现实与真理

Sue

That is, one has to find out what is reality and what is truth. Reality is also an illusion - do you understand? The reality of these mountains, the hills, the groves, the meadows, the river, that is reality, you can see it. And also reality is all the illusions, like nationality, like your beliefs, your dogmas, your rituals, your saviours, your Krishnas, all that, those are all illusions. They might have existed - might - but what we have made of them is illusion. That's a reality. Go into a church, into a temple, into a mosque, that is a reality. That is all the product of thought. Right? Of course. So reality has to be understood, seen. Reality, everything that thought has created, the atom bomb, the atom existed before thought investigated and created the bomb. Thought did not create nature, but thought has used nature. The chair that one is sitting on is made by thought out of wood. And truth has nothing whatsoever to do with reality. To find that is meditation. To begin to establish right relationship with human beings, not the everlasting battle between sexes, between human beings, killing each others, terrorizing each other, destroying the earth and so on. If we don't stop that, what is the good of your meditation?

也就是，你得去发现什么是现实，什么是真理。现实也可以是个幻觉-你明白吗？这些山脉，丘陵，树林，草地，河流，是现实，你能看见。同时现实也是所有的幻象，比如国家，比如你的信念，你的教条，你的仪式，你的救主，你的奎师那，所有这些，都是幻象。它们或许存在过-只是或许-但是你从中得出的是幻象。现实就是如此。去教堂，去寺庙，去清真寺，这是现实。这些都是思想的产物。对不对？当然是。所以必须了解并看清现实。现实是思想制造的所有东西，原子弹，原子早在思想对它进行研究并制造出炸弹之前就存在了。思想并没有创造自然，但是思想利用了自然。你坐的椅子是思想用木头造的。而真理与现实完全无关。去发现这点就是冥想。开始和人类建立正确的关系，而不是在两性之间，人类之间永无休止地争斗，互相残杀，互相恐吓，破坏地球，等等等等。如果我们不停止所有这些，你的冥想有什么用？

摘自SAANEN 3RD PUBLIC DIALOGUE 27TH JULY 1979.

Sue

老周：
“而真理与现实完全无关。”
这句话不好理解。真理指的是什么呢？

Sue:
And truth has nothing whatsoever to do with reality.
真理无论如何都与现实无关。

克从不从正面具体地说真理是什么。现实是我们的分别，我们的分裂，我们的自我，思想造作的一切。真理与这分裂冲突的现实无关。看清混乱，终结冲突，立即转变，才可能趋近那不可衡量不可言说之物。

Sue

And opinions, our judgements, personal evaluations, points of views and I don't think you can find truth through those means. But perhaps if we are serious enough and concerned and committed to the investigation of our own problems, not theoretically, not in abstraction but actually that which is happening. And two friends are talking over together about their problems, investigating and hoping thereby to resolve their problems. I hope that is clear. This is not a talk by the speaker but together have a conversation, a friendly, not antagonistic, not opposing points of view but together go into our problems.
看法，我们的判断，个人评价，观点，我认为你是无法通过这些东西发现真理的。但是，如果我们足够认真，关心并投入到对我们自己的问题的探查中去，不是理论上也不是抽象地探索，而是实实在在地探查正在发生着的一切。两个朋友在一起探讨他们的问题，考察，希望就此解决他们的问题。我希望这点是清楚的。这不是讲话者做的一次演讲，而是我们一起对话，友好的，不对抗的对话，不是观点互相对立，而是一起深入我们的问题。

摘自：SAANEN 1ST PUBLIC DIALOGUE 25TH JULY 1979