为何有人富有有人贫穷？——fqzhao译

Sue

提问：为何有些人终生都在贫穷中挣扎，而有些人生而富有，衣食无忧？

克：你怎么认为呢？与其等待我来给你答案，为什么不去努力发现你自己对此的感受？
你觉得这是因为某种神秘的过程，即被称为业力的东西？在前生做好事所以现在得到名利的奖赏？是这样么？还是过去生做了坏事因此今生受惩罚！

大家看到，这是一个非常复杂的问题。贫穷是整个社会的错；这个社会中贪婪和狡诈的人靠剥削钻营获得金钱，爬到高位。每个人都想这样，我们都想向上爬，直到金字塔尖。然而每个人都在这样做时，会发生什么情况？我们会踩在他人的头顶上。于是这个被踩踏，受压制的人说：“为什么生活如此不公？你拥有一切而我却一无所有。”只要我们继续攀爬成功之梯，贫苦和饥饿就永远不会消失。因此需要被了解的是想要成功的欲望而不是为什么有人贫穷有人富有的问题；需要改变的正是我们自己想要向上攀爬的欲望，想要变得伟大，变得成功的欲望。我们都希望成功，不是么？这才是错误所在，而并非源自业力或者其他什么解释。事实即是每个人都希望在金字塔顶– 也许不是塔顶，但至少是你眼前梯子的高处。只要存在这种欲望，想要成为某人，想要变得重要，我们中就一定有富人与穷人，剥削者和被剥削者。

原文:

Questioner: Why are some people born in poor circumstances, while others are rich and well-to-do?

Krishnamurti: What do you think? Instead of asking me and waiting for my answer, why do you not find out what you feel about it? Do you think it is some mysterious process which you call karma? In a former life you lived nobly and therefore you are now being rewarded with wealth and position! Is that it? Or, having acted very badly in a former life, you are paying for it in this life!

You see, this is really a very complex problem. Poverty is the fault of society - a society in which the greedy and the cunning exploit and rise to the top. We want the same thing, we also want to climb the ladder and get to the top. And when all of us want to get to the top, what happens? We tread on somebody; and the man who is trodden on, who is destroyed, asks, "Why is life so unfair? You have everything and I have no capacity, I have nothing". As long as we go on climbing the ladder of success, there will always be the sick and the unfed. It is the desire for success that has to be understood, and not why there are the rich and the poor, or why some have talent and others have none. What has to be changed is our own desire to climb, our desire to be great, to be a success. We all aspire to succeed, do we not? There lies the fault, and not in karma or any other explanation. The actual fact is that we all want to be at the top - perhaps not right at the top, but at least as high up the ladder as we can climb. As long as there is this drive to be great, to be somebody in the world, we are going to have the rich and the poor, the exploiter and those who are exploited.

Sue

“只要我们继续攀爬成功之梯，贫苦和饥饿就永远不会消失。因此需要被了解的是想要成功的欲望而不是为什么有人贫穷有人富有的问题；需要改变的正是我们自己想要向上攀爬的欲望，想要变得伟大，变得成功的欲望。我们都希望成功，不是么？这才是错误所在，而并非源自业力或者其他什么解释。事实即是每个人都希望在金字塔顶– 也许不是塔顶，但至少是你眼前梯子的高处。只要存在这种欲望，想要成为某人，想要变得重要，我们中就一定有富人与穷人，剥削者和被剥削者。”

如果我们真的爱我们的孩子，想让他们生活在一个更加美好的世界，我们就会停止想要向上攀爬的一切追求。可是我们呢？

vincirain

克氏也曾经提到Don't be mediocre，而mediocre就是说停在半山腰而不去爬到山顶。那么这里提到的desire又如何理解呢？爬上云梯和爬上山顶难道有什么区别呢？have the desire to be at the top和Don't be mediocre有什么区别呢？

Sue

mediocre是指淹没在世俗里，没有独立探索的精神。下面这段参考一下：

"Beneath my worldly life, however, there has always been a vague religious groping, and when I began to have children, this groping took the form of a deep hope that one of my children would be religiously inclined. And not one of them is; they have all become prosperous and worldly, except the last one, who is a mixture of everything. All of them are really mediocre, and that is what hurts. They are engrossed in their worldliness. It all seems so superficial and silly, but I haven't discussed it with any of them, and even if I did, they wouldn't understand what I was talking about. I thought that at least one of them would be different, and I am horrified at their mediocrity and my own. It is this, I suppose, that is causing my sorrow. What can one do to break up this stupid state?"
“然而，在我世俗的生活下，总有一种模糊的宗教追寻，当我有孩子的时候，这种探索就表现为深切希望我其中的一个孩子会有宗教倾向。而他们中的任何一个都没有；他们都变得成功、世俗，除了最小的孩子，他是个混合体。他们所有人都真的很平庸，这就是我心痛的地方。他们全心投入到俗务中。这看起来是那么肤浅和愚蠢，但是我从没跟他们中的任何一个讨论过这点，即使我这么做了，他们也不会明白我在说什么。我原以为他们中至少有一个能与众不同，我也惊骇于他们和我自己的平庸。我想，这就是导致我哀伤的原因。我要怎样才能打破这种愚蠢的状态？”

     In oneself or in another? One can only break up mediocrity in oneself, and then perhaps a different relationship with others may arise. To know that one is mediocre is already the beginning of change, is it not? But a petty mind, becoming aware of itself, frantically tries to change, to improve, and this very urge is mediocre. Any desire for self-improvement is petty. When the mind knows that it is mediocre and does not act upon itself, there is the breaking up of mediocrity.
在自己身上还是在别人身上？一个人只能打破自身的平庸，然后一种不同的与别人的关系才可能出现。知道自己是平庸的，改变就已经开始，不是吗？但是一个狭隘的心智，变得对自身觉知，拼命地想要改变，想要进步，这种渴望本身就是平庸。任何自我改善的欲望都是狭隘的。当心智知道自己平庸而不对自身采取任何行动时，才能打破这平庸。

     "What do you mean by `act upon itself?'"
“你说的‘对自身采取行动’是什么意思？”

     If a petty mind, realizing it is petty, makes an effort to change itself, is it not still petty? The effort to change is born of a petty mind, therefore that very effort is petty.
如果一个狭隘的心智，认识到自己的狭隘，然后努力去改变自己，这难道不依然是狭隘的吗？想要改变的努力诞生于一个狭隘的心智，所以那努力本身就是狭隘的。

     "Yes, I see that, but what can one do?"
“是的，我明白这点，但是能怎么办呢？”

     Any action of the mind is small, limited. The mind must cease to act, and only then is there the ending of mediocrity.
心智的任何行为都是狭隘的，局限的。心智必须停止活动，只有这时，平庸才能终结。

Sue

而have the desire to be at the top是指爬上社会阶层的顶端，这种欲望正是在践行mediocre.

还有这句：Ambition breeds mediocrity of mind and heart; ambition is superficial, for it is everlastingly seeking a result. 野心滋生头脑和心灵的平庸；野心是肤浅的，因为它永远都在追求一个结果。
出处：COMMENTARIES ON LIVING SERIES II CHAPTER 38 'THE COMPETITIVE WAY OF LIFE'

还有：Essentially, self-improvement is but mediocrity. Self-improvement through virtue, through identification with capacity, through any form of positive or negative security, is a self-enclosing process however wide. Ambition breeds mediocrity, for ambition is the fulfilment of the self through action, through the group, through idea.
从本质上讲，自我改善只是平庸。通过美德，通过认同能力，通过获取任何形式的正面的或者负面的安全，进行的自我改善，是一种自我封闭的过程，不管其领域看起来多么广阔。野心滋生平庸，因为野心是通过活动，通过团体，通过观念，去实现自我。
出处：COMMENTARIES ON LIVING SERIES II CHAPTER 56 'IS THERE PROFOUND THINKING?'

vincirain

感谢回复！
可以这样理解吗？
对外在的追求达到at the top的状态是一种平庸，而对内在的追求却是应该达到顶峰？
另外对内在世界的探求应该存在desire吗？克氏好像是反对的。
那么在Don't be mediocre的过程中，没有一种自然之力去驱使达到内在的顶峰吗？
如果有的话，和对外在的追求又有什么区别呢？如果没有的话，为什么又要用mediocre这个词眼。
还有对外在的追求的驱动力是否是出自自然呢？
如果是的话，又如何要回避呢？

Sue

回复 6# vincirain

“如果一个狭隘的心智，认识到自己的狭隘，然后努力去改变自己，这难道不依然是狭隘的吗？想要改变的努力诞生于一个狭隘的心智，所以那努力本身就是狭隘的。”
“心智的任何行为都是狭隘的，局限的。心智必须停止活动，只有这时，平庸才能终结。”

从这两段可以看出，克否定的是一切形式的追求。

vincirain

恩 我刚刚开始接触克氏，感谢您的指点。
我有一些疑惑：
1）克氏似乎觉得人陷于无休止的工作是一种可悲的状态，但是人首先得养活自己不是吗？
不是所有人都能向他一样可以不去考虑钱的问题，能够住在松林别墅去感悟自然。
如果没有这些优厚的物质支撑，他是否会有这般体悟呢？这是一直让我困惑的问题，请指点。
2）我不太清楚克氏对人类现有的文明，比如艺术创作比如科技是持什么样的观点？
给我感觉他好像觉得人类的干预过多了，那些并不是如此美好，那么他是希望一个原始的生存状态吗？
难道就像Avatar吗？

Sue

人的基本生存需要是要满足的，也是很容易满足的。在此之上更多的欲望，就要好好审视了。

李瑞

克曾多次提到过这个问题，人需要食物和住处，这很简单，但问题是”更多”的想法。