K: Did you have a good sleep? 克：你们睡得好吗？
S: Yes, sir. K: Yes? Good. 学生：是的，先生。克：是吗？很好。
What are you going to do today? 你们今天打算做些什么？
S: Tell us something about yourself, sir. 学：告诉我们一些关于您自己的事情，先生。
K: No, I asked you what you're going to do today? 克：不，我是在问你们今天打算做些什么？
School? Class? 上学？上课？
K: Do we all sit quietly, silently, or do we talk? 克：我们所有的人是安静地坐着，沉默地坐着呢，还是来交谈？
Tell me. S: Talk. 告诉我。学：交谈。
K: You talk - then talk. 克：你们讲。--那么就来讲吧。
What would you like to talk about? S: Talk about yourself, sir. 你们想要谈些什么呢？学：请谈下您自己，先生。
S: Tell us something about yourself, sir. 学：请告诉我们一些关于您自己的事情，先生。
K: About myself? Not very interesting. 克：关于我自己？那没什么意思。
S: It doesn't matter, sir. 学：没关系，先生。
S: He said it doesn't matter. 学：他说那没关系。
K: I know. It matters to me though. 克：我知道。但是对我来说有关系。
What would you like me to talk about myself? 你们想让我来谈些关于我自己的什么事情呢？
S: The past. K: About my past? 学：您的过去。克：关于我过去的事情吗？
Are you really interested in it? S: Yes, sir. (Laughter) 你们真的对此感兴趣吗？学：是的，先生。（笑声）
K: Why? 克：为什么？
You tell me why, and then I'll talk. 你们告诉我为什么，然后我来讲。
S: We're curious. K: You're curious, and then what? 学：我们很好奇。克：你们很好奇，然后怎样呢？
If you're curious, and I fulfil your curiosity... 如果你们好奇，然后我来满足你们的好奇心...
...alright, then what? ...好的，然后怎样呢？
S: Then we'll be more curious. 学：然后我们会更加好奇。
K: More curious, you're quite right. 克：更加好奇，你说得非常对。
So, where shall we start? 那么，我们应该从哪里开始呢？
S: From the beginning, sir. K: From the beginning. (Laughter) 学：从头开始，先生。克：从头开始。（笑声）
Look, most of my life I've forgotten. 听我说，我人生的大部分我已经忘记了。
Really. 真是这样。
Really, I'm serious... 是真的，我是认真的...
...and I tell you most of my life is blank to me. ...并且我要告诉你，我人生的大部分对我来说都是空白。
S: Sir, tell us what you remember. 学：先生，告诉我们您所记得的。
K: Ah - that's good. 克：哦--好的。
You're rather persistent, aren't you? (Laughs) 你们相当的坚持，不是吗？（笑声）
I'll tell you what I don't remember... 我会告诉你们我所不记得的事情...
...what people have told me. Right? ...那些人们告诉我的事情。好吗？
I really don't remember, but what people have told me... 我真的不记得了，但是人们告诉过我一些事情...
...either they're exaggerated - you understand? ...那些事情或许是夸张的--你们明白吗？
...or truthful, or imaginary. ...或者是真实的，或者是想象出来的。
I think what they told me about myself... 我想他们所告诉我的关于我自己的事情...
...sounds very funny, doesn't it... ...这听起来很滑稽，不是吗...
...is more or less accurate... ...那些事或多或少是确切的...
...because a lot of people have told me the same thing... ...因为很多人对我讲了相同的事情...
...during the years. Right? ...在以往的日子里。对吗？
Lord, I don't know where to begin. 天啊，我不知道从哪里说起。
All right, sirs. 好吧，先生们。
You know, somebody gave me personally... 你们知道，有人赠予我个人...
...5,000 acres in Holland... ...在荷兰的5千英亩的土地...
...you understand? - 5,000 acres is an awful lot... ...你们明白吗？--5千英亩是非常大的一片土地...
...and a castle... ...还有一座城堡...
...and we had gatherings there... ...并且我们在那里聚会...
...6,000 people at one time, lots of people; curiosity... ...一次有6千人，非常多的人；充满了好奇心...
...like you. ...就像你们一样。
Curiosity to find out what K was talking about... 充满好奇心想弄明白克会讲些什么...
...and so on. ...等等。
I was against - K was against organisations. 我当时反对--克是反对各种组织的。
You understand? 你们明白吗？
You don't understand, that's all right. 你们不明白，没关系。
You know what organisations are? 你们知道什么是组织吗？
To run a school, like Rishi Valley, you must have organisation. 要办一所学校，就像瑞希山谷学校，你必须有组织。
You must turn up punctually at 1 o'clock... 你必须在一点钟准时出现...
...or half-past 12, when you have your lunch. ...或者12点半，那时要去吃午饭。
Right? 对吗？
You must go to classes, you must do this, play from 4 o'clock and on. 你必须要去上各种课，必须做这个，必须从4点开始玩耍，等等。
The whole of that requires organisation. 所有那些都需要组织。
But... lord, how did we get into this? 但是...天啊，我们怎么会谈论这些？
Hey, come and help me, Radhikaji! 嘿，瑞迪卡吉，快来帮帮我！
And I was against so-called religious organisations. 我那时候反对那些所谓的宗教组织。
Right? Do you understand what that means? 是吗？你们明白那是什么意思吗？
No. 不理解。
Do you want to know all this? 你们想了解所有这些吗？
S: Yes, sir. 学：是的，先生。
K: Really? S: Yes, sir. 克：真的吗？学：是的，先生。
K: Don't say, 'Yes, sir', because... 克：不要说，“是的，先生”，因为...
S: In many of your books it mentions Krishnamurti's teachings... 学：在您的很多书里都提到克里希那穆提的教诲...
...but then you always say that you are not a teacher... ...但是您却总是说您不是一位老师...
...always this contradiction. ...总有这种矛盾。
K: How does this come about... 克：为什么会出现这样的情况...
...that K's teachings are religious teachings... ...克的教诲是宗教的教导...
...and K himself says he is not a teacher. ...然而克自己却说他不是一位老师。
Right? How do you account for it? 对吗？你如何说明这一点呢？
How do you account for it? 你如何来说明它？
What do you say about it? 你对这一点有什么看法？
I don't have to account to you, sir. 我不需要向你解释，先生。
I was only joking, but I'm asking you... 我刚才在开玩笑，不过我在问你...
...how do you account for it? ...你如何说明它？
You asked that question, didn't you? 你问了那个问题，不是吗？
Yes, sir? 是吗，先生？
What do you say about it? 你对它有什么看法？
Is there a contradiction? 那里存在矛盾吗？
Or K is not personally... 或者克作为一个身体存在...
...as a body - you understand? ...并没有什么特别之处--你明白吗？
...as an organism, as a physical entity, he is not important. ...作为一个有机体，一个物理实体存在，他并不重要。
What he says is important. 他所说的话是重要的。
Right? That's all. 对吗？就是这样。
Where are we? 我们谈到哪里了？
You're interested in all this? 你们对这些感兴趣吗？
S: No, sir. 学：不，先生。
K: Not specially. Right? 克：不是特别感兴趣。对吗？
I thought the older boys were going to sit here. 我本以为年龄大些的男孩子今天会坐在这里。
S: Sir, why is our mind always so cluttered with thought? 学：先生，为什么我们的头脑总是纠结于思想？
And why are we all so concerned about ourselves? 而且为什么我们都如此的关注我们自己？
K: Why are we so concerned about ourselves and... 克：为什么我们如此的关注我们自己，并且...
S: Why is our mind always so cluttered with thought? 学：为什么我们的头脑总是如此纠结于思想？
K: Why is our mind so cluttered up with thought. Right? 克：为什么我们的头脑如此纠结于思想。对吗？
I'm not a brain specialist. 我不是大脑的专家。
You understand? 你们明白吗？
I've talked to a great many scientists... 我和非常多的科学家交谈过...
...in America, in England, and so on... ...美国的，英国的，等等这些国家的科学家...
...and I've also talked to a great many biologists... ...并且我也和很多的生物学家交谈过...
...and psychiatrists, and so on. ...还有精神病学家们，等等。
Have you ever considered what our brain is? 你们有没有想过我们的大脑是什么？
What's your brain? 你的大脑是什么？
Why is it so filled up with thought? 为什么头脑中充满了思想？
Why is it that our brain is never quiet? 为什么我们的大脑永远无法安静？
Right? Why? 是吗？为什么？
I'm asking you. 我在问你们。
What's the other question? 另外的问题是什么？
S: Why are we always so concerned... 学：为什么我们总是那么关注...
K: Why are we so concerned about ourselves? 克：为什么我们是如此的关注我们自己？
Go on, you answer me. 继续，你们来回答我。
Why are you concerned about yourself all the time, most of the time? 为什么你总是关注你自己，大部分的时候都是如此？
S: We want the best for yourself. 学：我们想表现得最好。
K: What do you call best? 克：你认为什么是最好？
S: We want to have all the privileges. 学：我们想拥有所有的特权。
K: You want to have all the privileges. 克：你想拥有所有的特权。
What do you mean that? 你说的话是什么意思？
What do you mean by privileges? 你所说的特权是什么？
S: We want to have all the comfort. 学：我们想拥有所有的安逸。
K: You want all the comfort, all the land. 克：你们想要所有的安逸，所有的土地。
S: The advantages. 学：各种优势。
K: All the advantages, all the best things of the world. 克：所有的优势，世界上所有最好的事物。
Right? 是吗？
Are we answering your question? 我们在回答你的问题吗？
No. 没有。
You understand what that girl asked? 你们理解那个女孩问的问题吗？
She wanted to know why we are concerned about ourselves so much. 她想要知道为什么我们如此的关注我们自己。
Have you answered that question? 你们回答那个问题了吗？
S: You are concerned about yourself because... 学：你关注你自己因为你...
I mean you always think about yourself... 我是说你总是想到你自己...
K: Yes. I know that. Why are you so concerned about yourself? 克：是的。我知道。你为什么如此的关注你自己？
Everybody is - it's not something unusual. 每个人都是如此--那并非什么与众不同的事情。
There are very rare people... 只有相当少的人...
...who are not concerned about themselves - very rare. ...他们不关注他们自己--这样的人非常稀有。
So, why are you concerned about yourself? 所以，为什么你关注你自己？
S: Sir, because everything you do... 学：先生，因为你做的每一件事...
...is usually circled around you. ...通常都是围着你自己转的。
K: Everything you do is around you. 克：你做的每一件事都是围绕你自己的。
S: It concerns you. 学：那和你有关。
S: Speak louder. 学：大点儿声。
S: Sir, everything you do ultimately concerns you. 学：先生，你做的每一件事最终都是关于你自己的。
K: Everything you do ultimately concerns you. 克：你所做的每一件事最终都是关于你自己的。
Right? 是吗？
What is you? Who are you? 你是什么？你是谁？
S: I am the body. K: Yes - what are you? 学：我就是这个身体。克：是的--你是什么？
The body, blonde hair, purple eyes... 你的身体，金色头发，紫色眼睛...
...dark skin, light skin, your name might be, what? ...深色皮肤，浅色皮肤，你的名字可能是，什么？
Mr Rao or Mrs Rao, or Miss Rao... 饶先生，饶夫人，饶小姐...
...I don't know, whatever your name... ...我不知道，无论你的名字是什么...
...that's what you are, aren't you? ...那就是你，不是吗？
Your face, your body... 你的脸孔，你的身体...
...and beyond that, what are you? ...而除了那些，你是什么？
Are you your BA's and MA's? 你是你的学士学位硕士学位吗？
You're all going to pass exams, aren't you? 你们都会通过各种考试，不是吗？
Yes? 是吗？
I don't know why, but you are going to pass exams... 我不知道那是为什么，但是你们要通过那些考试...
...like a lot of monkeys. ...就像一大群猴子一样。
And that's what you are... 那就是你们...
...BA, MA, PhD... ...学士学位，硕士学位，博士学位...
...or a good lawyer, a good engineer, scientist, that's what you are. ...或者一个好的律师，好的工程师，科学家，那就是你们。
All that is you, isn't it? 所有那些就是你，不是吗？
BA, MA, PhD, MAD. Right? (Laughter) 学士学位，硕士学位，博士学位。对吗？（笑声）
All that's what you are. 所有那些就是你们。
Aren't you? 不是吗？
No? What are you then? 不是？那么你们是什么？
You marry somebody, and you're called Mrs after that... 你和某人结婚，从此以后人们称你为夫人...
Right? Or Miss, or whatever you like to call yourself. 对吗？或者小姐，无论你喜欢如何称呼你自己。
So what are you? 那么你是什么？
Why are you so concerned about yourself? 为什么你如此的关注你自己？
I know you want all the advantages, all the privileges, all the earth... 我知道你们想要所有的优势，所有的特权，所有的土地...
...but who is 'I' that wants all this? ...但是那个想拥有一切的“我”是谁？
S: Your mind. 学：你的头脑。
K: What do you mean by the mind? 克：你所说的头脑是什么意思？
Don't just throw out words. 不要只是抛出一些词语。
What do you mean by the mind? 你所说的头脑是什么意思？
S: Your self, sir. 学：你自己，先生。
Your soul. Our soul, sir. 你的灵魂。我们的灵魂，先生。
K: Your soul. 克：你的灵魂。
S: You can see the mind is something that tells you, tells you what to do. 学：你可以看到是头脑在告诉你，告诉你去做些什么。
I mean there's this thing called mind in you... 我是说在你身体里，有一个被称作头脑的东西...
...that keeps telling you, do this, do that, don't do this. ...它不断告诉你，做这个，做那个，不要做这个。
K: So what are you trying to say? 克：那么你想要说的是什么呢？
S: I want to know what the mind is. 学：我想知道什么是头脑。
K: You want to know what the mind is. 克：你想知道什么是头脑。
Before you go in to enquire what the mind is... 在你开始询问什么是头脑之前...
...what is the brain, what's your brain like? ...什么是大脑，你的大脑是什么样子？
What, sir? 什么，先生？
S: It helps you to think. 学：它帮助你思考。
S: Your brain helps you to think, sir. 学：你的大脑帮助你思考，先生。
K: Your brain helps you to think. 克：你的大脑帮助你思考。
Right? 对吗？
It's getting rather complex, isn't it? 这个话题正变得相当复杂，是吗？
What do you mean by thinking? 你所说的思考是什么意思？
You are all thinking, aren't you? 你们都在思考，是吗？
Naturally. 自然地。
What do you mean by thinking? 你们说的思考是什么意思？
S: The way you feel, your ideas and opinions. 学：你的感觉，你的各种看法和观点。
K: No, I said what do you mean by thinking. 克：不，我说的是你们所说的思考是什么意思？
S: To find out. 学：去发现。
K: Thinking, not finding out. 克：思考，不是发现。
You understand the difference between the two? 你们明白两者之间的区别吗？
I think this morning I'll go for a walk. 我想今天早晨我要去散个步。
I think. You understand? 我想。你们明白吗？
Now what do you mean by thinking? 那么你们所说的思考是什么意思？
S: It is the power to decide. 学：那是做决定的力量。
K: You're not answering my question, old boy. 克：你没在回答我的问题，孩子。
I'm asking you, if you'll kindly listen... 我在问你，如果你们能好好地倾听...
...what do you mean by thinking, not about something... ...你们所说的思考是什么意思，不是关于什么的思考...
...not ask you to think about that, what do you mean by thinking? ...我不是要求你们去考虑那一点，而是你们所说的思考是什么意思？
Perhaps this is too complex. 或许这太复杂了。
You go to a class, there the educator tells you... 你们去上课，有教师会告诉你...
...'Now let's study mathematics'. ...“现在我们来学习数学”。
Probably you don't like that subject... 可能，你并不喜欢那个科目...
...mind you, you have to study it. ...提醒你，你必须要学习它。
Now, you are learning from that book... 于是，你从书本上学习...
...and what the professor, your educator tells you... ...以及你的教授，你的教师告诉你的事情...
...so you memorise. Right? ...所以你记忆。对吗？
Am I saying something not right? 我正在讲的事情有什么不对吗？
You memorise, that is... 你记忆，那就是说...
...you repeat over and over and over again... ...你一遍一遍又一遍的重复...
...till it becomes part of your brain. ...直到那变成你大脑的一部分。
Right? 对吗？
So, you memorise, don't you? 所以，你记忆，是吗？
You don't know about physics, but you learn about it... 你不了解物理，但是你学习它...
...that is, you memorise. ...那就是说，你记忆它。
You memorise your name. Right? 你记住你的姓名。对吗？
Because you have repeated very, very, very often... 因为你已经重复了很多，很多，很多次...
...my name is Smith, or Mr Rao, or Mr K. ...我的名字是史密斯，或者饶先生，或者克先生。
Right? 对吗？
So, our learning is memorising. Right? 所以，我们的学习就是记忆。对吗？
Are you... Do you agree to this? 你们是...你们同意这一点吗？
Our learning in a school, in a college, in a university... 我们在学校的学习，学院里的学习，大学里的学习...
...is all the time memorising. ...一直都是在记忆。
I won't go into the whole subject of it... 我不会深入探讨这整个话题...
...because it is very complex, I won't put you through that. ...因为它非常的复杂，我不会让你们去经历那样的过程。
Now, you memorise in order to act skilfully. 那么，你记忆是为了能够技巧熟练地行动。
Right? 对吗？
If you're a lawyer, you memorise... 如果你是个律师，你记忆...
...all the previous incidents, judgements, and so on... ...所有以往的案例，判决，等等...
...and then you become a lawyer, and so on. ...然后你成为一名律师，等等。
A doctor, he must practise ten years, learn... 一名医生，他必须要实践十年的时间，学习...
...then become an internee, and so on and so on. ...然后成为一名实习医生，等等，等等。
It may take 15 years to be a really first-class doctor... 要成为一名真正的一流的医生可能要花费15年的时间...
...or a surgeon, or a scientist, and so on. ...或者成为一名外科医生，或者科学家，等等。
So, what is happening to your brain? 那么，你的大脑发生着什么变化？
Tell me, don't go to sleep. 告诉我，不要睡着了。
What is happening to your brain... 你的大脑发生了什么变化...
...during those ten years or during those five years? ...在那十年的时间里或者在那五年的时间里？
S: Your brain is getting filled up. 学：你的大脑在被填满。
K: Filled. Filled with what? 克：填满。被什么填满？
S: With information, sir. 学：被信息，先生。
With information about what you are doing. 被那些你所做的事情的信息填满了。
K: Yes, your brain is being filled with a lot of information. Right? 克：是的，你的大脑被大量的信息填满了。对吗？
S: And knowledge. K: And knowledge. 学：还有知识。克：还有知识。
What do you mean by that word 'knowledge'? 你所说的“知识”那个词是什么意思？
S: Information about the topic. 学：关于那个题目的信息。
K: Yes, information about a certain topic... 克：是的，关于某个题目的信息...
...a certain subject, and your brain is filled with that. ...某个题目，于是你的大脑充满了那些信息。
Right? 对吗？
I am a PhD, I know how... etc., etc. 我是一个博士，我知道如何做...等等，等等。
Right? 对吗？
Right, sir? Are you bored? 对吗，先生？你们觉得无聊吗？
It's all right, be bored, go to sleep. 那没关系，无聊吧，睡吧。
I don't mind, it's a nice morning - why shouldn't you go to sleep? 我不介意，这是个美妙的早晨--为什么你不能睡觉呢？
So, your brain contains all that you have learned. 那么，你的大脑包含了所有你已经学到的东西。
Right? 对吗？
Your name, your face, your father, your mother... 你的名字，你的脸孔，你的父亲，你的母亲...
...it's a process of not only recognition, but also accumulation. ...那不但是一个认知的过程，也是一个积累的过程。
Right? You understand my English? 对吗？你理解我说的英语吗？
It is a process of gathering and spending... 那是一个积累和使用的过程...
...what you have gathered. ...使用你们已经积累下来的。
That's you have gathered Sanskrit and you speak that, and so on. 就像你已经积累了梵语的知识然后你讲梵语，等等。
So, your brain is full of memories. 所以，你的大脑充满了记忆。
Right? 对吗？
You know where you live... 你知道你住在哪里...
...you know your father's name, your mother's name... ...你知道你父亲的名字，你母亲的名字...
...you know your brother, so it's filled with information as knowledge. ...你知道你的哥哥，所以你的大脑充满了作为知识的信息。
Right? 对吗？
And you use that knowledge skilfully, or not skilfully... 并且你熟练地使用那些知识，或者不是很熟练...
...you can be a first-class engineer... ...你可能是一名一流的工程师...
...or a rather dull engineer, and so on... ...或者一名相当迟钝的工程师，等等的情况...
Indian administrative... what is it? 印度的行政管理人员...那叫作什么？
S: Service. 学：公务员。
K: Yes, and so on and so on, so on. Right? 克：是的，等等，等等的那些。对吗？
So, you are always living within a circle... 所以，你们总是生活在一个圈子里...
...circle of what you have learned... ...那个你所学到的事物的圈子...
...what you have acquired as information, which becomes knowledge. ...你已经获取的信息，会变成知识。
So your brain contains all that you have acquired... 所以你的大脑包含了所有你所获取的...
...all that you have learned, all that you have experienced. ...所有你所学到的，所有你经历过的。
So that is full of knowledge... 所以它充满了知识...
...absurdities, imaginations, illusions... ...各种谬论，各种想象，各种幻想...
...and this whole thing is me. ...那么这所有一切就是我。
Right? 对吗？
I may think I'm a great man, that's me... 我可能会认为我是个了不起的人，那就是我...
...I may sit very quietly, and that's me. ...我可能会安静地坐着，那也是我。
So, whatever I think and do is out of experience, knowledge. 所以，我所想所做的一切都来自于经验和知识。
Right? 对吗？
And I can imagine I'm God... 而且我可以想象我是上帝...
...or I can imagine I'm a great painter, when I'm not... ...或者我可以想象我是个了不起的画家，其实我并不是...
...or when I'm... you know, and all that. ...或者当我...你们了解的，所有的那一切。
Or, I can have fantasies, that I'm the emperor of India. 或者，我可以发白日梦，认为我是印度的君王。
Right? 对吗？
I can have various fantasies, imaginations... 我可以发各种各样的白日梦，各种想象...
...ideas, illusions, and so on. ...各种想法，各种幻想，等等。
I am all that - fear, pain, suffering, and so on. 我就是所有那一切--恐惧，痛苦，苦难，等等。
I am the - all that accumulation, I am. 我是--所有那些的累积，我正是那样。
Right? 对吗？
Are you clear? Don't agree with me... 你们清楚吗？不要赞同我...
...that's the last thing you should do. ...那是你们最不应该做的事情。
But find out if what we are saying is true or false. 但是请搞清楚我们所说的是真的还是假的。
I can imagine there is God in me. 我可以想象我的内在有一个上帝。
But that may not be true. 但是那可能不是真的。
Right? 对吗？
So, I am this whole bundle of two million years... 所以，我是两百万年积累下来的...
...gathered as me. ...这一切，这成为了我。
Right? 对吗？
And I become very important. 并且我变得非常重要。
S: Why, sir? 学：为什么，先生？
K: Because I am two million years old... 克：因为我已经有两百万年的年纪了...
...I've learnt so much. ...我已经学习了那么多。
That poor chap wandering up there in the garden... 那个在花园里转悠的可怜的家伙...
...doesn't know much, but you know a great deal. ...他不知道很多事情，但是你们知道很多。
You respect those people who have a great deal of knowledge... 你们尊敬那些拥有大量知识的人...
...and you despise those people who are there. ...然而你们轻视那边那些没有知识的人。
Right? 对吗？
So, when you ask, 'Why am I thinking about myself all day long'... 所以，当你问，“为什么我整天总是在考虑我自己”...
...because you have been trained that way... ...因为你们就是被那样训练出来的...
...you have been conditioned that way. ...你们就是那样被局限的。
Society helps you to think about yourself... 社会帮助你去考虑你自己...
...because if you didn't you might not get a job. ...因为如果你不考虑自己你就可能找不到一份工作。
So all the people help each other to think about themselves. 所以，所有的人互相帮助着让每个人都想着他们自己。
Right? 对吗？
You are a Muslim, and you think about Allah. 你是一个穆斯林，那么你想着真主阿拉。
So, you build up all kinds of imaginary... 所以，你构建出各种各样的想象...
...superstitious, illusory stuff, called Maya. ...各种迷信，虚假的事物，称作玛雅。
Right? 对吗？
And there are people who say... 并且有些人会说...
...'I must get away from all this, get away from myself'. ...“我必须脱离这一切，脱离我自己。”
Right? 对吗？
'I must forget myself, I must abandon myself... “我必须忘记我自己，我必须抛弃我自己...
...I must become something totally different from what I am'. ...我必须成为和我自己完全不同的人”。
But it is the same circle repeated over and over again... 但那是在一遍又一遍地重复绕同样的一个圈子...
...because I'm thinking about myself. ...因为我在考虑的是我自己。
'I must meditate for two hours'... “我必须冥想两个小时”...
...which is, I'm thinking about myself, and so on and so on. ...那就是，我在考虑我自己，等等，等等。
And your next question was - what was it? 那么你刚才的下一个问题是--是什么？
S: Why is the mind always cluttered with thought? 学：为什么头脑总是纠缠于思想？
K: Why is the brain so occupied with thought? 克：为什么头脑总是被思想占据？
I explained just now, I see this thing in front of me... 我刚才解释了，我看到眼前的这个事物...
...right? - and I call it microphone. ...对吗？--并且我把它称作麦克风。
Right? 对吗？
But the word 'microphone' is not that. 但是“麦克风”这个词并非那件事物。
I don't know if you see that. 我不知道你们是否明白这一点。
That's very important to see in life... 这是人生当中要看清的一件非常重要的事情...
...very important - that the word is not the thing. ...非常重要--词语并非事物本身。
You understand what I am saying? 你们理解我所说的话吗？
Or you are all nuts? 还是说你们都很糊涂？
It's very important to learn... 那是一件要学习的非常重要的事情...
...that the word is not the thing. ...词语并非事物本身。
The door, the word 'door', is not the actual door. 那扇门，“门”这个字眼，并非真正的门。
S: Sir, why do you say that? K: What? 学：先生，您为什么那么说？克：什么？
S: That the door is not the door. 学：您说门并非是门。
K: Now, you didn't listen. 克：那么，你刚才没有在听。
The word is different from the door. 那个字与门本身是不同的。
Is this too difficult? 这很难理解吗？
Look, my name is K. Right? 听我说，我的名字是克。对吗？
But K is different from the actual. 但是克和实际的我是不同的。
This becomes too difficult, does it? 这变得太难理解了，是吗？
S: Are you trying to say... K: Now just a minute. 学：您是否想说...克：现在，请等一下。
Rishi Valley, the words 'Rishi Valley' is not the actual. 瑞希山谷，“瑞希山谷”这个词语，并非瑞希山谷本身。
Is this difficult? 这很难理解吗？
Why is the girl not... Why aren't you... 为什么那个女孩不是...为什么你不是...
Why don't you understand it? 你们为什么不理解这一点？
The word is not the actual. 词语并非事物本身。
You understand? 你们明白吗？
You, your name is something. Right? 你，你有一个名字。对吗？
That name is not you. 那个名字并不是你。
S: What importance does that have? 学：那有什么重要呢？
K: Tremendous importance. 克：那至关重要。
The word is never the thing. 词语永远都不是事物本身。
I can paint a picture of the Himalayas... 我可以画一张喜马拉雅山的图画...
...but the picture is not the actual. ...但是那张画并非真正的喜马拉雅山。
Right? 对吗？
I can describe New York... 我可以描述纽约...
...but New York is not what I describe. ...但是纽约并非就是我所描述的一切。
I can write about the Gita, or the Bible, or whatever it is... 我可以描写梵歌，或者圣经，或者无论什么...
...but what I write about is not the actual. ...但是我所描写的并非实际事物本身。
I wish you'd get this deep into your brain... 我希望你们能在头脑里深深地理解这一点...
...because it'll help you then to deal with things actually. ...因为那将会帮助你去真正地处理事物本身。
I have pain in my leg - suppose... 我的腿疼--假设...
...that pain is not the word 'pain'. ...那疼痛并非“疼痛”这个词语。
Do you see it? S: I think so. 你们明白这一点吗？学：我想我明白了。
K: I get hurt, a thorn, the pain... 克：我受伤了，被刺到了，很痛...
...the word 'pain' is different from the actual thorn and pain. ...“疼痛”这个词和真正来自于那根刺的疼痛是不同的。
If you once grasp this fact that... 如果你真正掌握了这个事实...
...the symbol is not the real. ...即象征并非真实之物。
Right? 对吗？
Go to a temple, and there is some monstrous figure there... 去一处寺庙，庙里有一座怪异的雕塑...
...and that figure is the symbol of something else. ...而那个雕塑是另外一些事物的象征。
But you worship that symbol. 但是你膜拜那个象征。
Go to a church, and there is the cross... 你去教堂，那里有十字架...
...that's a symbol of something else, but you worship that cross. ...那是另外的事物的象征，但是你膜拜那十字架。
Do you understand all this? 你们明白所有这些吗？
S: Sir, the symbol cannot describe the real thing. 学：先生，象征无法描述真正的事物。
K: Yes, the symbol cannot describe. 克：是的，象征无法描述。
The symbol is not the actual - right? - and so on. 象征并非真正的事物--对吗？--等等的这些。
S: It just helps you identify with the real thing. 学：那只是帮助你识别真正的事物。
It brings to your mind a picture of the real thing. 它给你的头脑带来真正事物的画面。
It brings to your mind an idea of the real thing. 它给你的头脑带来关于真正事物的某个想法。
K: Does it? 克：是那样吗？
Is the idea a fact? 那个想法是事实吗？
The idea I'm going to climb the Himalayas. 那个我想要爬上喜马拉雅山的想法。
The idea is not fact, I'm not climbing it. 那个想法并非事实，我没有在爬山。
S: No, but if you see a picture of the Himalayas... 学：没有，但是如果你看到一张喜马拉雅山的照片...
K: Ah, wait, that again is a symbol. 克：噢，等一下，那也同样是一个象征。
S: Yes, it makes you realise what the Himalayas look like. 学：是的，那会让你意识到喜马拉雅山是什么样子。
K: Yes, but you haven't seen the Himalayas. 克：是的，但是你没有见过喜马拉雅山。
So, the seeing is different from the picture. 所以，真正的看到和那张照片是不同的。
Right? 对吗？
The actual seeing, the Himalayan mountains... 真正的看到喜马拉雅山...
...their valleys, the blue lights of a morning on there... ...那些山谷，那里早晨蓝色的晨光...
...and the snow, is quite different from the picture. ...还有白雪，和照片上是相当不同的。
But we worship the picture. 但是我们崇拜那些照片。
I don't know if you're following all this. 我不知道你们是否能了解这一切。
So, your question is, why do we think about ourselves all the time? 所以，你的问题是，为什么我们总是想着我们自己？
And the other question is, why are our brains filled with thought? 以及另外那个问题，为什么我们的头脑里充满了思想？
Now you ask the older people what they think of it. 现在你来问一下那些年长一些的人们，他们是怎么想的。
There they are, sitting in chairs. 他们在那里，坐在椅子上。
I'll wait, sir, till you ask. 我会等待，先生，直到你们来问。
S: Sir, our brain is like a box, sir, when we're young... 学：先生，我们的大脑像是一个盒子，先生，当你年轻的时候...
...the box is empty, so there are hardly any thoughts... ...那个盒子是空的，所以大脑里没有什么想法...
...when you grow up the box starts getting filled. ...当你长大以后，盒子开始变满了。
K: That's right. You are like an empty bottle, you are saying... 克：正是那样。你就象一只空瓶子，你说的是...
...and as you grow up that bottle gets filled. ...当你长大，瓶子被装满了。
Filled with what? 被什么装满了呢？
S: Thoughts. 学：各种想法。
K: With dirty water, clean water? 克：装满了脏水呢，还是清洁的水？
S: Both. K: Both, that's right. 学：都有。克：都有，非常正确。
Filled with dirty water, and clean water. Right? 装满了脏水和清洁的水。对吗？
You can't mix clean water with the dirty water... 你可以把清洁的水和脏水混合起来...
...then the clean water becomes dirty. ...然后清洁的水就变成脏水了。
That's what you are doing. 那就是你们在做的事情。
So, you asked me to talk about myself. 所以，你们要求我谈论我自己。
I have. 我已经谈过了。
If you could learn, as you learn mathematics... 如果你们能够学习，当你们学习数学的时候...
...whether your mind can ever be quiet, your brain. ...你的头脑是否能够安静下来，你的大脑。
Absolutely quiet. 绝对地安静。
S: Then how do you get pure water, sir? 学：那么要怎么才能获得纯净的水呢，先生？
K: You don't. 克：你无法获得。
He asked, how do you get pure water. 他问，你如何获得纯净的水。
Life doesn't give you pure water, it gives you dirty water... 生活无法给你纯净的水，它给你的是脏水...
...because you have pain, you have sorrow, you have grief... ...因为你有痛苦，你有悲哀，你有伤心的事...
...you're ambitious, you want to be something or other. ...你有野心，你想成为这样或者那样。
That's all dirty water. 那些都是脏水。
S: But sometimes you get happiness, don't you? 学：但是有时候你能获得幸福，不是吗？
K: Yes, sometimes you get happiness. 克：是的，有时候你会获得幸福。
Now what do you mean by that word 'happiness'? 那么，你说的那个词“幸福”是什么意思？
S: When my wish is fulfilled. 学：当我的愿望得到满足的时候。
K: Yes, when your wishes are fulfilled. 克：是的，当你的愿望得到满足的时候。
Right? 对吗？
I want to live comfortably in a big house... 我想要舒服地生活在一个大房子里...
...with lots of servants... ...有一大群佣人...
...and if you can wish, if those wishes... ...并且如果你可以许愿，如果那些愿望...
...can be fulfilled, you are happy. ...可以实现，你就幸福了。
Is that it? 是那样吗？
Suppose they are not fulfilled, you are sad - right? 假设你的愿望没有实现，你就很悲伤--对吗？
...you're unhappy, you're depressed. ...你不幸福，你很抑郁。
So what is the difference between happiness and depression? 所以幸福和抑郁的区别是什么呢？
It's too difficult for you, don't bother. 这对你们来说太困难了，不要费事去想它了。
You understand, sirs, ladies, to me, religious organisations are silly. 你们明白吗，先生们，女士们，对我来说，宗教组织都是愚蠢的。
You understand? 你们明白吗？
Going to church, going to temples, mosques... 去教堂，去寺庙，去清真寺...
...repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat. ...重复，重复，重复，再重复。
What happens when you repeat? 当你在重复的时候，会发生什么事情？
S: You don't find anything new, sir. 学：你不会发现任何新的事物，先生。
K: Therefore will you stop repeating? 克：那么你们会停止重复吗？
S: How do you stop that, sir? 学：怎么才能停止重复呢，先生？
K: Don't ask me how I stop. Will you stop? 克：不要问我如何停止。你会停下来吗？
You stop scratching your head. 你停止挠你的头。
I mean you start scratching, that becomes a habit. Right? 我是说你开始挠头，那变成一个习惯。对吗？
And you can stop it, can't you, by saying, 'I won't do it'. 但是你可以停下来，不是吗，只需要说，“我不会那样做了”。
Right? Right? 对吗？对吗？
Will you do that? 你会那样做吗？
Don't look at somebody else. 不要看别人。
S: It's difficult, sir. 学：那很难，先生。
K: That's right, it's difficult. 克：正是那样，那很难。
So, you'd rather keep on scratching. 所以，你宁愿继续挠头。
Right? 对吗？
S: Sir, can we talk about the existence of god? 学：先生，我们能谈一下神的存在吗？
K: Jesus! 克：天啊！
How do you know if god exists? S: That's what I want to ask. 你如何知道神是否存在？学：那就是我想问的问题。
K: You want to ask... 克：你想问...
...is there god. Right? ...有神吗？是吗？
S: If there is, where is he, and why do we believe in him? 学：如果有神，他在哪，还有我们为什么要信仰他？
K: Where is he, and why do we bother about it? 克：他在哪，还有我们为什么要对那大惊小怪？
S: We want to be secure. K: Yes, sir. 学：我们想要安全。克：是的，先生。
First let me answer her question, will you - do you mind? 首先，让我来回答她的问题，可以吗--你介意吗？
Is there god? Right? 神存在吗？是吗？
What do you think? 你怎么想？
S: I think there might be, but I don't believe in god. 学：我想可能有神，但是我不信仰神。
K: Why, why don't you believe? 克：为什么，你为什么不相信？
S: Because I have never seen, I have just heard about god. 学：因为我从来都没有见过神，我只是听说过神。
K: Go on, tell me. 克：继续，告诉我。
S: It seems to me that god is something like a pillar of support. 学：对我来说，上帝就像一种支柱。
K: What, financial support? 克：什么，经济支援吗？
S: No, a pillar of support. K: You are quite right. 学：不，一种支柱。克：你说很对。
Yes sir, yes sir, but I said financial support was pretty good. 是的先生，是的先生，但是我刚才说的经济支援也相当不错。
That is, you rely, or you seek god when you are depressed... 那就是说，当你抑郁的时候，你依靠，或者寻找神...
...when you are unhappy, when you want something, when you pray. ...还有当你不开心的时候，当你想获得什么的时候，当你祈祷的时候。
Right? 是吗？
Now, how do you find out if there is god, or not? 那么，你要如何弄清楚上帝是否存在，或者不存在呢？
S: When you actually see him, the person. 学：当你真正地看到他的时候，那个人。
When you actually see him. K: Do you actually see him? 当你真的看到他时。克：你真的看到他了吗？
S: No, you find more about him when you see him. 学：没有，当你看到他你就会了解到更多。
You know he exists. 你知道他存在。
K: Do you know the story of two Americans going to heaven? 克：你知道那个两个美国人进天堂的故事吗？
And they wander about in heaven, all over the place... 他们在天堂里转悠，到处转悠...
...for weeks and months, and there is a sign says 'God'. ...转了好几个星期，好几个月，看到有一个牌子上写着“上帝”。
And they go up that path, and one of them says... 于是他们顺着那条路向上走去，其中一个人说...
...'That's too much climb, you go up there and tell me all about it'. ...“这条路太难走了，你上去吧，然后告诉我那里是什么样”。
So he goes up there and comes rushing back... 于是那个人向上走然后狂奔而回...
...'My god, it's a woman!' (Laughter) ...“天啊，那是个女人！”（笑声）
Right? 是吗？
Now, how do you know there is god? 那么，你怎么知道神是存在的？
Because a 100 people say so? 因为有一百个人这么说了吗？
S: Just because a 100 people say that there is god, doesn't mean a thing. 学：只是因为有100个人说神存在，那并不意味着任何事情。
For all you know they might have heard from somebody else. 因为就你所知，他们可能也是从其他人那里听来的。
K: Quite right. So how do you know there is god? 克：非常对。所以你怎么能知道是否有神呢？
S: When you see him. K: Where do you see him? 学：当你见到他的时候。克：你在哪里见到他？
S: Then who created the world? 学：那么是谁创造了这个世界？
K: He asks, if god didn't create the world... 克：他问，如果神没有创造这个世界...
...what do you mean by the world? ...你所说的这个世界是指什么？
You, the trees, the fishes, the water, the frogs... 你，树木，鱼儿，水，青蛙...
...the elephants, the lion, the... ...大象，狮子，其他的...
S: All matter. K: All matter. 学：所有物质。克：所有物质。
That is, all the rocks, the trees, the human beings... 那就是，所有的岩石，树木，人类...
...the valleys, the rivers... ...山谷，河流...
...everything is created, you think, by god. ...所有事物都是被创造出来的，你认为都是由神创造出来的。
S: If it's not god, who else could it be? 学：如果不是神，又可能会是谁呢？
K: If it's not god, he asks, who else could be. 克：如果不是神，他问，又会是谁呢？
S: It could be a form of energy or something. 学：那可能是一种形式的能量或者其他什么。
K: What? S: It could be some form of energy. 克：什么？学：那可能是一种能量形式。
K: How do you know? 克：你怎么知道？
S: I'm just guessing. K: Guessing. 学：我只是猜想。克：猜想。
That's what they're all doing. (Laughter) 那就是他们所有人都在做的事情。（笑声）
And so somebody guesses much more... 所以某个人猜了更多的东西...
...seriously, and says 'There is'. ...很认真地猜，然后说“神是存在的”。
...and then you accept it. ...接着你就接受了。
Suppose you don't accept your tradition... 假设你不接受你的传统...
...that there is god, then what will you do, how will you find out? ...不接受神的存在，那么你要怎么做，你将如何去探索？
That's much more important than believing. Right? 那要比相信更重要。是吗？
Do you agree to that, it's much more important to find out... 你们同意吗，去探索要比相信什么...
...rather than believing. ...重要得多。
Right? Now, will you stop believing? 是吗？那么，你们会停止相信吗？
S: I don't believe in anything. K: No, stop it. 学：我什么都不信仰。克：不，停止它。
Therefore, you are free from certain conclusions that there is god. 那么，你就能够从神是存在的那样的结论中解脱出来。
Right? Will you do that, or you're frightened? 对不对？你们会那样做吗，还是你们很害怕那样做？
No, don't say 'no', we're all frightened people. 不，不要说“不”，我们都是充满恐惧的人。
S: Sir, we are frightened that if we don't believe in god... 学：先生，我们害怕如果我们不信仰神...
...then suppose our mothers and fathers believe in god... ...那么假如我们的妈妈和爸爸信仰神...
...then they might start talking about something... ...那么他们可能会开始谈论一些事情...
K: That's right. 克：正是那样。
S: Sir, since we are children we are brought up to believe in god, sir. 学：先生，因为我们是孩子，我们是在对神的信仰中被抚养长大的，先生。
We start believing that if we don't believe in god... 我们开始相信如果我们不信仰神...
...god will do something bad to us. K: I know. ...神就会对我们做一些可怕的事情。克：我知道。
But first find out why you want to believe in something. 但是首先去探索你为什么想要去信仰些什么。
Don't go to sleep! Why do you want to believe in something? 不要睡觉啦！你们为什么想要信仰些什么？
Does it give you comfort, does it help you... 那给你们带来安慰吗，那会帮助你们吗...
...does it cover up your sorrow, pain, and all that? ...那会掩盖起你们的悲伤，痛苦，还有那一切吗？
That's belief. 那就是信仰。
Why do you believe in all this? 你们为什么要相信这一切？
What's wrong with you? 你们出了什么问题？
S: I think many people, including me... 学：我想很多人，包括我...
...believe because they feel after so many stories... ...相信是因为他们听过很多的故事...
...which so many people have told them about god... ...很多人都在讲关于神...
...helping this person and god helping that person... ...帮助这个人，帮助那个人的各种故事...
...they feel that if they also believe in god... ...他们感到如果他们也信仰神...
...they might also be helped in difficult situations. ...当困难的情形出现时，神可能也会帮助他们。
K: But find out if they have really been helped first. 克：但是首先弄清楚那些人是否真的得到了帮助。
S: I haven't been helped. K: You're too young. 学：我从来没有被神帮助过。克：你还太年轻。
You're too small. 你太小了。
Don't bother about god and belief. 不要费事去考虑神和信仰了。
You see, that's one of our peculiarities... 你们看，那就是我们的怪癖之一...
...that we believe, right away. Right? ...我们相信，立即相信。是吗？
Right? We believe. 是吗？我们相信。
We never find out. 我们从不去弄清楚真相。
Your belief will prevent you from finding out. 你的信仰会阻碍你弄清楚真相。
You understand what I am saying? 你明白我所说的话吗？
S: Sir, you believe when someone close to you believes it, like your mother. 学：先生，当你亲近的人相信，你就会相信，就像你妈妈相信的话。
K: Yes, yes, if your mother believes... 克：是的，是的，如果你的妈妈相信...
...she wants you to believe the same thing. ...她就希望你相信同样的事物。
Right? 是吗？
And you listen to her but you don't have to believe. 那么你听她说，但是你并非必须相信。
S: Sir, some people are frightened that they might be... 学：先生，有些人害怕他们可能会被...
...excommunicated from the religion and they don't want to do that. ...逐出教会，他们不想那样做。
They will be excommunicated from the religion... 他们会被逐出教会的...
...if they don't believe in the god. ...如果他们不信仰神的话。
K: I know, of course. That's playing games. 克：我知道，当然。那是一种游戏罢了。
S: Sir, does god help you, sir? K: Me? 学：先生，神会帮助您吗，先生？克：我？
Are you asking me? 你在问我吗？
Has god helped me? S: No, helped anyone. 神帮助过我吗？学：不，是否帮过任何一个人。
K: You'd better ask them. 克：你最好问他们。
Better ask somebody who says, 'God has helped me'. 最好是问某个说过“上帝帮助过我”的人。
Be careful. If he says it has, what will you do? 但是请小心。如果他说上帝帮过我，你要怎么做？
S: Believe in god. K: Yes, that's all. 学：信仰神。克：是的，就是那样。
Some nut comes along in peculiar clothes, like me... 某个神棍穿着奇特的衣服，像我一样...
...and he says, 'There is god, I know there is god'. Right? ...然后他说，“神是存在的，我知道神是存在的”。是吗？
Will you believe him? 你会相信他吗？
S: No, sir. K: Why? 学：不会，先生。克：为什么？
S: We don't believe unless we see it, sir. 学：除非我看到，否则我不会相信，先生。
S: He's got to prove it. S: There is no proof. 学：他必须要证明给我看。学：那没有什么证据。
K: Too many people talking at once. 克：太多人在同时说话了。
S: You've got to be very convincing. 学：你一定要非常有说服力。
Only then can we believe. 只有那样我们才会相信。
K: You know, have you been to some of the magicians... 克：你知道，你们见过一些魔术师吗...
...some of the conjurers? ...那些变戏法的人？
Have you seen them? S: Yes, sir. 你们见过那样的人吗？学：是的，先生。
K: They will do something before you know what has happened. 克：当你们还不明白发生了什么的时候，他们已经变了戏法。
No, don't go into all that, you're all too small. 不，不要深入那个问题了，你们都太小了。
What time is it? 几点了？
S: Quarter past. K: Nine. 学：过一刻钟了。克：九点。
S: Ten fifteen. K: Ten fifteen. 学：十点十五分。克：十点十五分。
I've got fifteen minutes more? Too bad! 我还有十五分钟的时间？太糟了！
What shall we talk about? 我们该谈些什么呢？
S: Is there a way of thinking without using the past? 学：是否存在一种思考的方式是没有过去介入的？
K: Is there a way of thinking without the past? 克：是否存在一种思考的方式是没有过去的？
Is there a way of thinking... 有没有一种思考的方式...
...without all the memories involved in the past? ...不包含所有过去的记忆？
Right? 对不对？
To answer that question correctly, accurately, impersonally... 要正确地回答那个问题，精确地回答，不带个人色彩地回答...
...you have to go into the whole structure, nature of thought. ...你必须要深入思想的整个结构，本质。
Right? Have you done it? 对不对？你们那样做过吗？
No. Would you like to do it? S: Yes. 没有。你们愿意那样做吗？学：是的。
K: Would you like to listen to it? 克：你们想听吗？
And would you like to follow it up after you have listened to it? 你们愿意在听过以后也那样去行动吗？
S: If it's true. 学：如果那是真的。
K: If it is true. Right? 克：如果那是真的。是吗？
What is the origin, the beginning of thought? 思想的根源，起源是什么？
How does thought arise? 思想是怎么产生的？
S: From the past experiences. 学：从过往的经验当中。
K: So, are you saying that thought has its roots in the past experience? 克：那么，你是在说思想的根源在过往的经验当中吗？
In past experiences, plural. 过去的各种经验，复数。
So you are saying, are you... 所以你是在说，是在说...
...that thought has its roots in experience? ...思想的根源在经验当中吗？
Right? 对不对？
Are you saying 'yes'? S: Yes. 你是在说“是的”吗？学：是的。
K: Be quite sure, don't hesitate. 克：要非常确定，请不要犹豫。
If you had no experience, would you think? 如果你没有经验，你会思考吗？
S: Sir, like I told you, sir... 学：先生，像我对您说过的，先生...
...our thought in the beginning is like an empty box... ...我们的思想最初就像一只空盒子...
...and that has been filled up, sir, and that is all the past. ...随后被填满了，先生，那就是所有的过去。
If there is no past, sir, the box will be forever empty. 如果没有过去，先生，瓶子永远都是空的。
K: Quite right, sir. You come out here. 克：非常对，先生。你到这里来。
You don't mind? Do you mind coming up and sitting here? 你不介意吗？你不介意到这里坐下吗？
S: No, sir. K: Good. 学：不介意，先生。克：很好。
He's saying, the bottle - you are going back to the bottle. 他在说，瓶子--你又回到瓶子那里了。
You know, what going back to the bottle means? 你知道，回到瓶子意味着什么吗？
Drinking. 喝水。
Where do you come from? S: Bangalore. 你从哪里来？学：班加罗尔。
K: Bangalore? Good. 克：班加罗尔？很好。
Do you like it here? S: Yes. 你喜欢这里吗？学：是的。
K: Have you told the teachers you like it here? 克：你告诉过老师们你喜欢这里吗？
S: My teacher asked that. 学：我的老师曾经问过我。
K: It's like an empty bottle... 克：那就像一只空瓶子...
...that has been filled with a lot of experience. ...瓶子里装满了许多的经验。
Right? 是吗？
This is what he says. 这就是他说的。
And, from that experience, from that past... 并且，那些经验，那些过往...
...all the things that have been filled in the bottle... ...所有那些被填进瓶子的事物...
...are memories, are remembrances... ...就是记忆，就是回忆...
...and so the bottle is always moving within itself. ...所以那个瓶子总是围绕自己在打转。
All right, sir, and then what? 好的，先生，接着怎么样呢？
Tell me, go on! 告诉我，继续！
Your brain is like an empty box, empty bottle... 你的大脑像一只空盒子，空的瓶子...
...and filled from childhood with problems. ...从童年起就装满了各种问题。
Right? How to pass, how to read, how to write... 是吗？如何通过考试，如何读书，如何写作...
...and all that stuff, all through life. ...以及所有那些事情，终其一生都如此。
And so your brain, like a bottle, he says, is filled with all that. 所以他说，你的大脑像一个瓶子，装满了那些。
And when the bottle begins to move around, talk... 当那个瓶子开始走来走去的时候，开始讲话的时候...
...the bottle, the contents of the bottle are remembrances... ...那个瓶子，瓶子的内容就是那些回忆...
...knowledge, which then are put into words... ...知识，随之被诉诸语言...
...first thought, then words. Right? ...首先是思想，然后是语言。是吗？
I wonder - don't agree, you don't learn anything if you agree merely. 我想知道--不要赞同我，如果你仅仅是赞同，就什么也学不到。
S: Sir, pretend the box was empty... 学：先生，假如那个瓶子是空的...
...how did you get your first thought? ...你的第一个想法是怎么形成的？
K: How did the first man... 克：两百万年前的第一个人类...
...two million years ago, how did he begin to think? ...是如何开始思考的？
Have you seen that cartoon by a scientist, probably a biologist? 你们有没有看过一个科学家画的，也可能是一个生物学家画的动画片？
You see the man - picture, a cartoon... 你看到一个人类--图画，动画..
...a man who hunts then... hunts, eats, and sleeps. ...一个人他狩猎...狩猎，吃掉猎物，然后睡觉。
Right? Are you listening? 对吗？你们在听吗？
Then the next cartoon is a little more advanced... 接着第二个动画是更进步了一点...
...he doesn't hunt, but he gets somebody else to hunt. ...他不狩猎了，但是他让别人去狩猎。
S: Because he knows it is dangerous. 学：因为他知道那很危险。
K: Yes, yes, yes. 克：是的，是的，是的。
And the third picture is - he doesn't hunt... 第三个画面是--他不狩猎...
...but he's learning how to use instruments, and so on. ...但是他在学习如何使用工具，等等的事情。
So, ultimately, he's become very intellectual. Right? 所以，最终，他变得非常聪明。对吗？
Like you, very intellectual, very... 就像你们，非常聪明，非常...
...like us, you understand? ...就像我们，你们明白吗？
First he begins by hunting and eating... 首先，他开始狩猎和吃掉猎物...
...then by making others hunt and eat... ...然后他让其他人去狩猎和吃掉猎物...
...and third - he's the picture of us. ...第三步--他就变成了我们的样子。
I don't know if you understand all this, it doesn't matter. 我不知道你们是否明白这一切，那没有关系。
So, what makes us behave as we do? 所以，我们为什么会有现在这样的举止呢？
This is too difficult for you. 这对你们来说太难理解了。
Have you ever sat quietly... 你们有没有非常安静地坐过...
...not moving a muscle, not moving your eyes, have you done it? ...肌肉一动不动，眼睛一动不动，你们那样做过吗？
Would you like to do it? 你们想那样做吗？
Sit absolutely quiet. 完完全全安静地坐着。
Will you do it? 你们愿意那样做吗？
S: Sir, but what's the use of that? 学：先生，但是那有什么用呢？
K: Just to control your body, see if you can control your body. 克：就是为了控制你的身体，看你是否能够控制它。
There is no use in anything; if you say... 任何事情都是无用的；如果你说...
...'Why should I eat, what's the use of it?' ...“我为什么要吃饭，那有什么用？”
You die. Right? 你会死去。对吗？
So, will you try and sit very, very quietly. 所以，你们愿意非常，非常安静地坐着吗？
Not blink, not move your eyes. 不要眨眼，不要移动你的眼睛。
Try it, old boy, try it for fun, you know... 试一下，孩子，看看是否有趣，你知道的...
...sit quietly, go on. Sit quietly. ...安静地坐着，继续。安静地坐着。
S: Life is fun, sir? 学：生活很有趣，先生？
K: Move over your leg - put the other leg over there, old boy. 克：移动一下你的腿--把它放在另一条腿上，孩子。
S: Sir, is life fun, sir? 学：先生，生活有趣吗，先生？
K: It all depends. 克：依情况而定。
S: If we get dirty water it's no fun. 学：如果我们有了脏水，生活就无趣了。
If we get clean water, it's fun. 如果我们得到清洁的水，生活就有趣。
K: Clean water is, if you like to call it fun... 克：清洁的水是，如果你愿意称它为有趣...
...but it is mixed all with dirty water. ...但是它和脏水都是混合在一起的。
Right? 对吗？
So, let's see if you will sit quietly for a minute. 那么，让我们看看你是否可以安静地坐一分钟。 |
发表于 2010-4-8 08:58
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