Krishnamurti: We must also set aside the whole meaning of authority, because in meditation any form of authority, either one's own or the authority of another, becomes an impediment and prevents freedom - prevents a freshness, a newness. So authority, conformity and imitation must be set aside completely. Otherwise you merely imitate, follow what has been said, and that makes the mind very dull and stupid. In that there is no freedom. Your past experience may guide, direct or establish a new path, and so even that must go. Then only can one go into this very deep and extraordinarily important thing called meditation. Meditation is the essence of energy.
克:我们必须把权威的整个含义都放在一旁,因为在冥想中,任何形式的权威,无论是一个人自己的还是别人的权威,都会变成一种障碍,妨碍了自由——妨碍新鲜和崭新的东西出现。所以权威、遵从和仿效必须被彻底搁置一旁。否则你就只是在模仿、遵从别人所说的,而那会让头脑变得非常迟钝和愚蠢。那里没有自由。你过去的经验或许能够引导、指出或者建立一种新途径,所以即使是这些东西也必须放下。只有此时你才能深入到被称为冥想的这件非常深刻和极其重要的事情当中去。冥想是能量的核心。
Questioner: For many years I have tried to see that I do not become a slave to the authority of someone else or to a pattern. Of course there is a danger of deceiving myself but as we go along I shall probably find out. But when you say that meditation is the essence of energy, what do you mean by the words energy and meditation?
发问者:多年来,我一直努力确保自己不成为别人的权威或者某种模式的奴隶。当然这其中会有一种自欺的危险,但是当我们探讨下去时,我可能就会有所发现。然而当你说冥想是能量的核心时,其中的能量和冥想这些词是什么意思呢?
Krishnamurti: Every movement of thought every action demands energy. Whatever you do or think needs energy, and this energy can be dissipated through conflict, through various forms of unnecessary thought, emotional pursuits and sentimental activities. Energy is wasted in conflict which arises in duality, in the "me" and the "not-me", in the division between the observer and the observed, the thinker and the thought. When this wastage is no longer taking place there is a quality of energy which can be called an awareness - an awareness in which there is no evaluation, judgement, condemnation or comparison but merely an attentive observation, a seeing of things exactly as they are, both inwardly and outwardly, without the interference of thought, which is the past.
克:思想的每个运动,每个活动都需要能量。无论你做什么或者想什么,都需要能量,而这种能量可能会因为冲突,因为各种形式的不必要的思想、感情追求和感情用事的行为,而消耗。能量浪费在来自二元性、“我”和“非我”的冲突中,浪费在观察者和被观察者、思想者和思想之间的分裂中。只有这种浪费不再发生时,才能有一种可以被称为觉察的能量品质——在这觉察中没有评估、判断、谴责和比较,只有一种全神贯注的观察,从内在和外在如实地看到事情的样子,没有思想也就是过去的干扰。
Questioner: Yes, I see that. That subtle form of recognition does distort, I see that. You say all these interferences of thought are a waste of energy. You say observe without any form of recognition, condemnation, judgement; observe without naming, for that naming, recognition, condemnation are a waste of energy. That can be logically and actually understood. Then there is the next point which is the division, the separateness, or, rather, as you have often put it in your talks, the space that exists between the observer and the observed which creates duality; you say that this also is a waste of energy and brings about conflict. I find everything you say logical but I find it extraordinarily difficult to remove that space, to bring about harmony between the observer and the observed. How is this to be done?
发问者:是的,这点我明白。这种微妙的认知形式确实有扭曲作用,我看到了这点。你说所有这些思想的干扰是能量的浪费。你说观察而没有任何形式的认知、谴责和评判;不命名地观察,因为命名、认知和谴责是能量的浪费。这点可以从道理上被真正地理解。接下来的一个要点是分裂、分离,或者如你在讲话中所说的,存在于观察者和被观察者之间的距离,这产生了二元性;你说这也是一种能量的浪费,带来了冲突。我发现你说的每一件事都很有道理,但是我发现要去除那个距离,带来观察者与被观察者之间的和谐,是极其困难的。要怎样才能做到这点?
Krishnamurti: There is no how. The how means a system, a method, a practice which becomes mechanical. Again we have to be rid of the significance of the word "how".
Questioner: Is it possible? I know the word possible implies a future, an effort, a striving to bring about harmony, but one must use certain words. I hope we can go beyond those words, so is it possible to bring about a union between the observer and the observed?
克:没有怎样。怎样意味着变得机械的一个体系,一个方法,一种练习。我们还得摒弃“怎样”这个词的含义。
发问者:这可能吗?我知道可能这个词暗示了一个未来,一种想带来和谐的努力和追求,但是你必须得使用某些词语。我希望我们能超越这些词语,那么,是否可能带来观察者和被观察者之间的一种统一?
Krishnamurti: The observer is always casting its shadow on the thing it observes. So one must understand the structure and the nature of the observer, not how to bring about a union between the two. One must understand the movement of the observer and in that understanding perhaps the observer comes to an end. We must examine what the observer is: it is the past with all its memories, conscious and unconscious, its racial inheritance, its accumulated experience which is called knowledge, its reactions. The observer is really the conditioned entity. He is the one who asserts that he is, and I am. In protecting himself, he resists, dominates, seeking comfort and security. The observer then sets himself apart as something different from that which he observes, inwardly or outwardly. This brings about a duality and from this duality there is conflict, which is the wastage of energy. To be aware of the observer, his movement, his self-centred activity, his assertions, his prejudices, one must be aware of all these unconscious movements which build the separatist feeling that he is different. It must be observed without any form of evaluation, without like and dislike; just observe it in daily life, in its relationships. When this observation is clear, isn't there then a freedom from the observer?
克:观察者总是在它观察的事物上投射自己的阴影。所以一个人必须了解观察者的结构和性质,而不是去实现这两者之间的统一。一个人必须了解观察者的活动,在这种了解中,也许观察者就终止了。我们必须审视观察者是什么:它是带着所有记忆的过去,有意识的和无意识的,带着过去的种族遗传,被称为知识的积累起来的经验,以及过去的种种反应。观察者实在是一个局限的存在体。他是那个坚称他是谁和我是谁的人。在自我保护中,他抗拒,控制,寻求舒适和安全。继而观察者把自己作为不同于他所观察之物的某种东西分离开来,从内在或外在都是如此。这带来了一种二元性,从这种二元性中就产生了冲突,那正是能量的浪费。要觉察到观察者,他的活动,他的自我中心行为,他的主张,他的偏见,一个人就必须觉察到所有这些潜意识的活动,这些活动制造了一种分离感,感觉自己是不同的。必须没有任何形式的评估,没有好恶地观察到这一点;只是在日常生活中,在关系中观察这些。当这种观察清晰之时,不就有了一种从观察者中解脱出来的自由吗?
Questioner: I think I begin to understand what you are saying. You are giving quite a different meaning and dimension to the word learning, which is marvellous. I am beginning to grasp it. You are saying that meditation is a movement of learning and in that there is freedom to learn about everything, not only about meditation, but about the way one lives, drives, eats, talks, everything.
发问者:我想我开始理解你所说的了。你赋予了学习这个词完全不同的含义和特性,这很奇妙。我开始领会这一点了。你说冥想是学习的运动,其中就有对所有事情进行学习的自由,不只是学习冥想,而是了解一个人的生活方式,他如何驾驶,进食,说话,所有的事情。
Krishnamurti: As we said, the essence of energy is meditation. To put it differently - so long as there is a meditator there is no meditation. If he attempts to achieve a state described by others, or some flash of experience....
克:正如我们所说,能量的核心是冥想。换句话说——只要有冥想者就没有冥想。如果他试图实现别人描述的某个状态,或者得到某种灵光闪现的体验...
Questioner: If I may interrupt you, sir, are you saying that learning must be constant, a flow, a line without any break, so that learning and action are one, or a constant movement? I don't know what word to use, but I am sure you understand what I mean. The moment there is a break between learning, action and meditation, that break is a disharmony, that break is conflict. In that break there is the observer and the observed and hence the whole wastage of energy; is that what you are saying?
发问者:如果我可以打断你一下,先生,你是不是说学习必须是一种不停的流动,没有任何中断的一条线,这样学习和行动就是一体的,或者是同一个不停的运动?我不知道该用什么词,但是我相信你明白我的意思。一旦学习、行动和冥想之间有裂隙,那裂隙就是不和谐,那裂隙就是冲突。那裂隙中有观察者和被观察者,因而就有整个能量的浪费;这是你所说的意思吗?
Krishnamurti: Yes, that is what we mean. Meditation is not a state; it is a movement, as action is a movement. And as we said just now, when we separate action from learning, then the observer comes between the learning and the action; then he becomes important; then he uses action and learning for ulterior motives. When this is very clearly understood as one harmonious movement of acting, of learning, of meditation, there is no wastage of energy and this is the beauty of meditation. There is only one movement. Learning is far more important than meditation or action. To learn there must be complete freedom, not only consciously but deeply, inwardly - a total freedom. And in freedom there is this movement of learning, acting, meditating as a harmonious whole. The word whole not only means health but holy. So learning is holy, acting is holy, meditation is holy. This is really a sacred thing and the beauty is in itself and not beyond it.
克:是的,这就是我们说的意思。冥想不是一个状态;那是一种运动,就像行动是一种运动。正如我们刚才所说,当我们把行动和学习分开,从学习和行动之间就产生了观察者;然后他就变得很重要;然后他就利用行动和学习来达成别有用心的目的。当非常清晰地理解了作为同一个和谐运动的行动、学习和冥想时,就没有了能量的浪费,而这就是冥想的美。只存在着一种运动。学习比冥想或者行动重要多了。要学习,就必须有完全的自由,不仅仅是意识层面的自由,而且是深深的内在的自由——全然的自由。在自由中就有这种学习、行动和冥想作为一个和谐整体的运动。完整这个词不仅仅意味着健康,而且意味着神圣。所以学习是神圣的,行动是神圣的,冥想是神圣的。这是真正神圣的事情,美就在其中,而不在什么遥远的地方。
《转变的紧迫性》之“冥想与能量” |