标题: The real revolution 2/真正的革命2——一凡译 [打印本页] 作者: Sue 时间: 2010-8-30 16:11 标题: The real revolution 2/真正的革命2——一凡译
K: Look at a flower. 克：看着一朵花。
Have you ever looked at a flower? 你曾好好看过一朵花吗？
Or have you looked at it, given it a name, passed it by. 或者你是否看看它，给它一个名字，然后从旁经过。
Or you say, 'How beautiful. Let me smell it.' 要么你说，“多美呀。让我闻闻。”
All these are distractive actions which prevent you 所有这些都是分散注意力的行为，会妨碍你
from looking at that flower. 看那朵花。
Q: The speaker is Krishnamurti, one of the more challenging 旁白：讲话者是克里希那穆提，一个在我们的时代里
and creative men of our time. During the past four decades, 更具挑战性和创造力的人。在过去的四十年里，
the writings and talks of Krishnamurti have attracted 克里希那穆提的著作与演讲吸引了
an increasing audience in Europe, Asia and America. 来自欧洲、亚洲和美洲的越来越多的听众。
This series represents the first time that Krishnamurti 这部系列片呈现的是克里希那穆提第一次
has allowed his talks to be filmed. 允许他的谈话被拍摄录制。
In this 2nd of 8 programs, 这八集节目的第二集，
filmed principally in the Ojai Valley in California, 主要是在加州的欧亥山谷录制的，
Krishnamurti, in public talks and in informal conversation, 克里希那穆提，在公共谈话和非正式的交谈中，
speaks directly to the fundamental problems of today. 直陈了当今的根本问题。
In particular, he speaks of the problem of change, 特别是，他谈到了转变的问题，
and suggests that the real problem 并提出真正的问题
is not changing society but changing ourselves. 不是改变社会而是改变我们自己。
K: ...various forms of entertainment, 克：...各种形式的娱乐，
including churches, but it has no meaning. 包括各个教派，但它没有意义。
Is it possible to empty the mind of the known? 有可能清空在已知中的心智吗？
One must have asked this question, vaguely 人一定已经问过了这个问题，要么模糊地问过，
or with a purpose, because 要么带着一个目的，因为
one suffers, one has anxieties, whether it's possible to go beyond. 人在遭受苦难，人有焦虑，是否可能超越这些。
Or, one has vague hints of it. 或者，人对此有些模糊的暗示。
Now we are asking it, 现在我们在问这个问题，
we are asking it as a question which must be answered, 我们提出这个问题，是将其作为一个必须被回答的问题，
as a challenge which must be responded to. 作为一个必须被应对的挑战。
And this challenge is not an outward challenge 而这个挑战不是外来的挑战，
but a psychological, inward challenge. 而是一个心理上内在的挑战。
And we're going to find out whether it is possible 我们要发现是否可能
to empty the mind 将心智清空
of the known. 已知。
Look at that oak tree. 看着那棵橡树。
Actually look at it. 实实在在地看着它。
You are the observer and the oak is the observed. 你是观者而橡树是所观之物。
There is a space between you and the thing, which is the tree. 在你与此物，也即树，之间有空间。
In that interval of space is time 在那个空间的间隔中有着时间
- right? - - 对吗？-
the time that has to be covered to see that object. 为了看到此物而必须被跨越的时间。
In that interval of space there are all kinds of ideas, 在那空间的间隔中有各种各样的想法，
which actually prevents me from seeing the fact of the tree. 这些其实都妨碍了我看到树这个事实。
When you no longer name, 当你不再命名，
no longer thought functioning as knowledge about that tree, 不再有思想按照那棵树的有关知识运作着，
then, is there a space between you and the tree? 那么，你和树之间还有空间吗？
Then, if you go into it very deeply and observe all this, 然后，如果你深入其中并观察到所有这些，
then the observer is the observed, 那么，观者即所观之物了，
which is not the observer identifies himself with the tree. 而不是观者通过树来认可自己。
Observer is the image, which has been created. 观者是那被创造出的形象。
Q: The observer is the image that has been created. 问：观者是那被创造出的形象。
K: He is the censor, the entity that judges, compares, all that. 克：他是检查者，是进行判断、比较及那一切的实体。
Now, and then he looks at the object, 现在，然后他看着那物体，
either the tree or his own experience, 或者是树或者是他自己的经验，
or his relationship with somebody, another. 或者是他与某人、另一个人的关系。
So the observer is the image looking at the image 所以观者是看着另一形象的形象，
which he has created about the other. 他创造出的关于另一个人的形象。
So the relationship between the observer and the observed 所以观者与所观之物之间的关系
is not a relationship, it is two images looking at each other. 不是一种真正的关系，而是两个形象在看着彼此。
Now, when the observer has no image at all - 现在，当观者根本没有形象时 -
which is quite a tremendous problem, inquiry, 这是个相当巨大的问题和探询，
which is meditation, all that - 也即冥想，那一切 -
then the observer is the observed. 那么，观者即所观之物。
'What is' is the observer, “现在如何”即观者，
not the observer is looking at 'what is'. 而非观者在看“现在如何”。
Right? 对吗？
When the observer is the observed 当观者即所观之物时
- and the observer has always acted - 观者总是运作着
as though the observed is something different from himself, 好像所观之物是不同于他自己的某物，
then he could act - 然后他才能行动 -
but when he realises that the observer is the observed, 但是当他认识到观者即所观之物时，
all action ceases on his part, 他那边所有的行动都停止了，
and therefore all effort. 因而所有努力也都停止了。
And therefore there is no fear at all. 也因此根本没有了恐惧。
This requires a great deal of inward inquiry, 这需要内心强烈的质询，
inward observation, 和大量的内在观察，
step by step, without coming to any conclusion. 一步一步，而不达成任何结论。
Why do you choose? What is the necessity of choice? 为什么你要选择？选择有什么必要性？
If you see something very clearly, as we just now saw 如果你能很清晰地看到某物，像我们刚才看到的
what freedom implied - 自由意味着什么 -
when the mind is only free that it can see the total - 只有当心智自由了，它才能看到整体 -
when you see that clearly, there is no choice. 当你很清晰地看到那些，就没有选择。
It's only the confused mind that chooses. 只有困惑的心智才会去选择。
Awareness takes place only when there is no choice, 觉察只在没有选择时发生，
or when you are aware of all the conflicting choices, 或者当你意识到所有互相冲突的选择时，
conflicting desires, the strains - 冲突的欲望、紧张 -
just to observe all this movement of contradiction. 只是观察所有这些矛盾的运动。
And knowing that the observer is the observed, 并知道观者即所观之物，
and therefore 因此
in that process there is no choice at all, 在那个过程中根本没有选择，
but only watching 'what is'. 只有观察“现在如何”。
And that is entirely different from concentration. 而那完全不同于专注。
And that awareness brings a quality of attention 那觉察带来了一种关注的品质，
in which there is neither the observer nor the observed. 其中，既无观者也无所观之物。
When you really attend, completely attend, like now, 当你真正地关注时，全神贯注，像现在这样，
if you are really listening, 如果你真正在听，
there is neither the listener nor the speaker. 便既无听者，也无讲者。
And that state of attention 而那种注意的状态
brings about an extraordinary freshness, 会带来一种非同寻常的新鲜，
youth - not youth; 年轻- 不是年轻；
in America they use that word terribly - 在美国他们滥用了那个词 -
extraordinary sense of freshness, 非凡的新鲜感，
quality of newness to the mind. 心智崭新的品质。
And this emptying of the mind, 这种对心智的清空，
with all the experiences it has had, 及其已有的全部经验，
is meditation. 就是冥想。
If you observe very closely 如果你非常仔细地观察
- and that's one of the most arduous things, - 而那是最艰巨的事情之一，
and that doesn't need effort at all - 却根本不需要努力 -
just to sit of an afternoon, 只是有个下午坐在那，
whenever you have time and leisure, to look at it, 无论什么时候你有空闲和时间，看着它，
to look at a flower, to look at yourself, 看着一朵花，看着你自己，
to look at all the movement of your thought 看着你所有的思想活动
and your feelings and your reactions, 和你的感觉，你的反应，
just to observe without any choice, 只是观察而没有任何选择，
which is the beginning of self-knowing. 便是自我认识的开始。
And without self-knowing, man is caught everlastingly 没有自我认识，人将永远陷于
in confusion and misery. 困惑和痛苦。
Q: The thing that so strikes me 问：让我如此震惊的是
in the talks and in the conversations 在这些讲话、这些对谈中，
that I've listened to is the contemporaneity, 我所听到的是当代性、
the immediacy and directness of... 紧迫性和直接性...
K: ...our problems. 克：...我们的问题的。
Q: ...what you are talking about, and of our problems. 问：...你所谈到的，和关于我们的问题。
And at the same time, 同时，
so struck by the fact that most of the things 令我如此震惊的事实是，我们生活其中的
of the world in which we live 这个世界上的大多数事情
are designed in one sense simply 从某种意义上都被设计好了，结果只是
to distract us from an understanding of the problem. 让我们偏离了对问题的理解。
K: Yes, quite, quite. Sir, isn't it really, 克：是的，确实如此。先生，难道不正是这样吗，
we have developed 我们开发出了
a whole network of escapes, 一整个逃避网络，
and we're caught in those escapes, 并且，我们困在了这个逃避网络中，
and those escapes are preventing us 那些逃避在阻止我们
from understanding the problems. 理解问题。
The problems are there - 问题就在那儿 -
India, here or Russia, anywhere - 印度、这儿或俄国、任何一个地方 -
but I am not at all sure if religions, 但是我根本不确定是否宗教，
organised religions, 有组织的宗教、
dogmas, sects, have not taken us away 教理、宗派没有将我们带离
from the central fact of being able to face these problems 能够面对这些问题的核心事实
- not translate them, you follow what I mean? - - 不去诠释它们，你们明白我的意思了吗？-
not try to go beyond them, but actually face them 不试着去超越它们，而是如实面对它们，
and see if we can dissolve them. 看看我们能否消除它们。
And thought creates the past, the present and the future, 思想制造了过去、现在和未来，
which is time. 即时间。
There is time by the clock, chronological, 有钟表时间、时序的先后、
chronological time 物理时间
- we are not concerned with that. - 我们关心的不是那些。
If you have to keep an appointment, and so on, 如果你要守约，等等事情，
you must have the chronological time 你必须有物理时间的
of yesterday, today and tomorrow. 昨天、今天和明天。
But we are talking about the psychological time 但是我们在谈心理时间，
which thought has bred. 那是由思想滋生的。
And that time is the product of thought. 而那个时间是思想的产物。
I have had that pleasure, 我有过那快乐，
I am going to have it, and I shall have it. 我要再拥有它，我想再拥有它。
This time quality is created by thought, 这种时间的品质即由思想所造，
bred, put together by thought. 由思想滋生、拼凑。
And thought is time, and it is time that creates fear. 思想即时间，而它正是造成了恐惧的时间。
And without probing into this time-pleasure-thought, 如果不探究这种时间-快乐-思想，
we're always bound by time, 我们便总会受制于时间，
and therefore time has never a stop. 因此，时间永无终点。
It's only when there is an end to time 只有当时间终止时，
there is something totally new. 全新的东西才会出现。
Q: You speak of creating not a new consciousness 问：你谈到的不是创造一个新意识
but a new society. K: New society in relation to 而是一个新社会。克：这个新社会与
a mind that has completely undergone a revolution 一个经历了一次彻底革命的心智息息相关，
with regard to the psychological structure of society. 而这革命是对社会心理结构的彻底革命。
Q: Yes. Which would mean a society 问：是的。那是否意味着
which is not in time? 一个不存在于时间之中的社会？
K: No, it has to be also. Society has to be in time, 克：不，它还会如此。社会必然在时间之中，
but the individuals who have freed themselves 但是那些将自己
from this structure, psychological structure, 从这个结构，心理结构中解脱出来的个人，
will be freed of time. Therefore they won't be a slave to time 将从时间中解脱。因此，他们将不会是时间的奴隶，
but yet obey the laws of time in society. 但却遵守社会中的时间法则。
Q: It certainly isn't modern man who has invented time, 问：很显然，并非现代人发明了时间，
but the concept has an awful lot to do with time. 但是概念与时间关系莫逆。
K: Yes, time. I think it is because 克：是的，时间。我认为是因为
he made himself incapable of facing 'what is', 他自己无法面对“现在如何”，
the fact. 那事实。
Therefore he has a concept about the fact - 因此，他对事实有了个概念 -
the fact inwardly, psychologically - 内在的、心理上的事实 -
and according to that concept, formula, he functions. 他根据那个概念、公式而运作。
Therefore the fact, the formula and action 因此，事实、公式和行动
are contradictory with each other. 彼此相悖。
And therefore he is in constant battle with himself. 因此他在不断地与自己交战。
So is it possible to act without idea? 所以是否可能去行动而没有想法？
Idea being organised thought, 想法是组织好的思想，
and therefore formula. You follow? 因此是公式。跟上了吗？
Q: Yes, yes. 问：是的，是的。
K: It's only the free mind can see the whole. Right? 克：只有自由的心智能看到整体。对吗？
Q: But he must have some experience of the whole 问：但是他必须对整体有过一些经验，
in order to see that thing. 才能看到那东西。
K: Ah, no, no. 克：啊，不，不。
To see the whole thing you need a very sharp mind, 要看到事情的整体，你需要一个非常敏锐的心智，
very clear mind, 非常清晰的心智，
a mind that's not biased, a mind that doesn't say 一个不带偏见的心智，它不会说
'This I like, this I don't like.' “这个我喜欢，这个我不喜欢。”
Q: You have eliminated the mind that is in a pattern 问：你已经消除了处于模式中的
or expects to be led. 或者期望被引导的心智。
It won't ever see the complete truth. 那样的心智永远不会看到完整的真相。
But does that necessarily mean that the mind 但是那是否必然意味着
that is free will see the truth? 自由的心智将看到真理？
K: Look, if you want to see 克：看，如果你想看到
the view of that valley from the hill, 从山上俯瞰山谷的景致，
you take a survey of the whole thing, don't you? 你会考察这整件事情，不是吗？
That means your mind 那意味着你的心智
is no longer merely fixed on the Thacher School 不再仅仅着眼于萨切尔学校
- or a particular school - you look at the whole valley. - 或一个特定的学校 -你得去看整个山谷。
So here is a whole complex map of life - business, 所以这里展现出一整幅关于生命的复杂地图--事业，
all the rest of that - very complex. 等等诸如此类- 非常复杂。
And to understand the whole of that 而去理解那整体
you must be free to look. 你必须能自由地看。
Therefore I say... therefore we say: 因此我说...因此我们说：
free the mind from fear. 将心智从恐惧中解脱。
As long as there is fear, 只要有恐惧，
that fear will take shelter in a belief - 那恐惧会以一种信仰为庇护 -
Christian, or doesn't matter what belief - 基督教，或者不管什么信仰 -
because fear demands 因为恐惧要求
comfort, security, hope, and all the rest of it. 舒适、安全、希望，等等诸如此类。
So, being afraid of something, death or something else, 所以，害怕某事，死亡或其他什么事，
that fear must take shelter in something. 那恐惧必然藏身于某事之中。
Therefore, whether you believe in reincarnation or not, 因此，无论你是否相信转世，
or some other belief, it's the same 或其他某种信仰，都一样
- all beliefs are the same - 所有信仰都一样
because they are essentially born out of this fear. 因为它们本质上是从这恐惧中产生出来的。
So really the question is: 所以真正的问题是：
can fear be eliminated altogether? 恐惧能否被彻底消除？
It's like inquiring into if there is such thing as 'God'. 这就像在探询是否有“上帝”这样的东西。
I put it in quotes - that word 'God' is so heavily loaded 我将其放入引号 -“上帝”那个词的负载如此之重
that it has almost lost all its meaning. 以至它几乎丧失了它的全部意义。
If one wants to discover it, 如果一个人想发现它，
if there is or if there is not, how does one proceed? 有还是没有，此人该如何前进？
Obviously, to find out, 很明显，去发现，
all types of belief must come to an end, 所有形式的信仰必须止息，
and therefore all forms of fear must come to an end. 因此所有形式的恐惧必须止息。
Belief is a form of hope. And I hope because I am in despair, 信仰是希望的一种形式。我希望是因为我在绝望中，
and I invent a belief, a security, a state of mind which says 于是我发明了一种信仰、一种安全感、一种心智的状态，它说
there is something which is permanent 有某种永恒之物，
and I believe in that. 而我相信了这点。
And that belief obviously, 而很明显，那个信仰
not only conditions all examination, 不但局限了所有的检验、
all perception, but it prevents the total inaction. 所有的觉知，而且它妨碍了彻底的不行动。
Q: Sir, what is thinking? 问：先生，思考是什么？
K: You asked me what is thinking. 克：你问我什么是思考。
So my mind begins. 于是我的心智开始运作了。
Let's go into it a little bit. 我们稍微深入一点。
First I can say: I really don't know. 首先，我可以说:我真的不知道。
Then we can begin to analyse 然后我们可以开始分析
and say 'it is response of memory'. 并说“它是记忆的回应”。
You ask me what is my name, 你问我我的名字是什么，
and I know because I have repeated it so often, 我知道，是因为我经常重复它，
I tell you immediately. 我马上就能告诉你。
Now, you ask me a little more complex question; 现在，你问了我一个略显复杂的问题；
it takes a time interval. 它需要一个时间间隔。
In that time interval the mind is in operation to find the answer. 在那个时间的间隔中心智在运作以找到答案。
But if you ask me something which I don't know, 但是如果你问我一些我不知道的事情，
which nobody knows, 没人知道的事情，
which no book or philosophy answered it, 没有哪本书或哲学回答了的事情，
then I can only say 'I don't know.' 那我只能说“我不知道。”
Q: You pose then a significant question and a significant answer. 问：你提出了一个重要的问题和一个重要的答案。
K: I really don't know. Now, when I say 'I don't know,' 克：我真的不知道。现在，当我说“我不知道，”
I really mean I don't know. 我的意思是我真的不知道。
That means I'm not waiting for an answer, 那意味着我没有在等待一个答案，
or expecting someone to answer me, 或期待某人来回答我，
or looking for an answer. 或寻找一个答案。
Which means my mind is completely alert, 这意味着我的心智完全警觉，
but I'm not looking 但是我没有在张望，
because I don't know where to look, 因为我不知道我该往哪看，
or to whom to ask. Now, in that state 或是该去问谁。现在，在那个状态中
I begin to discover, 我开始了发现，
because that state is real freedom. 因为那个状态是真正的自由。
Such a mind is the religious mind, 这样的心智即宗教心智，
no longer seeking, 不再寻找，
no longer demanding experiences, 不再渴望经历，
he's not caught in visions. 他没有陷入幻象中。
And such a mind 而这样的心智
has an activity totally different, 拥有在一个不同的维度中的
at a different dimension, 完全不同的活动，
which thought can never possibly reach. 而这是思想永不可能达到的。
Thought has a place, very small place, 思想有一席之地，非常狭小，
but when one realises that, 但是当人认识到这点，
thought has no place at all. 就根本没有思想的位置了。
Which doesn't mean you live on ugly little sentiments, 那并不意味着你要靠鄙陋的情绪
emotions. 和感情来生活。
So one can function normally, 于是人能够在这个世界上正常地、
healthily, sanely in this world 健康的、理智地运作，
with a mind that is not cluttered up by thought. 带着一个不被思想堆满的心智。
And it is only such a mind, the religious mind, 只有这样一个心智，宗教心智，
that can know something beyond 能够知道一些超越
all the imaginations and structure of man's hope. 人类所有希望的想象和结构的东西。
There is no perfect society. 没有完美的社会。
And society doesn't want man to be free. 而社会不想让人类自由。
Q: Society does not want man to be free. 问：社会不想让人类自由。
K: Because freedom means, according to social... 克：因为自由意味着，根据社会的...
freedom means disorder, 自由意味着失序，
revolt means disorder, revolution means disorder. 反抗意味着失序，革命意味着失序。
So society forbids that. 所以社会禁止这些。
But man is always seeking freedom, 但是人类总是在寻找自由，
but freedom merely outwardly, 但仅仅是外在的自由，
in relation to the social structure. 那自由与社会结构有关。
Therefore he is in revolt against society but not revolt against 因此他在反抗社会而不是在反抗
the inner psychological structure which has created the society. 制造了这个社会的内在心理结构。
Q: Yes. Therefore the genuine radical, the revolution occurs 问：是的。因此真正彻底的革命发生在
within the human being. 人类内心。
K: Within the skin rather than within 克：在皮肤下而非在
the framework of social order. 社会秩序的框架下。
We are taking a journey together into the whole 我们一起踏上了一次旅程，探究整个
psychological structure of man. 人类的心理结构。
Because in the understanding of that structure 因为在对那个结构
and the meaning of it, 及其含义的了解之中，
we can then, perhaps, 也许，我们就能，
bring about a change in society. 为社会带来一次转变。
And society, God knows, needs 而社会，上帝知道，需要
a total change, a total revolution. 一次彻底的改变、一次彻底的革命。
All similarity should be distrusted. 所有类似的东西都该被质疑。
You know what I mean? 你知道我的意思吗？
Q: Yes. 问：知道。
K: So, psychologically, man has built this extraordinary 克：所以，心理上，人类已经建造了这个非凡的
structure called society, because inwardly he is that. 结构，称之为社会，因为在内心里他即社会。
But outwardly he has laid down laws how to control that. 但是从外在他颁布了如何掌控它的法律。
But inwardly we haven't... Q: Yes, I follow. 但是内心里我们还没有...问：是的，我明白。
K: Inwardly we are just wild! 克：内心里，我们依旧野蛮！
Q: It seems to me that society and the individual's inner make-up, 问：对我来说，那个社会和个人的内部构造，
that a society and an individual's inner make-up 即一个社会和一个人的内部构造
can be governed by quite different laws. 可由完全不同的法则来治理。
They can be two quite different things. 它们可以是完全不同的两种东西。
And I know much less about 我所知道的关于
the laws that may govern an individual 那些能治理个人内在的法则
inwardly than I do about the laws of society. 比我对社会法律的了解少多了。
K: Quite, quite. Naturally. 克：确实，确实。自然如此。
Q: And yet at the same time, from what little I know about the laws 问：但同时，从我对治理社会的法律很少的了解中，
that govern society, I find I have a profound pessimism 我发现对于创造一个新社会
in respect to creating a new society. 我有着深深的悲观。
K: Quite, quite. 克：确实，确实。
Sir, that's why, the problem is not 先生，那就是为什么，问题根本不是
changing society, at all. And we always go off, 改变社会。我们总是偏离，
talking about changing society, good society, 谈论改变社会，好的社会，
great society and all that. 伟大的社会和所有这些。
I think the real problem is: 我认为真正的问题是：
can there be a real mutation in the human mind? 在人类的心智中能否有真正的突变？
That is the real question. 那是真正的问题。
When that takes place, society will look after itself. 当它发生时，社会能照顾好它自己。
Q: It is as if the human society may have evolved 问：好像人类社会已经进化了，
but the human being as such has not. 但是人类还没有这样进化过。
K: Has hardly evolved. And that, of course, 克：几乎没有进化。当然，那就
brings up the problem: is there evolution, psychologically? 带来了这个问题：心理上，有进化吗？
Not outwardly - there is, 不是外在的- 外在有，
but psychologically is there such thing 但心理上，有这样的东西吗？
as evolution, that is, becoming better, 比如进化，也就是，变得更好，
changing from this to that, 从这个变成那个，
or creating an inward perfection? All that implies time. 或者创造一种内心的完美？所有那些都意味着时间。
And time is essentially... 而时间必然是...
through time you can't possibly change 通过时间你不可能改变
the psychological factor. Q: No. 心理因素。问：是的。
K: So, if one can put away all idea of gradual revolution, inwardly, 克：所以，如果人能把所有从内心逐渐进化的想法打消，
then we have to face the fact, 然后我们就不得不面对事实，
'what is', inwardly, each minute, 从内心，每一分钟都面对“现在如何”，，
and see if that fact, if 'what is' 并看到那个事实能否，“现在如何”能否
cannot absolutely be eliminated, immediately. 立刻被彻底地消除。
That is the real question. I don't know... 那才是真正的问题。我不知道...
There is no end to talking, to words, to attending meetings, 讲话、言词、参加集会，还有阅读，
and reading. 可以没完没了地继续。
But attending meetings, reading, discussing, 但是参加集会、阅读、讨论
has very little value. 意义不大。
If attending meetings, discussions 参加集会、讨论
and all the rest of it is merely a stimulus, 等等这一切不过是一种刺激，
then you are dependent, 然后你会依赖，
as people are dependent on LSD, on music, 就像人们依赖迷药、依赖音乐、
on pictures, 依赖画面、
on doing something. 依赖做事。
And as long as one is dependent, 只要人有依赖，
one is in conflict, one is in despair. 人就处于冲突中，人就处于绝望中。
And one has to come, 而人必须，
not through reading, 不是通过阅读，
to discover the whole process of knowing oneself. 而是去发现认识自己的这整个过程。
For the knowing of oneself is 因为自我了解就是
the beginning and the end of all misery. 一切苦难的开始与结束。
Q: This has been the 2nd of 8 programs 旁白：这是八集节目中的第二个，
presenting Krishnamurti, 展现的是克里希那穆提，
whose singularly challenging approach 他对于我们时代中的问题
to the problems of our time 那独特的挑战性的应对方式，
places him outside of any simple category, 这将他置于任何简单的归类之外，
like philosopher or religious leader. 像哲学家或宗教领袖之类。
Subsequent programs will explore love, fear, 接下来的节目将探索爱、恐惧、
conflict, the aging of the body, and death. 冲突、身体的老化和死亡。
In his next talk, Krishnamurti 在他的下一次谈话里，克里希那穆提
will speak of: 'Freedom from Fear'. 将探讨：“从恐惧中解脱”。
