are no distractions.
但是那里没有分心。

Don't use the word 'distraction'. Right?
不要使用“分心”这个词。对不对？

Now, wait a minute, I help you to watch that lizard...
现在，请等一下，我会帮助你观察那只蜥蜴...

...or I help you to watch that boy sitting over there being restless...
...或者我会帮助你观察正不安地坐在那里的男孩子...

...fiddling with his fingers. Right?
...他正在乱动他的手指。是不是？

What I am helping you - not helping - what I am showing you...
我正在帮助你--不是帮助--我正在展示给你看...

...is when you pay attention to something...
...当你全神贯注于某件事...

...whether it is right or wrong...
...不去管它是正确的还是错误的...

...then you can pay attention to the book.
...接下来你就可以全神贯注于你的书本了。

You have got it? S: Yes, sir.
你明白了吗？学：是的，先生。

K: Are you sure? S: Yes, sir.
克：你确定吗？学：是的，先生。

K: That is, when you pay attention to that lizard...
克：那就是说，当你全神贯注于那只蜥蜴...

...you have learnt the art of attention.
...你就学会了关注的艺术。

And I am going to help all the boys...
并且我要帮助所有的男孩子...

...or twenty or fifteen boys with me to pay attention.
...20个或者15个男孩子和我一起来全神贯注。

And when there is attention there is no distraction.
那么当全神贯注时，是没有分心这回事的。

S: Then why don't teachers do that, sir?
学：那么老师们为什么不那样做呢，先生？

Suppose we get distracted in the class.
比如说我们在课堂上分心了。

K: There is no distraction, don't call it distraction.
克：没有什么是分心，不要把它称作是分心。

S: Suppose we want to watch something...
学：假设我们想要观察某个东西...

...then why don't the teachers help us to watch that thing?
...那么为什么老师们不帮助我们观察那个东西呢？

K: Ask them.
克：问他们。

I am telling you - come over here...
我在告诉你--到这里来...

Two girls. Right.
两个女孩子。这下对了。

Come up here, that's better!
到这里来，这样好多了！

All right? S: Yes, sir.
可以吗？学：是的，先生。

K: You are not shy? S: No, sir.
克：你不害羞？学：不，先生。

K: That's better.
克：这样好多了。

You are asking why don't your teachers tell you all this.
你在问为什么你的老师们不告诉你这些。

Right? S: Yes, sir.
对吗？学：是的，先生。

K: Why don't they tell you?
克：他们为什么不告诉你？

S: Sir, I think they want to finish their particular...
学：先生，我想他们想要完成他们各自的科目...

...whatever they wanted to teach us.
...不管他们想要教给我们什么科目。

K: That's right. They want to get it over.
克：就是这样。他们想解决自己教的科目。

They are bored, you are bored. Right?
他们觉得无聊，你们也觉得无聊。是吗？

And they want to quickly finish what they have to say...
并且他们想很快地结束他们必须要讲的东西...

...and get on to the next subject, or the next class.
...然后开始下面的题目，或者开始下一节课。

So they are bored with teaching.
所以教学令他们感到无聊。

Right?
对吗？

Now find out from them why they are bored...
现在来为他们找出他们为什么觉得无聊...

...why they want to finish quickly...
...他们为什么想要很快地结束...

...why don't they help you to pay attention?
...他们为什么不帮助你们全神贯注？

You understand?
你们明白吗？

If you pay attention to that lizard...
如果你全神贯注于那只蜥蜴...

...then you have learnt the art of attention.
...那么你就学到了关注的艺术。

Right? Have you got it?
对不对？你们明白了吗？

Then you can pay attention to the book, then there is no distraction.
接着你就能够全神贯注于你的书本，那么也就不会再有令你分心的事情。

S: But... K: Wait, wait, wait, old boy.
学：但是...克：等一下，等一下，等一下，孩子。

I haven't finished.
我还没有讲完。

If I were your teacher I would point out to you very carefully...
如果我是你们的老师，我会非常仔细地向你们指出...

...what attention is. Right?
...什么是全神贯注。对吗？

Attention is to pay complete energy, attention, to what you are watching.
全神贯注就是将你全部的能量，注意力都投注于你正在观察的事物。

Right?
对吗？

And if you learn that you can learn how to pay attention to your book.
并且如果你理解了这一点，你就能够学习到如何全神贯注于你的书本。

S: Yes, sir.
学：是的，先生。

S: You might be interested in the lizard only...
学：你可能只对蜥蜴感兴趣...

...and you might not like studying...
...而且你可能不喜欢学习...

...you won't be interested in your studies.
...你不会对你的学习感兴趣。

K: Somebody might not like to study.
克：有人可能不喜欢学习。

Then don't study. S: Sir, then you can keep...
那么就不要学习。学：先生，那么你可能会保持...

K: Find out, sir, find out.
克：去找出答案，先生，去找出答案。

Learn. Find out why you don't want to read books.
去学习。去找出你为什么不想读书的原因。

Now, you listen to me.
现在，你听我说。

We have talked about concentration, that is, you are thinking...
我们已经谈到了专注的问题，那就是，你正在思考...

...paying attention to something, then other thoughts come in...
...专注于某事，接着其它想法跑进来...

...and you push those thoughts out.
...接着你把那些想法驱赶出去。

And so there is always this conflict - wanting to pay attention to that...
所以那里总是有冲突--想要专注于某件事...

...thoughts come in, and so there is constant chattering of the brain...
...其他想法跑进来，所以头脑中是持续不断的喋喋不休...

...chattering, chattering, chattering. Right? Got it?
...喋喋不休，喋喋不休，喋喋不休。对吗？明白了吗？

Now, meditation, the word 'meditation'...
那么，冥想，“冥想”这个词...

...you know what that word is, you have heard about it?
...你知道这个词是指什么吗，你们听说过冥想吗？

S: Yes, sir.
学：是的，先生。

K: Meditation in English means also 'to measure'.
克：冥想在英语里的意思也指“去衡量”。

Right? 'To measure'.
对吗？“去衡量”。

As in Sanskrit, if you ask...
而在梵文里，如果你问...

S: Radhikaji. K: Radhikaji.
学：瑞迪卡吉。克：瑞迪卡吉。

By Jove, thank you for helping me...
天呐，谢谢你帮助我...

If you ask Radhikaji, she will tell you...
如果你问瑞迪卡吉，她会告诉你...

...'ma' is also 'to measure' in Sanskrit.
...“ma”在梵文里也是“去衡量”的意思。

So meditation also means 'to measure'.
所以冥想也意味着“去衡量”。

Now, without measurement there is no technological advancement at all.
那么，如果没有衡量就根本不会有科技的进步。

Agree? See that?
同意吗？明白这一点吗？

Do you see all this, what I am saying?
你们能够认识到这一切吗，我所说的一切？

S: I didn't understand that word which you said.
学：我不明白你所说的那个词。

K: You don't understand the word I am using?
克：你不理解我所用的那个词吗？

S: Yes. K: I am using 'to measure'.
学：是的。克：我用的是“去衡量”。

You have a tape measure, haven't you? S: Yes.
你们有卷尺，是吗？学：是的。

K: Meditation means also 'measurement'.
克：冥想也是指“衡量”。

S: I think he doesn't understand the word 'technology', technological.
学：我想他是不理解“科技”那个词，科技的。

K: Ah, you don't understand the word 'technology'?
克：噢，你不理解“科技”这个词？

Technique - to do something, say for instance you want to build a car...
科技--做一件事，比如说，你想要造一辆车...

...and you must know all the parts, put them together...
...那么你就必须了解车所有的部件，把它们组装在一起...

...they are all working together.
...这些部件在一起运转。

I have dismantled a car, put it all to pieces...
我曾经拆卸过一部汽车，把它拆成一个个的零件...

...and then put it all together hoping it will work.
...然后将它们装在一起，希望它能够运转起来。

But it did work. Right?
结果它真的运转起来了。对不对？

Learning about all the machinery, how it works, what are its components...
学习所有的机械，它们是如何运转的，它们的组成部分是什么...

...what are its measurements...
...它们的尺寸是什么...

...its metallic strength and so on, all that...
...它们所使用金属的强度是什么样的，等等，所有的那些...

...learning about that is called technology, some of it.
...学习关于那些的事情就被称作科技，有些这样的事情被称作科技。

Now, meditation, concentration, for me...
那么，冥想，专注，对我来说...

...are two entirely different things.
...是完全不同的两件事情。

S: Sir, quite often you concentrate without even trying to concentrate.
学：先生，经常是，你甚至不需要努力去专注，你就已经在专注了。

Like you will be doing something, you don't need to concentrate...
就像你要去做某件事，你不需要去专注于它...

...you will be concentrating.
...然而你已经专注于它了。

K: You can do something...
克：你能够做某件事...

...if you love something you don't have to concentrate.
...如果你喜爱这件事，你就不需要努力专注于它。

Have you understood that? S: Yes, sir.
你明白那点了吗？学：是的，先生。

K: If you love something there is no concentration.
克：如果你喜爱某件事，就不需要努力专注于它。

Do you love something? S: Quite a few things.
你有爱好吗？学：相当多。

K: You love quite a few things.
克：你的爱好相当多。

What are they? S: Sir, I like reading books.
都是些什么爱好？学：先生，我喜欢读书。

K: Flying kites? S: Yes, sir.
克：放风筝？学：是的，先生。

K: Climbing mountains, climbing trees, chasing monkeys.
克：爬山，爬树，追猴子。

What do you really love?
你真正喜爱的是什么？

S: Collecting stamps. K: No, just a minute.
学：集邮。克：不，等一下。

This is too complex a subject for little boys.
这对小男孩们实在是太困难了。

Meditation means to be free of measurement.
冥想是指没有衡量。

This is too difficult for you all.
这对你们所有人都太难了。

S: Sir, concentration is something which you force and do something...
学：先生，专注是指你强迫自己去做某件事...

...and meditation might be where you don't force anything.
...而冥想可能是你不强迫去做任何事情。

K: That's right. Meditation can only take place when there is no effort...
克：正是那样。冥想只有在毫不费力的情况下才会发生...

...when there is no contradiction.
...而那里也没有矛盾。

You know contradiction? Saying one thing, doing another thing. Right?
你们了解矛盾吗？说一套，做一套。对吗？

S: Sir, suppose you like reading, then you are really concentrating on it...
学：先生，假设你喜欢阅读，那么你就真正地专注于它了...

...isn't that meditation, where you don't know you are concentrating?
...当你自己都不知道自己在专注的时候，难道那不就是冥想吗？

K: No, no. You are then trying to understand what the book is saying.
克：不，不。你刚才是在试图理解书本上说的东西。

S: You don't know you are concentrating.
学：你不知道你正很专注。

Like he said you don't know you are concentrating...
就像他说的，你不知道你正在专注于某件事...

...but you are concentrating.
...但是你确实很专心。

K: That is when you like something...
克：那是指当你喜欢做某件事的时候...

...when you like to read a good detective story...
...当你喜欢阅读一本好的侦探小说时...

...you enjoy it, don't you?
...你享受阅读，不是吗？

This is too difficult for you.
这对你们来说太难了。

Don't bother about meditation and concentration.
不要费工夫在冥想和专注的问题上了。

It is much too difficult.
那太难了。

Right? S: Yes.
是不是？学：是的。

K: A little bit.
克：有点太难了。

Now, I would like to talk about something else.
那么，我想来讨论点别的事情。

May I? S: Yes, sir.
可以吗？学：是的，先生。

K: I have asked you what you would like to talk about...
克：我已经问过你们想要讨论些什么...

...and then after asking you all these questions...
...那么在问过所有这些问题之后...

...I would like to talk to you about something else. May I?
...我想要和你们说些其他的事情。可以吗？

S: Yes, sir. K: All of you?
学：可以，先生。克：你们都愿意吗？

S: Yes, sir. K: 'Yes, sir'.
学：愿意，先生。克：“愿意，先生”。

Human beings, like you, have capacity...
人类，像你们所有人一样，都拥有能力...

...have some kind of hidden talent.
...拥有某种隐藏着的天赋。

Talent - you understand? - that is to paint, to play the violin...
天赋--你们理解吗？--就像绘画，拉小提琴...

...to play the flute, or to be a very good human being.
...吹笛子，或者成为一个非常好的人。

Human beings have hidden talents.
人类都拥有隐藏着的天赋。

Right?
对不对？

And your society, your parents...
然而你们的社会，你们的父母...

...everybody says, 'Become a business man...
...每个人都说，“你要成为一个商人...

...or become a doctor, or become an engineer...
...或者成为一名医生，再或者成为一名工程师...

...or become Indian Administrative person, the Service'. Right?
...或者成为印度政府的行政人员，或者去军队服役”。对不对？

So your brain, you understand, what is inside the skull...
所以你的头脑，你明白吗，你脑壳里的那个头脑...

...is conditioned by your parents, or by the society in which you live.
...被你的父母所局限，或者被你所生活的这个社会所局限。

You understand? S: Yes, sir.
你明白吗？学：是的，先生。

K: So, your own talent is destroyed by this pressure.
克：所以，你自己的天赋被这种压力摧毁了。

You might be a great painter.
你本可以是个伟大的画家。

Right? Or a great singer...
对不对？或者是个了不起的歌手...

...or a marvellous botanist, horticulturist. Right?
...或者一位杰出的植物学家，园艺家。对不对？

But your parents, your society, say, 'No, that is not good enough...
但是你的父母，你所处的社会，说，“不，那还不够好...

...you must become really a businessman...
...你真的必须成为一名商人...

...or a good doctor, or IAS'.
...或者一个好的医生，或者去航空科学院工作”。

So you destroy your own talent.
所以你摧毁了你自己的天赋。

And what is important is to have your own talent...
然而重要的是你拥有自己的天赋...

...then you are happy with it.
...那么你就会觉得很快乐。

You understand what I am saying?
你们理解我所说的吗？

S: Sir... K: Listen to what I am saying.
学：先生...克：请听我正在说的话。

I am talking now.
我现在正在说。

And you are listening to me.
而且你在听我说。

That is one thing - human beings...
这是一件事--人类...

...have essentially, hidden, a certain talent.
...原本拥有隐藏的，某种天赋。

Right?
对不对？

Not always to become a businessman, or a captain in the army, or a flyer.
不是全部都要去变成商人，或者军队里的统帅，或者飞行员。

So you have to discover your own talent, and stick to that talent...
所以你必须要发现你自己的天赋，并且为你的天赋而坚持...

...whether you become poor, rich, successful.
...不去管你是否会变穷，变富，或者是否成功。

S: Sir, but it you want to be a businessman...
学：先生，但是你想要变成一个商人...

...and by the side of it you can also sing, or paint, or whatever.
...但是在那同时，你可以唱歌，绘画，或者做任何其他的事情。

K: Clever boys - you have really trained these boys beautifully!
克：聪明的孩子们--你们真是把这些孩子们训练得不错！

They say you can become a businessman, or a General...
他们说你可以成为一个商人，或者将军...

...or an army captain, and also paint.
...或者一名军中的将领，但是同时也绘画。

Do you follow how his brain is working?
你们看到他的头脑是如何运作的吗？

You are quite right, sir.
你说的非常对，先生。

Then you will do neither thing properly, fully, happily.
那样的话。两件事情你都无法恰当地，全然地，快乐地去做。

S: Why, sir?
学：为什么，先生？

K: Because you are torn between the two.
克：因为你在两者之间挣扎。

S: No. K: I know this, I know this.
学：不。克：我知道，我知道。

You understand? S: Yes,sir.
你明白吗？学：是的，先生。

K: Wait a minute, I am talking for a while.
克：等一下，我还要再说一会儿。

So, it is very difficult also to discover your own talent.
所以，要发现你自己的天赋也是一件很困难的事情。

And it might not lead you to success.
可能它也无法让你成功。

It doesn't matter then. You understand?
然而那并不重要。你明白吗？

Then you don't mind not having much money...
你并不介意没有很多的钱...

...because you have got something in yourself.
...因为你内在有这样的天赋。

Right? S: Yes, sir.
对不对？学：是的，先生。

K: So find out, all of you, find out...
克：那么请找出它，你们所有的人，去发现...

...your own talent, something of your own...
...你自己的天赋，你自己所拥有的...

...not imposed by education, by your parents, by society...
...不是教育强加给你的，不是父母告诉你的，社会告诉你的..

...but find out something that you have for yourself.
...而是亲自去找出你所拥有的。

S: But if our parents force us to do something.
学：但是如果父母强迫我们做某件事那该怎么办。

K: I know your parents force you to become an engineer...
克：我知道你的父母强迫你变成一名工程师...

...force you to become something or other.
...强迫你成为这样或那样。

But while you are young play the game and say, 'Yes, I accept that'...
但是当你年纪还小，你可以和他们玩个把戏说，“好，我接受”...

...and find out for yourself.
...然后再亲自去发现自己的天赋。

S: But supposing something happens to you.
学：但是假设你遇到某件事。

K: I know, just listen to what I am saying.
克：我知道，请好好听我正在讲的话。

Because I have got something more to say.
因为我还有其他一些要讲的。

Right? S: Yes.
好吗？学：好的。

K: You don't mind? S: No, sir.
克：你不介意？学：不介意，先生。

K: And also you are going to enter into a world...
克：并且你也要进入这个世界...

...when you leave this marvellous valley...
...当你离开这个美丽的山谷的时候...

...with all the rocks, and the shadows...
...离开这里所有的岩石，还有树荫...

...and the trees, and the flowers, and the really peaceful campus...
...还有树木，鲜花，以及这非常宁静的校园...

...you are going to face a world that is terrible. Right?
...你将要去面对一个可怕的世界。对吗？

There is violence, kidnapping...
那里有暴力，绑架...

...shooting, bribing.
...枪杀，贿赂。

The world is becoming more and more dangerous.
世界已经变得越来越危险。

Right?
对吗？

And the world is becoming corrupt...
并且世界都在变得腐败堕落...

...all over the world, not only in India...
...全世界都一样，不仅仅是印度...

...where it is quite blatant.
...在这里这点已经相当露骨了。

You know what the word 'blatant' means? Quite open.
你们知道这个词“露骨”是什么意思吗？非常公开的。

They say, 'Give me something before I will do something else'.
他们说，“想让我做某件事，你必须要给我些什么”。

There is corruption. Right?
到处是腐败堕落。对吗？

All over the world, not only here in this country...
全世界都是这样，不仅仅是在这个国家...

...but in America, in France...
...而且在美国，法国...

...in England - political corruption...
...英国--政治上的腐败堕落...

...social corruption, black market and so on.
...社会上的腐败堕落，黑市等等。

There is tremendous corruption all over the world.
全世界都处在极大的腐败堕落当中。

Right?
对不对？

We say that corruption is bribing, passing money under the table...
我们说贿赂是腐败堕落，偷偷地塞钱给别人...

...paying cash without giving an account.
...付现金却不留账目。

All that is called corruption. Right?
所有的那些都是腐败堕落。对吗？

But that is only a symptom.
但那只是一个症状。

Do you know what 'symptom' means?
你们知道“症状”是什么意思吗？

S: Yes, sir, signs.
学：是的，先生，征兆。

K: Do you know what 'symptom' is?
克：你们知道“症状”是什么意思吗？

Symptom is... I have eaten something, very heavy food...
症状就是...我吃了一些食物，非常的油腻...

...and I have got tummy ache.
...然后我的肚子疼起来。

The tummy ache is the symptom.
肚子疼就是症状。

But the cause is my eating the wrong food.
但是起因是我吃错了食物。

Got it? S: Yes, sir.
明白吗？学：是的，先生。

K: So, I want to go into the cause of corruption.
克：所以，我想要深入探索腐败堕落的起因。

We say corruption - I hope you are all listening...
我们说腐败堕落--我希望你们都在听...

...because you are all going to face the world...
...因为你们都要去面对这个世界...

...when you leave Rishi Valley.
...在你们离开瑞希山谷之后。

S: Sir, supposing if you don't take the money he is giving, sir...
学：先生，假设如果你不接受他们给你的那些钱，先生...

...he might do something worse. If you take the money...
...他可能会做些更糟糕的事情。如果你接受了那些钱...

K: If I give you money under the table you become corrupt.
克：如果我偷偷地塞钱给你，你就变得堕落了。

S: Yes, sir.
学：是的，先生。

K: And then you also become corrupt because you are accepting money.
克：同时你也因为接受了那些钱而变得堕落了。

Right? S: Yes, sir.
对吗？学：是的，先生。

But if I don't take the money he might do something.
但是如果我不接受那些钱，他可能会做些其他的事情。

K: I know, I know. If you don't take it he will hurt you.
克：我知道，我知道。如果你不接受他可能会伤害你。

Just listen, understand, what is the cause of corruption.
好好听，去理解，腐败堕落的起因是什么？

You understand?
你明白吗？

Corruption isn't merely passing money...
腐败堕落并非仅仅是塞钱...

...under the table, bribing, black market...
...偷偷地塞钱，贿赂，黑市...

...but the cause is something entirely different.
...而这些的起因是完全不同的东西。

Right?
对不对？

I am going to go into that if you are interested.
如果你们感兴趣，我们将要深入探索它。

Corruption begins with self-interest.
腐败堕落来自于自私自利。

Do you understand this? S: Yes, sir.
你们明白这一点吗？学：是的，先生。

K: If I am interested in myself, in what I want...
克：如果我对自己感兴趣，对我想要什么感兴趣...

...what I must be, if I am greedy...
...对我一定要变成什么感兴趣，如果我是贪婪的...

...envious, harsh, brutal, cruel, there is corruption.
...好嫉妒的，苛刻的，残忍的，冷酷的，那么就会有腐败堕落。

You understand?
你们明白吗？

Corruption begins in your heart, in your mind, not just giving money...
腐败从你的内心开始，从你的头脑出现，不仅仅是塞钱给人而已...

...that also is corruption...
...那当然也是腐败堕落...

...but the real cause of corruption is inside you.
...但是真正的起因是你内心的腐败堕落。

Unless you find that out and change that...
除非你发现到这一点然后改变它...

...you will be a corrupt human being.
...否则你将成为一个堕落的人类。

Do you understand what I am saying?
你明白我所说的吗？

Corruption is when you are angry...
腐败堕落就是，你愤怒...

...when you are jealous, when you hate people...
...你嫉妒别人，你仇恨人们...

...when you are lazy, when you say...
...你懒惰，你说...

...'This is right, and I feel this is right' and stick to it.
...“那是对的，我觉得那是对的”然后坚持己见。

You understand what I am saying?
你们明白我所说的吗？

S: Sir, it looks like everything comes under selfishness.
学：先生，看来所有的事情都可以归咎于自私。

K: Everything comes under selfishness. You are quite right.
克：所有的都归咎于自私。你说得很对。

Corruption begins there.
腐败堕落就起于那里。

You understand, old boy? S: Yes, sir.
你明白吗，孩子？学：是的，先生。

K: So don't be corrupt.
克：所以不要变得腐败堕落。

It doesn't matter if you die for it.
即使为此而献身也不要紧。

S: Sir... K: Wait, listen to me.
学：先生...克：等一下，听我说。

You understand? We are all so frightened.
你明白吗？我们都是如此的恐惧。

You say, 'How will I live? What will I do if I am not corrupt...
你说，“我如何生存？如果我不腐败我要怎么办...

...when all the people around me are corrupt?'
...当我身边的所有人都是腐败堕落的？”

You understand what I mean by corruption...
你明白我所指的腐败堕落吗...

...not just the outward sign but the deep inward sense of corruption...
...不仅仅是外在的表征，也包括内在深层的腐败堕落感...

...that human beings live with - selfish, thinking about themselves...
...我们人类与之共存的腐败堕落--自私，想着自己...

...wanting their success, envious - you understand?
...想要成功，嫉妒他人--你们明白吗？

So, corruption is inside, in your heart, in your brain.
所以，腐败堕落是内在的，在你的心里，你的头脑里。

So if you understand that very carefully...
所以如果你非常用心地理解了那一点...

...and you are really serious, not cynical...
...而且你是真正严肃的，而非愤世嫉俗的...

...most of those grown-up boys who are going to leave...
...大部分长大成人即将离开这里的男孩们都...

...have become cynical, they see what the world is, they say...
...已经变得愤世嫉俗，他们看到世界是什么样子的，并且说...

...'Well, I have got to accept it'. That is a form of cynicism.
...“好吧，我不得不接受世界的样子”。那就是愤世嫉俗的一种形式。

But if you understand very carefully from now that corruption is...
但是如果你从现在起非常用心地去理解，腐败堕落...

...not merely passing money under the table, bribing...
...并不仅仅是偷偷地塞钱，贿赂...

...bribing whether it is two rupees...
...无论是贿赂两个卢比...

...or ten million dollars, it is still bribing.
...还是一千万美金，那都是贿赂。

And being violent is part of what is called corruption, terror, all that.
并且暴力也是腐败的一部分，恐怖活动，所有的那些。

That is what is happening in the world.
那就是这个世界上正在发生的事情。

You are a human being growing up, don't be like them.
你们是正在成长的人类，不要变成像他们一样。

Don't become angry, don't be envious, don't always seek success.
不要变得愤怒，不要变得善妒，不要总是追逐成功。

S: Sir, how can we stop all that? How can we stop being envious?
学：先生，我们怎么能让那些停下来？我们怎么才能不再嫉妒？

K: If you want to be envious be envious and see what happens.
克：如果你想嫉妒，那么就嫉妒，看看会发生什么事情。

You understand?
你明白吗？

But if you don't want to be envious, don't be envious.
但是如果你不想嫉妒，就不要去嫉妒。

Don't say, how do I stop it?
不要说，我要怎么停止嫉妒。

If you see something dangerous, like a cobra, nobody tells you - you run.
如果你看到危险的事物，比如一只眼镜蛇，没有人告诉你该怎么办--你一定会跑开。

Right?
对不对？

So, corruption inside is most dangerous.
所以，内在的腐败堕落是最危险的。

Right? So don't be corrupt.
对不对？所以不要变得腐败堕落。

Begin there first, not out there.
首先从那里开始，不是变得腐败堕落然后再改正。

You understand? S: Yes, sir.
你们明白吗？学：是的，先生。

K: Will you do it? Don't promise.
克：你会那样去做吗？不要承诺。

Don't ever promise unless you are absolutely going to carry it out.
除非是你绝对会那样去做，否则永远不要承诺。

Right?
好吗？

But if you see how important it is in life...
但是如果你看到那在人生当中是多么的重要...

...because you are all growing up...
...因为你们都在长大...

...growing into this terrible world.
...长大并进入到这个可怕的世界当中。

It's insane world. You understand?
这是个疯狂的世界。你们明白吗？

There is no sanity in the political world, in the religious world.
在政治世界里，宗教世界里，是没有健全的心智存在的。

Right?
对吗？

In the economic world there is no sanity.
在经济世界里，是没有健全的心智的。

So, please, I am just pointing out to you, whether you are grown up...
所以，请你们，我只是在告诉你们，无论你是已经成年...

...or leaving this marvellous valley...
...或者即将离开这个美丽的山谷...

...or staying here for another two, four years...
...再或者要在这里再待两年，四年...

...don't be corrupt, inside...
...不要腐败堕落，在内心里...

...don't seek vanity, pride...
...不要追求虚荣，寻求荣耀...

...don't say, 'I am superior to somebody else'.
...不要说，“我比其他的人优越”。

You know, you learn a great deal when there is humility.
你知道，当你谦卑的时候，你会学到很多的东西。

You know the word 'humility'?
你们知道“谦卑”这个词吗？

You learn a great deal if you are really humble.
如果你是真正谦卑的，你会学到很多东西。

But if you are merely seeking success...
但是如果你只是想追求成功...

...money, money, money, power, position...
...金钱，金钱，金钱，权力，地位...

...status - you understand? - then you are beginning with corruption.
...身份--你们明白吗？--那么你就开始与腐败堕落为伍了。

You might be poor, be poor, who cares.
你可能会贫穷，那就做个贫穷的人，谁在乎呢？

That's why it is important for you...
那就是为什么对你来说，对你们所有人来说...

...for all of you, to find your own talent...
...重要的事情是，去发现自己的天赋...

...and stick to it even though it doesn't...
...并且持之以恒，即使这个天赋并不能...

...bring you success, fame, and all that...
...给你带来成功，名誉，以及那一切...

...which is all nonsense anyhow because we are all going to die.
...反正那都是些不值一提的东西，因为我们所有的人都要死去。

You understand, old boy?
你们明白吗，孩子？

While you live, live, not with all the rubbish that is going on.
当你活着的时候，好好生活，不要与所有那些发生着的垃圾观念为伍。

S: Sir, why don't people realise this?
学：先生，为什么人们意识不到这一点？

K: Because they don't think, they don't feel...
克：因为他们不思考，他们不去感受...

...they are thinking about themselves all the time, their job...
...他们一直都在考虑他们自己，他们的事业...

...their administration, their work.
...考虑他们经营的事情，考虑他们的工作。

You understand? They are not interested in this. But if you are...
你明白吗？他们对此不感兴趣。但是如果你感兴趣...

S: How do you stop being selfish?
学：那么你如何能停止自私？

K: How do you stop being selfish? Don't be selfish.
克：你如何能停止自私？那就不要自私。

Just listen.
听我说。

Don't ever ask anybody, 'How?'
永远不要问任何人，“如何去做？”

You understand?
你明白吗？

Then they will tell you how, then you are lost.
接着他们会告诉你如何去做，然后你就迷失了。

That is the biggest corruption.
那是最严重的堕落。

S: You mean we must find out for ourselves.
学：你是说我们必须自己来找到答案。

K: Find out, enquire, use your brain, doubt, question.
克：找出答案，质询，使用自己的头脑，怀疑，提出问题。

Don't merely accept.
不要仅仅去接受别人的说法。

I am your teacher, suppose I am your teacher.
我是你们的老师，假设我是你们的老师。

I want to see that you have a very good brain.
我要确保你有个非常好的头脑。

Right?
对吗？

To have a good brain means not to have conflict...
拥有一个好的头脑意味着不会有冲突...

...in yourself or with somebody else.
...无论是你的内在还是与其他的人。

I know all this is too much.
我知道我所说的这些对你们来说太难理解了。

S: I wanted to ask you, sir - supposing you are not mistaken...
学：我刚才想问您，先生--假如你没错的话...

...and someone does something to you?
...某个人对你做了些不好的事情怎么办？

K: If someone does something harm to you...
克：如果有人做一些伤害你的事情...

...what will you do? Hit him back?
...你要怎么做？反戈一击吗？

S: It depends on the depth of what he has done.
学：那要看他伤害我的程度。

K: Yes, you have said it. By Jove, you are quite...
克：是，你已经说出来了。天哪，你是多么...

If he hurts you deeply what will you do?
如果他伤害你很深你会怎么做？

Have you asked what it means to be hurt?
你有没有问过被伤害是什么意思？

Go on. Think with me. Think with me!
请继续。和我一起思考。和我一起思考！

S: Sir, is it corruption again to be hurt?
学：先生，是否被伤害也是一种堕落呢？

K: Just listen.
克：请听我说。

Suppose I hurt you very deeply; suppose - I don't want to hurt you...
假设我把你伤得很深；假设--我并不想伤害你...

...suppose I want to hurt you very deeply.
...假设我想要深深地伤害你。

Now, you say, 'I am hurt'.
那么，你说，“我受到了伤害”。

Now, what do you mean by that?
那么，你所说的话是什么意思呢？

Use your brain. Don't repeat.
动动脑子。不要重复别人的话。

S: Physically? K: Yes, not only physically...
学：伤害我的身体吗？克：是的，不仅仅是身体上...

...but inside, he hurts you.
...而且也是内心，他伤害了你。

He calls you a fool. S: Sir, I think...
他叫你傻瓜。学：先生，我认为...

K: Just listen carefully. All of you listen carefully.
克：请用心地听我说。你们所有的人都用心地听。

He calls you a fool, and you get hurt.
他叫你傻瓜，然后你受伤了。

Right? Have you found out what gets hurt?
对吗？你找出是什么受伤了吗？

Careful, careful!
用心，用心！

S: If you think you aren't a fool and then someone comes along...
学：如果你认为你不是傻瓜，接着某个人过来...

K: Look, somebody calls you a fool and somebody calls you a great man...
克：听我说，某人叫你傻瓜，而另一个人则说你是伟大的人...

...they are both the same, aren't they?
...他们是一样的，难道不是吗？

Do you understand what I am saying?
你们明白我所说的吗？

Somebody calls me a fool, an idiot, and I get hurt - suppose.
有个人叫我傻瓜，白痴，我就感到受伤--假设。

What gets hurt?
是什么被伤害了？

Careful, think it out, don't reply quickly, think it out.
用心点，想想清楚，不要很快地回答，想想清楚。

K: Think it out. No, I won't listen.
克：想想清楚。不，我不听。

I said think it out, carefully think it out.
我说了想明白它，用心地想想清楚。

I am asking you, I call you an idiot - I am not saying that...
我正在问你，我叫你白痴--我不是真正说你是白痴...

...and you get hurt.
...然后你受到了伤害。

What do you mean, you getting hurt?
你究竟是什么意思，你受到了伤害？

What is you? S: Your ego.
你是什么？学：你的自我。

K: Think it out, old girl, think it out.
克：想想清楚，孩子，想想清楚。

S: It is me, my ego. K: What are you?
学：是我，我的自我受伤了。克：你是什么？

S: I am one...
学：我是一个...

K: Come over here, old boy.
克：到这里来，孩子。

Sit in here.
坐在这里。

Come on, don't waste time.
来吧，不要浪费时间。

I know you, so go on.
我认识你，所以请继续说。

S: Sir, what is hurt is me, what I have build of myself.
学：先生，受伤的是我，那些构成我自己的东西。

K: That's it. What you have built of yourself, which means what?
克：正是那样。那些构成你自己的东西，那又意味着什么？

S: Sir, what has been achieved, what I have achieved, what I have done.
学：先生，那些已经实现的东西，我已经取得的东西，我所做过的一切。

K: What you have done, what you have achieved.
克：你所做过的事情，你所成就的东西。

Why are you all so accustomed to achievement?
为什么你们所有的人都对成就如此的习以为常？

You all talk about achievement.
你们都谈论成就。

Like your father, your mother, your grandmothers, they have achieved.
就像你的父亲，母亲，祖母们，他们有所成就。

Right? They have become successful, you mean.
对吗？你是说，他们都是成功的人。

S: No, sir, what they have done to themselves.
学：不，先生，他们对自己所做的事情。

K: Yes.
克：是的。

Say, for instance, I have been all over some of the world. Right?
比如说，我去过世界上的一些地方。对吗？

I have talked to various thousands of people...
我已经对数以千计的各式各样的人们讲演过...

I have been to the United Nations, all kinds of things I have done.
我去过联合国，我做过各种各样的事情。

Right? Which means I have built an image, a picture about myself.
对吗？那意味着我建立了一个意象，关于我自己的一个形象。

Right? Picture about myself.
对吗？关于我自己的一个形象。

You come along and say, 'You are an idiot' - and I get hurt - suppose.
你过来对我说，“你是个白痴”--然后我觉得受伤了--假设是这样。

What gets hurt?
是什么受伤了？

S: My feelings. K: My feelings, my image.
学：我的感觉。克：我的感觉，我的形象。

S: The image of yourself. K: Yes, that's right.
学：你自己的形象。克：是的，正是那样。

The image of myself because I have travelled, I am a great man...
这个由于我周游世界，我是个了不起的人...

...I have written books, I have seen Mrs Gandhi.
...我著书立说，我见过甘地夫人而建立起来的形象。

You follow?
你们明白吗？

I have built an image about myself; that image gets hurt.
我建立了一个我自己的形象；那个形象受到了伤害。

Now, the next step, listen carefully.
那么，下一步，请用心地听。

Can I live without image, any image?
我可以生活而不带有形象吗，什么形象都没有？

S: Can you, sir? K: Can I? Yes.
学：你可以吗，先生？克：我可以做到吗？可以。

I wouldn't otherwise talk about it.
如果我没有做到，我就不会谈论它。

That is dishonesty to talk about something...
如果我自己没有那样去生活，却谈论这样的事情...

...that you yourself are not living. S: Sir, but you want to go...
...那就是不诚实。学：先生，但是你想要去...

K: Wait, wait, listen to what I am saying, old boy.
克：等一下，等一下，听我说，孩子。

So, have you an image at this age?
所以，你们这个年龄已经有一个形象了吗？

Of course, all of you have images.
当然，你们所有的人都有形象。

And those images get hurt.
并且那些形象会受伤。

And all through life you will get hurt...
而且你整个人生当中都会受伤...

...as long as you have those images.
...只要你有那些形象。

S: Should you forget them, sir? K: Leave them, don't have them.
学：你应该把它们忘掉吗，先生？克：离开那些形象，不要它们。

Somebody - many people have flattered me...
有人--很多人曾经恭维我...

...and many people have insulted me.
...还有很多人侮辱过我。

I have no image, I can't get hurt, it doesn't matter.
我没有那个形象，所以我不会受伤，那一点关系都没有。

You understand? S: Yes, sir.
你们明白吗？学：是的，先生。

K: Be like that. That is where corruption begins.
克：像那样做。腐败堕落就是从那里开始的。

S: Sir, but how do you get rid of your images?
学：先生，但是要如何去除那些形象呢？

K: How do you get rid of images?
克：你如何去除那些形象？

If you see they are dangerous you will get rid of them immediately.
如果你认识到它们是危险的，你就会立即去除它们。

S: Sir, if you get rid of images, what is left of you?
学：先生，如果你去除那些形象，还有什么留下来呢？

K: Nothing! S: Then what are you?
克：什么都不剩！学：那么你是什么呢？

K: Wait! Listen to what I said.
克：等一下！请听我所说的话。

Be nothing and then you live.
当你什么也不是那么你就开始生活了。

You will understand later.
你以后会明白的。

S: Sir, those might have images of you but we shouldn't have images.
学：先生，别人可能存有对你的印象，但是我们不应该有种种形象。

K: Yes. Let the others have images, don't you have them.
克：是的。让他们去拥有印象，但你不要有形象。

S: Sir, sometimes we don't have images...
学：先生，有时候我们没有形象...

K: Not 'sometimes'.
克：不是“有时候”。

Are you talking seriously, or theoretically?
你是在认真地讨论还是在理论上讨论？

S: No, suppose a person can... K: Why do you suppose?
学：不，假设一个人能够...克：你为什么要假设？

S: If a person doesn't have an image isn't he likely to feel insecure?
学：如果一个人没有任何形象，难道他不会觉得不安全吗？

K: Be insecure!
克：那就不安全吧！

Know you are insecure.
了解你是不安全的。

Then find out what is security.
然后弄明白什么才是安全。

But if you are always seeking security...
但是如果你总是在追求安全...

...you don't know whether you are insecure.
...你就不知道你是否是不安全的了。

But first find out for yourself if you are insecure, what it means...
但是首先自己去找出你是否是不安全的，安全在生理上...

...physically, inwardly, and so on.
...在你的内在意味着什么，如此等等。

S: Whether you have an image or not you are insecure.
学：无论你有一个形象或没有你都是不安全的。

K: Whether you have an image or not, you are insecure.
克：无论你有一个形象或者没有，你都是不安全的。

I am asking you, have you found out if you are insecure...
我在问你，你已经弄明白自己是否不安全了吗...

...or are you just talking?
...或者你只是在讨论这个问题而已？

S: Sir, I feel insecure about some things.
学：先生，对一些事情，我觉得没有安全感。

K: Wait. Find out what it means, what it means to be insecure.
克：等一下。弄明白那是什么意思，不安全是什么意思。

Either you are insecure physically - right? - or economically...
或者你身体上是不安全的--对吗？--或者经济上不安全...

...or insecure in public opinion - right?..
...或者对大众的意见没有安全感--对吗？...

...or insecure in money matters...
...或者对有关金钱的事情觉得不安全...

...or insecure in your relationships. Find out.
...或者在你的各种关系里没有安全感。弄明白。

S: And then what, sir?
学：接下来怎么样呢，先生？

K: When you learn where there is insecurity then you are secure.
克：当你了解根本没有安全可言的时候，你就安全了。

Get that, old boy.
明白这一点，孩子。

S: Sir, do you have an image? K: Listen to what I said.
学：先生，你有某个形象吗？克：听我所说的话。

You get it?
你明白了吗？

When you find out for yourself...
当你自己弄明白什么是不安全...

...what is insecure, where you are insecure...
...在什么地方你是不安全的...

...with your family, with your father, with your mother...
...在家庭中，和你的父亲在一起时，和你的母亲在一起时...

...with your wife or husband, with god...
...和你的妻子或者丈夫在一起时，和上帝，都是没有安全感的...

You understand? Find out, learn about it.
你明白吗？弄明白它，从中学习。

The moment you know and have learnt a great deal about insecurity...
在你了解了不安全，从中学到很多的那一刻...

...then you are out of it, then you are secure.
...你就脱离它了，那时你就安全了。

S: Sir, if you learn a great deal about insecurity...
学：先生，如果你从不安全中学到很多...

...you don't know the full insecurity.
...你就了解不到不安全感的全部了。

K: Oh, yes, you will.
克：哦，你了解，你会了解的。

Sir, if you begin rightly - do you understand?..
先生，如果你以恰当的方式开始--你明白吗？...

...then what is right is at the beginning.
...那么在最初就要是正确的。

This is too difficult.
这太难了。

S: Sir, are you saying, live with insecurity to find out what it is?
先生，您是说，与不安全共处以便弄明白它是什么吗？

K: You are insecure, not live with insecurity.
克：你是不安全的，而不是与不安全共处。

You just now said, 'I am insecure'.
你刚才说，“我是不安全的”。

Live with it, find out.
与那个共处，弄明白。

Use your brain to find out.
用你的头脑去弄明白。

Don't become mechanical.
不要变得机械化。

S: Sir, to get rid of insecurity we have to get rid of fear first, no?
学：先生，想要去除不安全，我们首先要去除恐惧，不是吗？

K: Fear. Right?
克：恐惧。是吗？

Now, I am going to show you, you have to learn, not from me, learn.
那么，我要来向你展示，你必须要学习，不是从我这里学，而是学习。

What is fear?
什么是恐惧？

S: Fear is the thing which we think about.
学：恐惧是我们想到的那件事。

S: Something you don't know about.
学：是我们所不了解的事物。

K: Wait, sir. You don't listen to somebody else first...
克：等一下，先生。你不会先倾听其他人...

...you are always ready with your own questions.
...你总是准备好了自己要问的问题。

He said - do you know what he said?
他说--你知道他说了什么吗？

You don't because you didn't listen...
你不知道因为你没有听...

...because your own question was more important; that is selfishness.
...因为你自己的问题更重要；那就是自私。

Right?
对吗？

He said, 'Fear, how is one to be free of fear?' Right?
他说，“恐惧，人们如何能没有恐惧？”对吗？

You meant that, didn't you?
你是那个意思，是吗？

Right? So, first listen to that question.
对吗？所以，首先来听听那个问题。

He said, 'What is fear, how is one to be free of it?'
他说，“什么是恐惧，如何能不恐惧？”

Now, do you know you are afraid?
那么，你知道你害怕吗？

S: Yes, sir. K: Yes, sir! Why?
学：是的，先生。克：是的，先生！为什么？

S: I think it is because I think of something which makes me feel afraid.
学：我想那是因为我想到了一些让我感到害怕的事情。

K: Now, just a minute you have said something tremendous.
克：现在，等一下，你说出了一件非同寻常的事情。

I don't know if you are aware of it.
我不知道你是否意识到了这一点。

You have said something very true.
你说了一些非常真实的东西。

S: Then if we don't think of something...
学：那么如果我们什么也不想...

K: That's it.
克：正是那样。

You have learnt the first thing, that thinking brings fear.
你已经学到了第一件事，那就是思想会带来恐惧。

Right? Right? S: Yes, sir.
对吗？是吗？学：是的，先生。

K: So, you have to find out what is thinking, not how to stop fear.
克：所以，你必须要弄明白什么是思想，而不是如何停止恐惧。

You understand?
你明白吗？

You just now said very carefully...
你刚才非常认真地说道...

...that thinking brings fear, which is true.
...思想带来恐惧，那是真实的。

I might die tomorrow and I am frightened.
我明天可能会死去，我非常害怕。

I might lose my job, I am frightened. Right?
我可能会失去我的工作，我很害怕。对吗？

So thinking brings fear.
所以是思想带来了恐惧。

Then what is thinking? Now go step by step to find out.
那么什么是思想呢？现在一步一步的来弄明白。

What is thinking?
什么是思想？

S: Sir, is it that to get rid of fear we have to get rid of thinking?
学：先生，是否是说为了去除恐惧我们必须去除思想？

K: No. I said never get rid of anything because it will come back.
克：不。我说过永远不要去除任何东西，因为他们会卷土重来。

S: So you see that fear is dangerous...
学：所以你知道恐惧是危险的...

K: Yes. No, first listen carefully.
克：是的。不，首先用心听我说。

I said to you, fear, he said, fear exists, comes...
我对你说，恐惧，他说了，恐惧存在，出现...

...when you think about something. Right?
...当你在思考某件事的时候。对吗？

Fear - I might die, fear - I might lose my job, fear of my father...
恐惧--我可能会死去，恐惧--我可能会失去工作，害怕我的父亲...

...fear of my teachers. Right?
...害怕我的老师们。对不对？

So as long as you are thinking about the future - right? - there is fear.
所以，只要你去思考未来--对吗？--就会有恐惧。

Right? Now you have to find out what is thinking.
对不对？现在你必须来弄明白什么是思想。

S: It might be selfishness. K: Yes, wait, wait.
学：那可能是自私。克：是的，等一下，等一下。

I am asking you something, first listen, old boy.
我在问你，首先听我说，孩子。

I am not trying to stop you. What is thinking?
我不是要打断你。什么是思想？

Carefully. Use your brain.
用心地想一下。好好动动脑子。

S: What the brain does?
学：是头脑做的事情吗？

K: No, use your brain to find out what is thinking.
克：不，用你的头脑去弄清楚什么是思想。

S: Imagination, sir. K: Imagination, go on.
学：想象力，先生。克：想象力，继续。

S: Sir, what you have seen you record and you think about it.
学：先生，你看到一些事物然后记录它们，然后又思考它们。

K: That is good, you are beginning.
克：非常好，你已经开始了。

You are recording, aren't you? That is - Oh, lord!
你在记录，不是吗？那是--哦，天哪！

I'll show you.
我来告诉你。

Our brain, what is inside the skull, is recording.
我们的头脑，脑壳里面的头脑，在记录。

You are recording mathematics.
你们在记录数学。

You are recording geography, history, you are recording.
你们在记录地理，历史，你们在记录。

A tape is recording. This is recording, down there.
一个磁带在记录。这就是记录，发生在那里。

You understand?
你明白吗？

I am talking, electrically it is connected to that machine...
我是说，那个录音机接上了电源...

...and that is recording on the tape.
...于是那就被记录在了磁带上。

Our brain acts exactly like that.
我们的头脑以完全一样的方式运作。

It is recording. Right?
它是在记录着。对不对？

Mathematics, history, geography, your father...
数学，历史，地理，你的父亲...

...it has recorded your father.
...它也录制了你的父亲。

Right? Now, wait a minute.
对吗？现在，等一下。

What do you mean by recording? Think it out, use your brain.
你说记录是什么意思？弄明白，动动脑筋。

S: It recalls something back again.
学：它从那些记录中回忆事情。

K: What do you mean recording? S: Absorbs.
克：你说记录是什么意思？学：吸收。

K: Isn't it necessary to record? S: Yes.
克：难道记录不是必须的吗？学：是的，

K: Why?
克：为什么？

S: Sir, to link the past with the future.
学：先生，把过去和未来连接起来。

K: No, isn't it necessary to record?
克：不，记录是必须的吗？

I hope the older boys are paying attention to all this...
我希望年龄大一些的男孩子们也在注意听我说的所有这些...

...because it is their life.
...因为这就是他们的生活。

So, recording is necessary when you write a letter, when you drive a car.
所以，当你写一封信的时候，驾驶车辆的时候，记录是必须的。

Right? When you have to pass an exam - unfortunately...
对不对？当你不得不通过考试的时候--这是很不幸的...

...when you record that you have a father in some place, and a mother.
...当你记录你在某处有个父亲，和一个母亲。

All that is recording, that is necessary.
那些都是记录，那是必须的。

Now, there is also another recording.
那么，还有另外一种记录。

I get hurt - you get it? S: Yes, sir.
我受伤了--你们明白吗？学：是的，先生。

K: There are two kinds of recording - the recording of driving a car...
克：有两种记录--记录如何开车...

...writing a letter, becoming IAS, becoming an engineer.
...如何写一封信，如何成为航空学院的工作人员，如何成为一个工程师。

Listen carefully, old boy, you are following?
请用心地听，孩子，你们跟上了吗？

And there is also another recording - me first, I am selfish...
还有另外一种记录--我是第一位的，我是自私的...

...I want this, I want success.
...我想要这个，我想成功。

Right?
对不对？

So, these two are recording all the time.
所以，这两种都在不停地记录。

Which is recording is memory, isn't it?
那些记录就是记忆，不是吗？

Memory of your father, memory of your mathematics.
对你父亲的记忆，对你的数学知识的记忆。

Right? So recording means memory, which is repeating.
对吗？所以记录就是记忆，也就是重复。

Do you see this?
你们明白这一点吗？

When you learn mathematics you are recording, you are repeating...
当你在学习数学的时候你是在记录，重复...

...memorising like that tape.
...就像磁带一样地记忆。

Right? So, you become mechanical.
对不对？所以，你变得机械化。

Like that tape is mechanical, it repeats, repeats, repeats...
就像那个机械化的磁带，它重复，重复，再重复...

...I am a Brahmin, I am a Brahmin...
...我是个婆罗门，我是个婆罗门...

...I am a Hindu, I am a Hindu...
...我是个印度教教徒，我是个印度教教徒...

...I am against Communist, Communist. Right?
...我反对共产主义者，共产主义者。对吗？

And so on. Our brains then become conditioned, limited, small.
如此等等。于是我们的头脑变得局限，狭隘，琐细。

Right? So thinking is part of memory.
对不对？所以思想是记忆的一部分。

You can't have memory if you haven't met your father...
你如果没有遇见你的父亲，就不可能有关于他的记忆...

...if you haven't seen your father, your mother.
...如果你从来没有见过你的父亲，母亲。

So, you have seen the father and your mother...
所以，你见过你的父亲，母亲...

...and that is stored in the brain as memory, and also that is knowledge...
...并且那些存储在头脑的记忆里，那些也是知识...

...and knowledge is based on experience - of course.
...知识是基于经验的--当然如此。

S: I am memorising. K: You are memory.
学：我在记忆。克：你就是记忆。

You understand?
你明白吗？

You are memory, the whole of your being is memory.
你就是记忆，你的整个存在就是记忆。

Memory that you are atman...
记忆里你是一个本我...

...memory you have got a soul, memory there is light inside you...
...记忆里你有灵魂，记忆里你的身体内有光...

...memory that there is god. It is all still memory.
...记忆里有上帝存在。那些仍然是一堆记忆。

You listen carefully, find out if it is true what the speaker is saying...
你们用心地听我说，弄明白讲话者正在说的是否真实...

...or it is a lie.
...还是一个谎言。

You understand? Find out.
你们明白吗？搞清楚它。

You are memory, without memory you are nothing.
你就是记忆，没有记忆你就什么也不是。

Memory of your name, memory of your family...
关于你名字的记忆，家庭的记忆...

...memory of mathematics, memory of going up that hill...
...关于数学的记忆，爬上那座小山的记忆...

...memory of your friend.
...你的朋友的记忆。

Right? So you are memory.
对不对？所以你就是记忆。

Memory is something dead, gone.
记忆是死的，已经逝去的。

S: Then how are we alive?
学：那我们怎么还活着？

K: Because the organ, you have food, you have air, water.
克：因为我们的器官，你吃饭，呼吸空气，喝水。

S: Then how can we...
学：那么我们怎么能够...

K: Find out, sir, that is the great point.
克：弄明白，先生，那就是最重要的一点。

You understand?
你明白吗？

Find out what is truth.
弄明白什么是真理。

Memory is not truth.
记忆并非真理。

S: Sir, what do you mean by truth?
学：先生，你所说的真理是指什么？

K: You can't describe it.
克：你无法描述它。

What is the flower? What is that flower?
花是什么？那朵花是什么？

Look at it.
看着它。

You never ask when you are looking at that flower, what is it...
当你在看那朵花的时候你从不会问，那花是什么...

...how did it come, the beauty of it.
...它是哪里来的，它的美是哪里来的。

Please learn something. Beauty is truth.
请学习一下。美就是真理。

You understand? Beauty is truth.
你明白吗？美就是真理。

The beauty of a good life - good life, not successful life...
美好的生命之美--好的人生，不是成功的人生...

Now, sirs, it is ten to eleven, will you sit quietly for a minute?
好了，先生们，现在差十分十一点了，你们能够静静地坐一分钟吗？

Sit quietly.
静静地坐着。

All right, sirs, thank you.
好的，先生们，谢谢你们。