This is the last talk...
这是最后一讲... ...or conversation between two friends.
...或者说最后一次两个朋友间的对话。 We have been talking during the last three talks...
在过去的三次谈话中我们一直在讨论... ...about various aspects of life.
...有关生活的各个方面。 We said how important it is...
我们说过这些有多么重要... ...to have the capacity to doubt...
...拥有质疑的能力... ...to question everything that is taking place in the world...
...去质疑世界上正在发生的每一件事... ...not only externally but also inwardly - all our thoughts...
...不仅仅是外在的还包括内在的 - 我们所有的思想... ...our feelings...
...我们的各种感受... ...if one is aware of one's own illusions...
...如果一个人注意到他自己的幻觉... ...to question all those.
...去质疑所有这些。 Because scepticism without cynicism...
因为不带有犬儒主义色彩的怀疑... ...has a great beneficial effect.
...会让你受益匪浅。 Our brains are programmed for two thousand years...
我们的大脑被程序化了两千余年... ...according to the Christian world, and the Hindus...
...根据基督教的世界，以及印度教... ...and the Buddhists, three to five thousands years.
...和佛教，已有3到5千年。 They have been programmed like a computer...
人们就像电脑一样被程序化... ...Catholics, Americans, Russians...
...天主教徒、美国人、俄国人... ...believers, non-believers...
...信教者、非信教者... ...specialists, psychoanalysts, psychiatrists...
...专家、心理分析学家、精神病学家... ...and so on, scientists, doctors.
...等等，科学家、医生。 We have been programmed, and of that there is no doubt...
我们都被程序化，并且对其没有质疑... ...because this programming has resulted in our being conditioned.
...因为这种程序化已经导致了我们是被禁锢的。 And unless we question, doubt...
除非我们质疑、怀疑... ...have a great deal of sane scepticism...
...拥有强大的理智的怀疑... ...the brain can never be free.
...否则我们的大脑将永远不能自由。 And freedom and to be free are two different things.
解脱和自由是两件不同的事情。 If we may go into all that.
我是否可以谈论下这些。 We are going to talk about various things this morning...
今天上午，我们将要谈论各种不同的事物... ...freedom, desire...
...解脱、欲望... ...and the importance of thought...
...思想的重要性... ...and what is religion...
...什么是宗教... ...upon which most civilisations are based...
...大多数的文明是基于宗教的... ...most cultures are born...
...大多数文化也是来源于... ...out of this religious aspect of life.
...我们生活中宗教的方面。 And also we are going to talk over together...
并且我们将一起来谈论... ...the very complex problem of what is meditation.
...什么是冥想，这个极为复杂的问题。 All this we are going to talk over together this morning.
以上这些就是我们将要在今天早上一起谈论的。 And also, if one may remind you again...
并且，如果我可以重新提醒你们一下... ...if it is not too repetitive...
...假如这不会很罗嗦... ...that this is not in any way entertainment...
...我们谈论的这些绝不是消遣... ...not something you attend for a weekend...
...不是你周末会去参加的什么活动... ...and forget all about it afterwards.
...过后却把它忘得一干二净。 But rather it is concerned with our daily life...
而它是与我们的生活息息相关的... ...which has become so disturbed...
...我们的生活已变得如此扰乱... ...chaotic, uncertain, confused.
...混乱、不确定、迷惑。 And this conditioning...
这种总是带着前提条件的... ...this being programmed...
...总是被程序化的情况... ...one must understand the nature of it...
...每个人都必须理解到它的本质... ...and see whether it is possible at all to be free of it...
...去看看究竟是否可能从中解脱... ...otherwise there can be no creation...
...否则就不会存在创造... ...it will all be invention.
...而将全部是发明。 Invention is totally different from creation.
发明和创造完全不同。 A technical invention is the product of thought.
一项技术上的发明是思想的产物。 Invention along any lines...
各个领域的发明... ...poetic, religious, technological and so on...
...诗歌上的、宗教领域的、技术的等等 ...that's fairly comparatively easy...
...相对来讲都是十分简单的... ...but to find out...
...但想要找出... ...as most religions have tried to find out...
...正如大多数宗教曾试图找出的... ...what is creation...
...什么是创造... ...and to understand the nature of it...
...并且理解它的本质... ...the depth of it, and the beauty of it...
...它的深邃、它的美丽... ...one must understand and be free from being programmed.
...人就必须理解并脱离程序化。 So what is it to be free?
那么什么是自由？ Freedom is from something...
解脱总是指从什么当中解脱... ...freedom from our own misery...
...从我们的痛苦中解脱... ...from our own troubles and problems...
...从我们的烦恼和问题中解脱... ...free to have an economic society...
...自由地拥有一个经济社会... ...that is providing for all human beings...
...这个社会能为所有人类提供他们所需的... ...a society that is not too corrupt and so on.
...一个不那么腐败的社会等等. Freedom from our own bondage...
从我们自己的束缚中解脱... ...from our own peculiar tendencies, opinions and judgements...
...从我们特殊的倾向、看法、判断中解脱... ...in which most of us are entangled.
...我们大多数都被这些束缚着。 Opinion, judgement, conclusion...
看法、判断、结论... ...is so strong with each one of us...
...是如此牢固，对于我们每一个人来说... ...and that prevents perception...
...并且这阻止了觉察... ...seeing clearly what is going on...
...清晰地看到正在发生着什么... ...in the world both externally, outwardly...
...在整个世界，不但包括外在的、表象的... ...and much more so inwardly...
..更重要的是内心之中正在发生什么... ...the whole psychological complexity of one's own life.
...看透彻一个人生命中心理上的整个复杂性。 So what is it to be free...
那么什么是自由... ...not freedom from something...
...不是从某件事物中解脱... ...which then becomes a reaction.
...那只是一种反应。 Freedom from capitalism has lead to totalitarianism...
从资本主义的解脱已经导致了极权主义... ...with all its misery and brutality.
...伴随着它的苦难和残忍。 And freedom from our own particular fears...
以及从我们自身的特定恐惧中解脱... ...is still in the area of a reaction...
...还是在一个反应的范畴内。 ...'Oh, if one had freedom...
...“喔，如果一个人能够... ...from some peculiar urge...
...从某些特定的冲动中解脱... ...or tendency - one could be so great' and so on.
...或者从倾向中解脱 他会多么了不起啊” 等等。 Whereas to be free is something entirely different.
然而自由是一件完全不同的事。 The word 'free' comes from...
“自由”这个词来源于... ...though etymologically it is not very clearly established...
...虽然语义上它不能被清晰的界定... ...free, to be free...
...自由，自由的... ...implies in that word love...
...意味着爱这个字眼... ...amongst other meanings.
...在其他含义之中。 Because we do not really...
因为我们不是真地... ...comprehend in our own life what it is to love.
...理解在我们自身的生命中什么是爱。 And if love is the opposite of hate...
如果爱是和恨对立... ...if love is the opposite of jealousy...
...如果爱和嫉妒对立... ...or if love is the opposite of attachment...
...或者爱和依赖对立... ...every opposite has its roots in its own opposite.
...这种对立往往又植根于它自身的对立面。 Are we understanding this?
我们都理解这点吗？ If one is greedy, as most of us are...
如果一个人贪婪，就像我们大多数人一样... ...and the urge is not to be greedy...
...那么迫切的要求就是不要如此贪婪... ...that contradiction is born out of one's own greed.
...这个矛盾就是诞生于一个人自身的贪婪。 You understand?
你们明白吗？ Is this somewhat clear?
这是否清晰点了？ Look, we are having a conversation together.
注意，我们在一起讨论。 The speaker is not important.
演讲者并不重要。 The speaker really means it, there is no personal worship...
演讲者非常郑重的说，这里不应该有个人崇拜... ...in all this nonsense, all that kind of stuff is stupid.
...那将是毫无意义的事情，诸如此类的东西都是愚蠢的。 But what he said is very, very important...
但他所说的是非常非常重要的... ...to be evaluated with scepticism...
...需要被怀疑的态度来评价... ...not accepting a thing that he says.
...不要随便的接受他所说的。 He is not a professional, expert...
他不是专业人员、专家... ...but together, as two friends...
...而是大家一起，就像两个朋友... ...examining our whole life, one's own life...
...去审视我们整个生命、我们自己的生命... ...which is very complex...
...生命是非常复杂的... ...which demands attention, care, perception, observation...
...这需要注意力、细心、认知、观察... ...and as two friends talking over their life...
...以及两个友人对他们生命的讨论... ...so this is not a lecture, or a sermon.
...而这不是一堂课或者说教。 A lecture...
一堂课... ...the meaning of that word is to inform, to instruct...
...这个词的意思是告知、指导... ...we are not instructing or informing...
...我们不是在告知或者指导... ...as though one knows all about life...
...那样就好像讲话者对生活无所不知... ...and the other fellow doesn't know about it.
...而另外的一个人则对它一无所知... But rather together...
相反地,我们大家一起... ...and it is important to understand...
...并且这十分重要去理解... ...what it means to work, to think together.
...大家一起工作、思考的意义。 Because very few of us think together about anything.
因为几乎没有什么人一起思考过任何事情。 You have got so many opinions, so many judgements, and so on...
你已经有了如此多的看法、判断等等... ...we never think together.
...我们从来不一起思考。 We have opinions about thought...
我们有对思想的看法... ...agreement or disagreement...
...同意或者不同意... ...you are not right, I am right, and so on...
...你是不对的，我是对的，等等... ...but the capacity, the demand...
...但是在一起思考每件事物... ...that thinking together about everything...
...的能力、渴求... ...requires a freedom...
...需要一种自由... ...a sense of affection, care, attention.
...一种慈悲之心，以及关注、注意力。 Otherwise we cannot possibly think together.
否则我们就不可能一起思考。 Then you become a follower, a listener...
于是你就成为了一个跟随者、一个聆听者... ...to be informed, to be instructed, to obey.
...被告知，被教导，去顺从。 We are back then in the old pattern again.
我们也就又回到了旧的模式之中。 Whereas if we could think together...
然而如果我们能一起思考... ...what it is to be free...
...什么是自由... ...not what you think is to be free or the speaker...
...不是你自己或者讲话者认为的自由... ...but together find out.
...而是一起找到答案。 In that togetherness, if I may use that word...
这种在一起的情况下，我是否可以用这个字眼... ...there is no you and the speaker.
...不存在你和演讲者。 There is only the feeling that we are together examining...
只有我们在一起探求的感觉... ...looking sceptically, sanely...
...带有怀疑地、理智地观察... ...into the whole question of one's own...
...有关个人的全部问题... ...and the existence of everything around us.
...以及存在于我们身边的每一件事物。 The word 'free', to be free has many meanings...
“自由”这个词，自由有着很多种意义... ...but mostly free means to be a friend, to love...
...但自由大多数意味着成为朋友、去爱... And love is not something...
爱并不是... ...that thought can evolve...
...思想能够演化出的... ...put together...
...思想能够拼凑出的... ...or can be cultivated.
...又或者能被培育出的事物。 You can cultivate a garden...
你可以培育一个花园... ...you can cultivate anything...
...你能够培育任何事物... ...to plough, to cultivate, to grow.
...耕犁、耕作、栽培。 But love is not something that thought can cultivate.
但是爱不是思想能培育出的事物。 So it is very, very important to understand altogether...
所以这是非常非常重要的对于全面理解... ...very deeply the nature of thought, thinking.
...思想、想法的非常深刻的本质。 If we really could understand that fundamentally...
如果我们真的能从根本上理解这点... ...then we shall be able to resolve most of our problems.
...那么我们就可以解决我们大多数的问题。 Because we have dozens of problems...
因为我们有许多问题... ...of relationship, economic problems, social problems...
...对于关系、经济问题、社会问题... ...problems of every kind...
...各种问题... ...human beings are burdened with them.
...人类被这些问题困扰着。 So not only to understand the nature of freedom from something...
所以不要仅仅理解从某件事物中解脱的本质... ...and to be free...
...而是自由... ...completely free, not from something.
...真正的自由，不是相对任何事物而言。 And is that possible at all...
然而这究竟可能吗... ...when thought is operating all the time?
...当思想一直在运转？ You understand my question?
你明白我的问题吗？ So it is important, isn't it...
这是很重要的，不是么... ...to understand not only verbally...
...去理解不仅仅从字面上... ...or through explanations...
...又或者通过解释... ...the whole movement of thought...
...而是整个思想的运作。 ...because we live by thought...
...因为我们依靠思想生存... ...every action is based on thought...
...每个举动都基于思想之上... ...in every area, in every sector...
...在每个领域、每个方面... ...in every field of our life both outwardly and inwardly...
...我们生活中的每个场合，外在和内在上... ...thought is operating.
...思想都在运作着。 We have given thought tremendous importance.
我们赋予了思想极端的重要性。 And until we unravel the whole structure and nature...
直到我们解开思想的整个结构和本质为止... ...the movement of thought...
...思想的运作... ...merely trying to be free...
...仅仅去试图变得自由... ...which is to cultivate freedom...
...也就是培育出自由... ...becomes impossible.
...这变得不可能。 So we are concerned together as two friends...
那么我们作为两位友人共同来关注... ...what is freedom...
...什么是自由... ...and what is it to be totally free?
...以及什么是完全自由？ And can there be this...
在自由存在的地方... ...sense of wholeness in which there is freedom, free?
...这种完整的感觉是不是可能存在？ See what I am saying?
知道我在说什么了么？ So we are going to go into it.
我们将要谈论它。 As long as we are programmed - Catholic, Protestant...
只要我们的大脑是程序化的- 天主教、新教... ...and the many thousand divisions of Protestantism, or Hinduism...
...以及几千种界分新教、印度教... ...or the Islamic world, and the Buddhist world...
...或者伊斯兰世界，以及佛教世界... ...we are being programmed...
...我们就是被程序化了... ...and as long as we are being programmed...
...并且只要我们是程序化的... ...our whole brain has been programmed for thousands of years...
...我们的整个大脑都已经被程序化几千年了... ...there can be no sense of total freedom.
...那么就不可能有自由的存在。 Is this clear? Are we together in this?
这点清楚了么？我们一起认识到了么？ So is it possible to be free?
那么自由可不可能？ Or must we everlastingly be condemned...
或者我们必须被永久地惩罚着... ...to be programmed like a computer?
...像一台计算机一样被程序化？ Our brain functions...
我们大脑的功能... ...not that the speaker is a professional, brain specialist...
...我并非一个专业人员、一个脑科专家... ...but he has observed many, many...
...而是讲话者观察了很多很多... ...in the course of sixty, seventy years...
...在60、70年之间... ...how people's brains work, observing them.
...人们的大脑如何工作、观察它们。 And also observing one's own brain in operation.
以及同样观察他自己的运转下的大脑。 It has become so mechanical, repetitive...
这已经变得如此呆板、重复... ...its very accumulation of knowledge is limiting it.
...是知识的积累在局限着它。 I wonder if you understand this?
我不知道你们是否理解这点？ When one has a great deal of knowledge...
当一个人拥有大量的知识... ...about various disciplines...
...有关各种不同学科... ...like science, being an expert in surgery...
...譬如科学，成为外科手术专家... ...medicine, telecommunication and so on...
...药物、通信等等... ...our brain actually becomes very small...
...我们的大脑事实上变得非常狭隘... ...it can expand along a particular line...
...它沿着一条特定的道路延伸... ...but that expansion still is limited.
...但是这种扩充已然是被限制的。 I hope you are getting all this.
我希望你们都明白这些。 Now, is it possible to be...
现在，是否可能... ...totally free from all this?
...从这些之中完全自由？ Otherwise we will never know what it is to be creative...
否则我们就永远不能明白什么是有创造性的... ...something totally unthought-of, totally new.
...一件思想完全无法企及的、崭新的事物。 'There is nothing new on the earth'...
“这世上并没有什么新事物”... ...but if we accept that slogan...
...但是如果我们承认这个标语... ...then we will never find out what it is to be creative.
...那么我们将永远不能找到什么是具有创造性... So to understand this programming...
所以要理解这种程序化... ...and why we accept it, one must go...
...以及为什么我们接受它，我们就必须... ...not only as we went yesterday morning...
...不仅仅像我们昨天上午那样... ...into the whole desire to be secure.
...讨论想要得到安全的整个欲望。 We went into that very carefully yesterday morning...
我们昨天上午非常小心地讨论那些... ...we won't go in it again.
...我们不会再一次讨论它。 But also we went into the nature of thought many, many times...
而且我们已经讨论过思想的本质很多很多次... ...but most of us really haven't seen the depth of it...
...但我们的大多数真的没有看到它的深层次... ...the quality of thought...
...思想的品质... ...how limited thought is...
...思想如何被限制... ...though it has done the most extraordinary things...
...虽然它已经做了最为不同寻常的事... ...in the technological world, and also in the psychological world.
...在这科技的领域，以及同样在心理的领域。 But whatever it has done it is still very limited...
但无论它做了什么它还是非常局限的... ...because as we pointed out yesterday...
...因为正如我们昨天所指出的那样... ...there is always the 'more'...
...总会存在着“更多”... ...not only in the technological world...
...不仅仅在科技的领域... ...but also inwardly, the 'more', the 'better'.
...内心也同样，存在着“更多”、“更好”。 The 'more', the 'better' is measurement...
“更多”、“更好”是种衡量... ...and where there is measurement there is limitation.
...并且哪里有衡量哪里就有局限。 This has been one of the problems of religious people.
这已经成为宗教人士的问题之一。 We have gone into this, that is...
我们已经讨论过这点，也就是... ...the Greeks, the ancient Greeks...
...希腊人、古老的希腊人民... ...were concerned with measurement...
...非常关注衡量的问题... ...otherwise we wouldn't have this...
...否则我们今天不会有... ...extraordinary technology in the western world...
...有非比寻常的科技存在于西方世界... ...because the western world has its roots in the ancient Greeks.
...因为西方世界起源于古希腊人的智慧。 And in India, the ancient people said...
在印度，古人说... ...measurement in any form is illusion.
...衡量在任何情况下都是幻觉。 You cannot possibly measure the immeasurable.
你不可能衡量不可衡量的事物。 Do you understand?
你们明白吗？ So there are two contradictory statements...
所以存在两个相互矛盾的陈述... ...technologically you must have measurement...
...技术上，你必须有衡量... ...and psychologically also we have accepted there is measurement...
...心理上，我们也同样接受了衡量的存在... ...as the 'more', the 'better', the 'becoming'.
...像“更多”、“更好”、“变成”。 Whereas the ancient Hindus said...
然而古印度人说... ...'every form of measurement is limitation.'
...“任何形式的衡量都是限制。” And they said that and forgot all about it.
他们曾经这样说但是却已经完全忘记了。 But probably they never perhaps...
但是也许他们从来都不曾忘记... ...the speaker does not know the full extent...
...讲话者并不知道这句话的所有延续的内容... ...of their saying because he doesn't read books...
...因为他不读书... Measurement implies thought.
衡量意味着思想。 Thought is based on knowledge, experience and memory...
思想是基于知识、经验和记忆... ...and knowledge is always limited now and in the future.
...并且知识在现在和未来一直都是有限的。 So thought is always limited.
所以思想是有限的。 It can imagine the immeasurable...
它能够想象不可衡量的事物... ...it can invent all the gods on the earth...
...可以创造世上的上帝... ...all the rituals, all that business...
...所有的仪式、所有的事务... ...which is extraordinarily unreal.
...这些都是非常不真实的。 So thought can never be free...
所以思想永远不能自由... ...or thought can never bring about...
...或者思想永远不能带来... ...a sense of being totally free.
...一种完全自由的感觉。 Right?
对么？ I wonder if you understand this.
我不知道你们是否明白这点。 Because thought itself is limited...
因为思想自身就是有限的... ...therefore whatever it does will still be limited.
...因此不论它做什么仍将是被限制的。 And thought is driven by desire, isn't it?
并且思想被欲望驱使，不是么？ Right?
对么？ So we have to enquire into the nature and the structure of desire.
那么我们需要探究欲望的本质和结构。 The word 'desire' means longing for...
“欲望”这词意味着渴求... ...in expression, which is wanting something more.
...在表述上，是需要更多一些。 The meaning of that word is that...
这个词的意思是... ...longing for, not having - wanting.
...渴求，不是拥有- 想要。 Right?
对么？ So we are going together to understand what is desire.
那么我们将要一起理解什么是欲望。 I do not know if you have observed, not only yourself...
我不知道你们是否观察过，不仅仅你自己... ...but all the people around you...
...以及你周边的人... ...the priests, the hierarchy of priests...
...那些神父、神父统治... ...the popes through history, and all the monks of the world...
...历史上的教皇们、以及世上所有的僧侣... ...and all the human beings in the world...
...还有世上所有的人类... ...being dissatisfied with what they are...
...都不满足于他们当下的样子... ...they want something more...
...他们需要更多的东西... ...longing for something more.
...渴求更多的东西... Aren't you all longing for something more?
你们不都是渴求更多的东西么？ Aren't we all driven by desire...
我们不都是被欲望驱使么... ...to be successful, to have money...
...为了变得成功，为了拥有财富... ...to have position, famous...
...为了获得地位、名誉... ...you know all that business.
...你知道所有这些事。 We are full of desires.
我们充满了欲望。 And what is the relationship...
那这之间的关系是什么... ...between desire and thought?
...在欲望和思想之间？ Right?
对么？ Please ask this question...
请问下这个问题... ...as two friends talking together...
...正如两位朋友在一起讨论... ...the speaker is saying to the friend, look at it...
...演讲者跟他的朋友说看着它... ...he is asking, what is the relationship between the two...
...他在问，这之间的关系是什么... ...desire and thought.
...欲望和思想之间。 Why thought in the religious areas...
为什么在宗教领域人们的想法... ...has insisted on suppression of desire.
...一直都坚持应该压制欲望。 You understand?
你们明白吗？ The monks throughout the world have said...
全世界的僧侣都说过... ...you must have no desire, suppress it.
...你必须没有欲望，压制它。 Or identify that desire with something you call god...
或者向人们所谓的上帝去求证这些欲望... ...your saviour, you know, symbols.
...询问你们的救世主，你知道，询问欲望象征了什么。 Right?
对么？ So desire has an extraordinary importance in our life.
所以欲望在我们的生命中异乎寻常的重要。 And we are not trying to suppress it, or transcend it...
我们不打算压制它或者超越它... ...or identify that desire with something nobler, symbolic...
...又或者为这些欲望找出一些更高尚的象征意义... ...significant, all that stuff, we can wipe out all that.
...更重要的意义，所有这些东西，我们都要一起扫除。 So we are now trying to understand the nature of desire.
我们现在正试图理解欲望的本质。 You might have heard the speaker explain it before...
你之前可能已经听过讲话者对它的解释... ...but forget what he has said before.
...但是忘记他之前所说过的。 We are now afresh...
我现在重新... ...anew, examining this thing.
...全新地，再探究这件事。 And to examine one must be not only...
为了探究，你必须不仅仅... ...free from personal worship...
...摆脱个人崇拜... ...but also there must be freedom from...
...也不要因为... ...the fear of not being without desire.
...心中仍存有欲望而感到恐惧。 You understand?
你们明白吗？ There must be a sense of...
必须存在一种... ...perception in which there is no distortion...
...察觉，这其中没有扰乱... ...no motive, but to observe very closely...
...没有动机，而是非常密切地观察... ...the whole movement of desire.
...欲望的整体运作。 Can we go on with that?
我们可以继续这个问题吗？ We are sitting under a tree, under several trees...
我们正坐在一棵树下，几棵树下... ...and there is the blue sky through the leaves...
...透过树叶还有蓝天... ...and the distant mountains, hills...
...以及遥远的山脉、丘陵... ...the dappled light on all of us...
...我们身上斑驳的阳光... ...and to see all this clearly...
...清晰地看到这些... ...and to see the beauty of all that...
...看到所有的美丽... ...and what is the relationship of beauty to desire?
...那么美和欲望之间的关系是什么？ You understand my question?
你们明白我的问题吗？ So we must also enquire what is beauty?
所以我们必须问什么是美？ Is it all right?
这没问题吧？ What is beauty?
什么是美？ We will wait for the airplane.
我们等待飞机。 We'll wait for the airplane to go by.
我们等待飞机经过。 We are asking, what is beauty?
我们在问，什么是美？ A beautiful poem, a beautiful picture...
一首美丽的诗歌，一幅美丽的画卷... ...a beautiful tree in a solitary field...
...一颗美丽的树伫立在孤独的土地... ...the beauty of a wave...
...波浪的美丽... ...the quiet beauty of a blue sea...
...蓝色海洋的寂静之美... ...and the beauty of great mountains...
...雄伟山脉的美丽... ...the immensity, their dignity...
...它们的宽广、庄严... ...their immovability...
...它们的屹立不动... ...and the line against the blue sky, snow capped.
...蓝天下的轮廓、积雪的山顶。 ...And all the museums in the world...
...世界上所有的博物馆... ...with their ancient sculptures...
...都拥有它们古老的雕刻... ...modern paintings...
...现代的绘画... ...and the classic statuary...
...以及古典的雕像... ...most of us have seen all these...
...我们大多数都看到过这些... ...and we say when we look at them...
...并且我们看到他们时会说... ...how extraordinarily beautiful they are.
...他们是如此的超乎寻常的美丽。 If you have seen the Parthenon in Greece for the first time...
如果你第一次看到希腊的帕提农神殿... ...you almost go on your knees to the beauty of the structure.
...你几乎会为这构造之美而下跪。 And when you see a beautiful man, or a woman, or a child specially...
当你看到一个特别美丽的男子、或者女人呢，又或者一个孩子... ...and you are breathless for a moment...
...你暂时无法呼吸... ...with all the beauty of this world.
...因为这世上所有的美丽。 And does beauty lie in the perceiver?
美是否存在于感知美的这个人之中？ You understand my question?
你们明白我的问题吗？ Is beauty a matter of instruction...
美是可以教授的吗... ...being well informed about all the paintings in the world...
...了然于心世界上所有著名的画作... ...who painted it from modern Picasso...
...画作的作者是谁从现代的毕加索... ...to the ancient Masaccio and so on...
...到古老的马萨乔等等... ...to be well informed, to talk about it...
...对那些了如指掌，并且谈论它... ...you know, play with it, is all that beauty?
...你知道，以此消遣，这些都是美么？ So what is beauty?
那么美是什么？ When do you perceive beauty?
你什么时候感受到美？ In the face, in the mountain...
在面孔中，在山脉中... ...in a tree, or the slip of a moon...
...在树上，或者一牙弯月... ...when the first moon appears...
...当初月升起... ...just a sliver...
...不过细细一牙... ...and the quietness of a still evening...
...宁静之夜的寂静... ...when do you perceive all this?
...你什么时候感觉到所有这些？ And the word 'beauty'...
“美”这个词... ...seems to suffice for most of us, just to say...
...似乎我们大多数人仅仅满足于，称赞一句... ...'How beautiful it is', and go on the next thing.
...“它是多么美”，然后就去做下一件事了。 You see marvellous paintings of Leonardo da Vinci...
你看到美妙绝伦的绘画，达芬奇的... ...or Michelangelo and so on...
...米开朗基罗的等等... ...and then go off and have tea.
...然后离开去喝茶。 Right?
对么？ This is what we generally do.
这就是我们常做的事。 We never really go into the question of what is beauty.
我们从未真地考虑什么是美的问题。 And when do you perceive this sense of immense...
你何时感受到这种无限的感觉... ...immensity and the truth of beauty?
...美的无限和真相？ When you see a great mountain...
当你看到一个广阔山脉... ...with the deep valleys and the snow...
...以及深深的峡谷和雪... ...against the blue sky...
...在蓝天的衬托下... ...aren't you for a second...
...你有没有在那一刻... ...by the dignity and the majesty of the mountain...
...由于山脉的庄严和威严... ...for a second you have forgotten all your problems...
...那一刻你忘记了你所有的问题... ...you have forgotten all your misery...
...你忘记了你所有的痛苦... ...confusion, sorrows, and all the rest of it...
...迷惑、悲伤，以及所有这些... ...and that great immensity of a snow-capped peak...
...那被雪覆盖的山峰的无限宽广... ...drives you away...
...带你离开... ...drives your self away.
...带离了你自身。 Right? Haven't you noticed all this?
对么？你们注意到过这些么？ So beauty can only exist when the self is not.
所以美只有在没有自我的时才存在。 You understand?
你们明白吗？ When the mind, when the brain is not chattering...
当思想，当大脑不再作祟... ...caught in a net of words...
...被一堆词汇束缚... ...when it is really utterly quiet...
...当它真的完全的安静... ...when there is total absence of the 'me'...
...当完全不存在‘自我’的时候... ...the self, the ego, the persona...
...自己、自我、角色... ...then you really see the extraordinary sense of beauty...
...之后你就真地感觉到非凡的美... ...of the world, of the tree and the sky.
...世界的美，树和天空的美。 And what is the relationship of that...
这之间的关系是什么... ...sense of extraordinary beauty to desire?
...那种极其之美的感觉和欲望之间的关系？ We want to capture that beauty...
我们想要获得那份美丽... ...we want to hold it, to live with it...
...我们希望抓住它，和它一起生活... ...to have this sense of utter...
...拥有这种彻底的感觉... ...to be totally free from all the turmoil...
...完全摆脱所有的混乱... ...the noise and the vulgarity of the world.
...世界的噪声和粗俗。 So we must enquire rationally...
所以我们必须理智地问... ...clearly and sanely...
...清晰地、理智的... ...what is desire?
...什么是欲望？ Desire has built a great many things in life...
欲望已经在生活中建造了很多的事物... ...great architecture...
...了不起的建筑... ...and also created wars and destruction and so on.
...并创造了战争和毁灭等等。 So we must really understand this tremendous urge...
所以我们必须真地理解这种巨大的冲动... ...that human beings have...
...这种人类拥有的... ...of which we are slaves.
...奴役着我们的冲动。 When you sit under these trees...
当你们坐在这些树下... ...and look at the beauty of the light...
...看到阳光的美丽... ...although it is somewhat hot unfortunately...
...尽管不幸的是天气有点儿热... ...you have a great sense of sensation, don't you...
...你拥有一种强烈的感知，不是么... ...your senses are awake if you are alert...
...如果你留心你的感知就会唤醒... ...your senses respond to all this.
...你的感知对这些都做着回应。 So the sensation of these trees, the light...
所以对这些树的感知，对阳光... ...the hills, the quietness, awakens sensation.
...群山，宁静的唤醒的感知。 When you see the Pacific as you go along the highway...
当你沿着高速公路看到太平洋的时候... ...can you look at all that water with all your senses?
...你能用你全部的感知看到所有那些水么？ Have you ever done it...
你曾这样做过么... ...with all your senses fully alive, alert?
...用你的感知，完全活力的、灵敏的？ Then in that total sensation...
在那种完全的感知当中... ...with all your senses, not partially...
...用你所有的感触，不是部分的... ...one operating more than the other, but the whole organism...
...一部分运转超过其他部分，而是整个机体... ...the nerves, the whole entity of a human...
...神经，整个人... ...when you give such tremendous attention...
...当你给予如此巨大的注意力时... ...with your sensation...
...用你的感知... ...have you noticed there is no self at all...
...你有没有注意到完全没有了自我... ...there is no me at all?
...根本没有自己的存在？ We will come to that presently.
我们一会儿将谈论这点。 So we live with sensations.
我们随时随地都拥有感知。 It is fairly obvious.
这是显而易见的。 These sensations are taken over by thought...
这些感知被思想替代了... ...and given a shape, or an image.
...然后给出了一个形状或者一个形象。 Right?
对么？ To make it very simple...
举个非常简单的例子... ...you see something beautiful in a shop...
...你看到商店里某件漂亮的东西... ...you go inside...
...然后你进去... ...touch it, contact with it...
...触摸它，接触它... ...feel the quality of the silk, or the material...
...感受丝绸的质地，或者材质... ...there is sensation. Right?
...这是感知。对么？ Then thought comes along and says...
然后思想出现并说... ...'How marvellous if I had it...
...“如果我得到它将多么棒... ...how nice it would look on me.' Right?
...在我戴上它将是多么漂亮。”对么？ When thought creates the image out of the sensation...
当思想籍着感知创造了形象... ...desire is born.
...欲望就诞生了。 Right, have you got it?
对么，你们明白了么？ When thought builds...
当思想通过感知... ...or makes out of that sensation an image...
...建立或者制造出一个形象... ...which is having that beautiful shirt...
...也就是拥有那件漂亮的衬衫... ...or that robe, or that car...
...或者那件长袍，又或者那辆车... ...or that house, or the refrigerator, whatever you want...
...那栋房子、那个冰箱，任何你想要得到的东西... ...then at that moment desire is born.
...那一刻欲望就诞生了。 This is so clear and obvious if one perceives...
这是如此清晰和显而易见如果你时刻察觉... ...every second, the whole movement of it...
...每一秒钟，欲望的全部运作过程... ...which requires great attention, not to miss a thing.
...这要求巨大的注意力，不错过任何一件事。 So the question is...
于是问题就是... ...giving shape to that sensation by thought...
...当思想对那种感知给予了一种形状... ...as an image, as a picture, a pleasure...
...使之成为一个形象、一幅画面、一种快乐... ...at that second desire is born.
...那一刻欲望诞生了。 Now the question is...
现在的问题是... ...can there be a wide interval...
...这之间是否存在一个明显的间隔... ...between sensation and thought...
...在感知和思想之间... ...creating an image of that sensation?
...创造出了感知的一个具象？ You understand? An interval.
你们明白吗？一个间隔。 That requires tremendous attention...
这需要巨大的注意力... ...and where there is attention there is discipline.
...并且哪里有注意力哪里就有纪律。 You understand? Oh, come on, sirs, somebody.
你们明白吗？喔，振作些，先生们，某些人。 Are you all asleep or what?
你们都睡着了吗？还是怎么了？ This is important because...
这是非常重要的因为... ...as we live in conflict perpetually...
...我们永远生活在冲突之中... ...to understand conflict is to see the fact...
...要理解冲突就要观看事实... ...and the conclusion of the fact.
...以及事实的结论。 You understand?
你们明白吗？ The fact, and what we make of that fact.
事实，以及我们从这个事实当中明白了什么？ What we make of that fact is an abstraction called idea, or ideal...
我们从那个事实中获得的是一个叫做想法或者理想的抽象概念... ...and between the fact and the ideal there is always conflict...
...而在事实和理想之间永远存在着冲突... Right?
对么？ Move, sir.
想一想，先生们。 And if we see where there is sensation...
并且当我们认识到只要感知存在... ...which is natural...
...感知是自然的... ...which is healthy, clear, unless one is totally paralysed...
...是健康的、清晰的、除非你已经完全失去了感知的能力... ...and thought giving shape to that sensation, the image it represents...
...思想就会对那种感知给出一种形象，描述感知的形象... ...if these two can be kept apart for a while...
...如果这两件事物可以被分开一会儿... ...to keep them apart requires great attention.
...要分开他们需要巨大的注意力。 Right?
对么？ And so there is never a suppression of desire...
所以永远不要有对欲望的压制... ...but watchfulness of desire.
...而是对欲望的观察。 I wonder if you understand this.
我不知道你们明白这点么。 Because if you suppress it, it then becomes a conflict.
因为你如果压制它，它就会变成冲突。 If you say, 'I will transcend desire'...
如果你说，“我将要超越欲望”... ...that becomes also a means of conflict.
...那就会变成同样的一种冲突。 Whereas if there is great attention and watchfulness...
然而如果存有巨大的注意力和观察力... ...how thought shapes sensation...
...思想怎么把感知形象化... ...then that attention, that watchfulness...
...之后注意力、观察力... ...has its own intelligence...
...就会有它自己的智慧... ...and when it is necessary...
...当必要的时候... ...you go into the shop and buy it, and get on with it...
...你进到商店并购买它，之后穿上它... ...but not make conflict about it. You understand?
...但不会因它引起冲突。你们明白么？ If you understand some of it at least...
如果你至少明白其中的一部分... ...because this is really important to understand all this...
...因为这对于理解所有这些真的很重要... ...whether man can live without conflict on this beautiful earth.
...人类是否能够没有冲突地生活在这美丽的地球上。 We live with conflict all the days of our lives...
我们生活在每天充满冲突的日子当中... ...from the most ancient of times until now...
...从最久远的时代到今天为止... ...it is our heritage, to live with conflict...
...生活在冲突之中是我们的传统... ...not only externally as war and so on...
...不仅仅是外在的，比如战争等等... ...but also much more inwardly...
...还同样是内心的... ...conflict with each other...
...我们彼此起冲突... ...conflict in our relationship with each other...
...在和每个人的关系中起冲突... ...intimate and so on...
...亲密的人等等... ...whether this conflict can ever end...
...冲突是否能够停止... ...so that the brain is totally free.
...这样大脑才会是完全自由的。 And that is why it is important to understand the nature of desire...
这就是为什么理解欲望的本身是重要的... ...and the nature of this sense of immense beauty of life...
...以及理解这种感觉的本质、生活的无限美好... ...of this earth.
...理解这个地球。 Then we also should go into the question of what is love.
接着我们同样要进入什么是爱的问题。 Don't let's become sentimental about it...
我们不要为此变得伤感... ...or romantic...
...或者浪漫... ...but when we say, 'I love you'...
...当我们说，“我爱你”... ...what do we mean by that?
...我们这么说是什么意思？ When a man, or a woman says to the man, or the man says to the woman...
当一个男人，或者女人对男人说，或者男人对女人说... ...or friends say to each other, 'I love you', what does that mean?
...或者朋友对彼此说，“我爱你”，这意味着什么？ There is the love of a book, love of a poem...
有对一本书的喜爱，对一首诗的喜爱... ...love of sports...
...热爱运动... ...love of sex...
...喜欢性... ...I love to be famous.
...我喜欢变得知名。 We use this word so easily.
我们太轻易的用这个词了。 But we have never, apparently...
但我们从未，很明显... ...gone into the full meaning of it...
...理解它的全部意义... ...what is it to love?
...爱是什么？ Love, apparently, has become another means of conflict...
爱，很明显，已经变成另一种意义上的冲突... ...one loves one's wife...
...一个人爱他的妻子... ...and there is conflict, quarrels, jealousy...
...这就有了冲突、争吵、嫉妒... ...antagonism, divorce, and all the pain of that relationship...
...对抗、离婚，以及所有因关系带来的痛苦... ...and the pleasure of it too.
...关系带来的快乐也同样。 So we should go into this question very carefully...
所以我们应该谨慎地讨论这个问题... ...because that may the solution of all our problems...
...因为那可能是解决我们所有问题的根源... ...it may be the one thing...
...它可能就是关键... ...when we understand...
...当我们明白... ...whether it is in the brain or outside the brain.
...它是在大脑内还是在大脑之外。 Do you understand my question?
你们明白我的问题吗？ Whether love is contained in the brain as thought...
爱是否和思想一样包含在大脑之中... ...anxiety, pain, depression, fear, loneliness...
...焦虑、痛苦、沮丧、恐惧、孤独... ...the whole content of our consciousness.
...我们的意识的全部内容。 Is love part of that consciousness? You understand?
爱是意识的一部分么？你们明白么？ Oh, come on, sirs.
喔，注意了，先生们。 Or it is outside, totally...
又或者它是在意识之外的，完全... ...outside consciousness, outside the brain.
...在意识之外的，在大脑之外。 Probably we have never asked these questions even.
我们可能甚至从未问过这样的问题。 One hopes you will not mind asking these questions.
讲话者希望你们不要介意他问这些问题。 So what is love as we know it?
那么我们都知道的爱究竟是什么？ Love brings a great deal of conflict in our life...
爱给我们的生活带来了大量的冲突... ...a great deal of pleasure...
...大量的快乐... ...a great deal of anxiety, fear...
...大量的焦虑、恐惧... ...jealousy, envy.
...嫉妒、羡慕。 Don't you know all this?
你们都知道这些，不是么？ So is desire love?
那么欲望是不是爱？ Is pleasure love?
快乐是不是爱？ Is love in the realm or in the field of thought?
爱是否在思想的范畴之内？ And apparently for most of us it is in that field...
很明显对于我们大多数而言它在其中... ...conflict, pain, anxiety, and thought.
...冲突、痛苦、焦虑，以及思想。 And to understand what love is...
要想明白什么是爱... ...not understand, you know...
...不是理解，你知道... ...have the depth of it, the greatness of it...
...深刻地存在于爱中，它的伟大... ...the flame of it, the beauty of it...
...它的热情、它的美... ...how can there be jealousy...
...怎么还会有嫉妒... ...how can there be ambition...
...怎么会有野心... ...aggression, violence?
...侵犯和暴力？ And can one be free completely of all these things?
一个人能否完全摆脱所有这些事情？ Please do ask this question.
请问问这个问题。 Where there is love, then do what you will, it will be right action...
当爱存在时，做你想做的事，它将是正确的行为... ...it will never bring conflict in one's life.
...它永远不会给一个人的生活带来冲突。 So it is important to see...
所以看到这点很重要... ...that jealousy, antagonism, conflict...
...那就是嫉妒、敌对、冲突... ...and all the pain of relationship...
...以及所有关系中的痛苦... ...has no place in love, where there is love.
...在爱中不存在，当爱存在时。 And can one be free of all that...
一个人可以摆脱这些么？ ...not tomorrow, now?
...不是明天，而是这个当下？ You understand my question?
你们明白我的问题吗？ Because as we pointed out yesterday...
因为就像我们昨天指出的那样... ...time which is the past...
...时间即过去... ...the present and the future...
...即现在和未来... ...all time is contained in the now.
...所有时间包含在当下这一刻。 We went into it carefully yesterday.
我们昨天细致地讨论了这个问题。 And if we say, 'I will cultivate love', or 'I will try and get rid...
如果我说，“我要培育爱”，或者“我想要试着摆脱... ...of my jealousy' and so on...
...我的嫉妒”等等... ...then when you are trying to be free, trying...
...那么当你试图摆脱的时候，试图... ...then you will never be free.
...那么你就永远不能自由。 Right?
对么？ I wonder if you understand this?
我不知道你们明白了没有？ When you say, 'I will do my best', which is so silly.
当你说，“我要做到最好”，这是如此愚蠢。 Which means that one has really not...
这意味着一个人还没有真地... ...fully perceived the truth...
...完全察觉到真相... ...that all time, the past, the present and the future...
...那就是所有时间，过去、现在和未来... ...are in the now, now, in the present actually.
...都在此刻，现在，事实上就在当下。 Because if you don't do something now...
因为如果你现在不做任何事... ...it will be continued tomorrow...
...明天也将如此... ...the future is in the now. You understand this? Come on!
...未来就是当下。你们明白这点吗？注意了！ So can one put aside completely...
那么一个人能不能完全抛开... ...all the causes of conflict...
...所有冲突的原因... ...which is the self, the 'me'...
...也就是自我，这个“我”... ...so that there is this sense of flame...
...以至于有了热情... ...the greatness of beauty, of love?
...美和爱的伟大? And also we should discuss, if time allows...
如果时间允许,我们同样要讨论... ...we should talk over together, what is religion?
...我们应该一起讨论,什么是宗教？ All the organised religions of the world with their rituals...
世界上所有有组织的宗教以及它们的仪式... ...and their fancy dresses and so on...
...以及他们新奇的服装等等... ...with their symbols, with their making crosses over everything...
...以及它们的象征物，它们对每件事都画十字... ...is all that religion?
...这些就是宗教了么？ The root meaning of that word, etymologically, is not clear...
这个词的根本意思，语义上讲，是不清晰的... ...it has been said, religion is a binding...
...曾经有这种说法，宗教是一种捆绑 ...is a bondage between...
...是一种束缚... ...a bond between man and god, and so on.
...在人和上帝之间的连接，等等。 So when you examine...
所以当你探究... ...and to examine there must be scepticism...
...要想探究就必须有怀疑... ...the questioning of one's faith, one's belief...
...对一个人信仰、信念的质疑... ...otherwise you can't possibly examine...
...否则你就不可能探究... ...find out the truth about religion.
...找到有关宗教的真相。 Most of us live in illusions about religions.
我们大多数人生活在有关宗教的幻觉之中。 We never see that thought has been responsible for all the rituals...
我们从未认清宗教仪式来自我们的思想... ...their dresses and their gods, and their ceremonies, their incense...
...他们的服装和他们的上帝，以及他们的典礼、香薰... ...the whole works are put together by thought.
...所有这些杰作都来自于思想... So what is religion?
那么什么是宗教？ And the thing is important to find out...
找出答案是重要的... ...because man has always from the beginning of time...
因为从一开始，人类就一直... ...has always enquired into this...
...一直探究这个问题 ...is there something more...
...还有没有更多在事物... ...than the mere physical world with all its turmoil...
...在纯粹的物理世界之外，这个混乱的物理世界... ...with all its complexities, struggle, pain, and so on...
...它所有的繁杂、争斗、痛苦等等... ...is there something far beyond all this?
...是否存在超越所有这些的事物？ You are asking that question.
你正在问这个问题。 And somebody comes along and says, 'I know about it...
然后有人过来说，“我对此了解... ...I will tell you all about it'...
...我将告诉你有关它的所有事情”... ...that's how it began...
...这就是人类的宗教如何产生的... ...from the ancient Sumerians...
...从古老的苏美尔人... ...from the ancient Eqyptians, and the ancient Hindus...
...从古埃及人，以及古印度人... ...they said, we will tell you.
...他们说，我们将告诉你。 They became the priests...
他们变成了教士... ...the original people who wrote...
...最初的做撰经... ...read, and so on.
...诵经等类似事情的人。 They became the interpreters of that to man...
他们变成了对人们解释一切的那些人... ...and it became a good profession, like any other profession.
...并且这变为了一种不错的职业就像其他任何职业一样。 And that has continued from time immemorial.
自古以来，这就一直延续下去。 Now to find out what is the religious mind...
现在想要查明什么是宗教的头脑... ...what is the truth of religion...
...什么是宗教的实质... ...one must be free from all authority, of all belief, faith.
...一个人必须摆脱所有权威、所有信仰、信念。 Not belong to a thing.
不从属于任何一件事物。 Right?
对么？ There must be a sense of totally being free.
必须存在一种完全自由的感觉。 Then one can enquire...
然后一个人可以探究... ...or observe, or perceive what is truth...
...或者观察，或者感知什么是真相... ...not the truth or the reality.
...不是事实或现实。 Let's differentiate the two...
让我们区分这两个... ...gosh, a lot of things to explain, aren't there?
...天啊，好多事情要解释，不是么？ I don't know why one has to explain all this.
我不知我为什么要解释这些这些。 I am afraid you are all too learned...
我恐怕你们学过太多... ...you have too much knowledge...
...你们有着太多知识... ...have read too many books, listened to professors and all the rest of it.
...读过太多书，聆听过众多专家以及等等这些。 What is reality?
什么是现实？ Reality is that you are sitting there...
现实是你们正坐在那里... ...and the speaker is up here.
...讲话者站在这里。 The reality is the trees...
现实是这些树... ...the reality is nature...
...现实是自然... ...the birds, the ocean, the whales...
...鸟群、海洋、鲸鱼... ...the beauty of those enormous creatures...
...那些众多创造物的美丽... ...in the deep depth of the sea.
...在海洋的深处。 Reality is what is both externally and inwardly.
现实是外在和内在的结合。 Right?
对么？ Nature is a reality, time is a reality...
自然是现实，时间是现实... ...and also reality is inwardly the illusion...
...内心的幻觉也是现实... ...that you have created and hold on to that...
...你创造并维系的幻觉... ...the symbol, the picture, the idealised picture...
...象征物、景象、理想化的景象... ...however illusory you hold on to that, that is a reality.
...无论这一切是多么的虚幻，你仍然紧抓不放，这就是现实。 Right?
对么？ So reality and truth are two different things.
所以现实和真相是两件不同的事情。 Truth is not a matter of conjecture...
真相不是推测... ...of speculation, of idealisation.
...臆想、设想。 It is not the invention of thought.
它不是思想的发明。 And to find that truth - not to find - for that truth to exist...
要找到真相 - 不是去找 - 因为真相本就存在... ...it has been said you must meditate...
...有人会说，你必须冥想... ...to find that eternal thing...
...才能够找到那永恒的事物... ...which is beyond all measure and beyond all thought...
...它是无法衡量的，它是思想无法企及的... ...beyond all words - you must meditate.
...它是超越所有的言辞 - 你必须冥想。 And they said too...
他们也说过... ...in order to meditate you must follow a system, a method...
...要想冥想，你必须按照一个制度、一种方法... ...and we will tell you what the method and the system is.
...我们会告诉你这方法和制度是什么。 Right?
对么？ The gurus have played upon this theme endlessly, coining money.
那些上师们不停地运用这个概念，谋取暴利。 Right?
对么？ So we are going to enquire not how to meditate...
我们将要探究的不是如何冥想... ...which seems so silly to ask...
...而是要问一个看起来很愚蠢的问题... ...but what is meditation.
...究竟什么是冥想。 Why is it necessary to meditate at all?
究竟冥想为什么是必要的？ Meditation, the meaning of that word is...
冥想，这个词的意思是... ...to ponder over, think over.
...考虑、沉思。 But also it has a deeper meaning: measure...
但它还有更深的意义： 衡量... ...to meditate also means to measure.
...冥想同样意味着衡量。 Now meditation is...
现在所说的冥想是... ...being free completely from measurement...
...完全脱离衡量的... ...measurement being comparison...
...衡量就是对比... ...I am this, I will be that - to compare.
...我是这样，我想成为那样- 去对比。 To live a daily life without a shadow of comparison.
每一天都活在对比的阴影之外。 Have you ever done it? No.
你们曾这样做么？不。 To live like that...
像这样生活... ...never having an example, never a goal...
...永远没有标榜、没有一个目标... ...never an end...
...没有一个终结... ...never having the future...
...不期盼未来... ...which is comparison - I am this, I will be that...
...这些是对比 -我是这样，我要那样... ...to live without becoming, which is comparison.
...活着而不考虑要变成什么，变成就是对比。 When you go to a museum you compare...
当你去展览馆你对比... ...you compare between two materials...
...你对比两种材料... ...one cloth is better than the other cloth...
...一件布料比另一件好... ...you compare one car with another car.
...你对比一辆车和另一辆车。 That's natural, that's necessary.
这是自然的，这是必要的。 But to have this sense of inward comparison all the time...
但心中一直存在这种对比的感觉... ...to be completely free of that.
...一定要从心理的对比中解脱出来。 That is part of meditation.
这就是冥想的一部分。 So the brain then is free from all sense of comparison...
之后大脑就摆脱了所有对比的感觉... ...except where it is necessary, physically...
...除了必要的时候，物理上... ...car, shirt, clothes, and so on.
...汽车、衬衫、衣服等等。 Is this possible?
这可能吗？ Can one live that way, never comparing?
一个人能以这种方式生活么，从来不对比？ See what happens if you don't compare.
观察一下如果你停止对比会发生什么。 There is the end of conflict also. Right?
冲突也就停止了。对么？ So meditation is not a practice...
所以冥想不是一种训练... ...not a system, not repeating a mantra...
...不是一个制度，不是重复一个唱颂... ...you know that word?
...你理解那些唱颂么？ You know the meaning of that word?
你知道它们的意思吗？ No. But you repeat it.
你不知道。但你重复它。 This is a most marvellous country!
这是一个最神奇的国度！ The meaning of that word, mantra, means...
那个词的含义，唱颂的意思是... ...ponder over, not becoming.
...沉思，不去变成。 And also it means end all self-centred activity.
它也意味着结束所有以自我为中心的活动。 The root meaning of that word in Sanskrit...
这个词在梵文里的本意是... ...ponder, consider...
...沉思、思考... ...not becoming, the whole question of becoming.
...不是变成，整个有关变成的问题。 And also it means put away...
它也意味着抛开... ...altogether all self-centred activity.
...所有自我为中心的活动。 And if you are given some words, and you repeat it...
如果你被告知一些词语，接着你重复它... ...you are playing just a game.
...那你只是在玩一个游戏。 It is not worth it.
那是毫无意义的。 And the speaker is not telling you not to do it.
讲话者不是在告诉你们不要这么做。 If you want to do it you will do it, if it pleases you...
如果你想要这么做你就会这么做，如果它令你愉悦... ...but it has no meaning, your repetition...
...但这毫无意义，你的这些重复... ...Ave Maria by the dozen...
...许多遍万福玛利亚... ...or your particular mantra.
...或者你特有的唱颂。 So meditation means to be free from fear...
冥想意味着脱离恐惧... ...from all sense of conflict...
...脱离所有的冲突感... ...which we have been talking about...
...我们已经讨论过... ...and also much more seriously...
...同时也是更为严肃的... ...the ending of thought.
...思想的终结。 Whether thought, which is time, has a stop.
思想，也就是时间是否停止了。 You understand?
你们明白吗？ And so because...
因为... ...if there isn't a sense of being totally free...
...如果没有一种完全自由的感觉存在... ...the brain then becomes limited...
...大脑就会变成被限制的... ...and all its activity will be limited...
...它所有的活动也将是被限制的... ...and the limitless, the timeless can never exist.
...无所限制的、超越时间的就永远不会存在。 So we are asking: can thought, which is of time...
所以我们在问：思想，来自于时间的思想... ...which is time itself, can that stop?
...思想其实就是时间，它能否停止？ Probably you have never asked this question.
可能你从未问过这个问题。 Not you stop it by will...
不是你用意愿去停止它... ...of course, that's silly...
...这当然是愚蠢的... ...you cannot stop by will thought.
...你不可能用意愿来停止思想。 Will is the essence of desire...
意愿是欲望的根源... ...and desire we explained earlier.
...我们之前解释过的欲望。 So is there thought...
那么有没有一种思想... ...coming of its own accord to an end?
...来自于它本身却能终结它自己？ Thought must be used naturally when you drive a car...
思想必须被自然的运用当你驾驶一辆汽车... ...when you go from here to your house, when you cook...
...当你从这里到你家，当你做饭... ...when you wash dishes, and so on...
...当你洗盘子，等等... ...thought must be there.
...思想必须在那儿。 What is the necessity of thought in the psychological world at all?
在心理世界，思想的必要性究竟是什么？ If thought is really understood...
如果思想真地被理解... ...all its activities...
...它所有的活动... ...its beginnings, its origin.
...它的开始、它的起源。 Its origin is experience, knowledge...
它的起源是经验、知识... ...memory stored in the brain...
...记忆在大脑中存储... ...and the reaction to that memory is thought.
...对于记忆的反应就是思想。 All this process is limited...
这期间所有的过程都是受限制的... ...because knowledge in the future or now is limited.
...因为知识在现在或未来之中是受限制的。 When you see, perceive actually the limitation of thought...
当你真地看到、察觉到思想的局限... ...not the imagination of it...
...不是对于思想的想象... ...not the idea of ending...
...不是结束时的想法... ...but actually see for yourself...
...而是真正地，自己去发现... ...that thought, whatever it does...
...思想，无论它做什么... ...both in the technological world and in the psychological world...
...不论在技术层面的世界还是心理层面的世界... ...will always be limited.
...都将是受限制的。 When you see the absolute fact of that...
当你看到这绝对的真相... ...and the necessity of thought in a certain area...
...以及在某一领域内思想的必要性... ...when you give your total attention to that...
...当你全神贯注于此的时候... ...then you will find out for yourself thought can end.
...当你依靠自己发现这一切思想便可以结束。 If you say, 'What then?', then you are lost.
如果你说，“然后呢？”那么你就迷失了。 Then if you say, 'What is there if thought ends...
如果你说，“如果思想结束，那里还有什么... ...is there something more?'
...有没有更多的什么？” You follow how our brain works?
你明白我们大脑是如何运转的吗？ That is, I will see that thought can end...
那就是，我将会看到思想可以结束... ...if you give me something in return.
...如果你给我一些回报。 Right?
对么？ If thought can end you will find out...
如果思想可以结束你将会发现... ...there will be something totally different.
...一些完全不同的事物。 And this is meditation.
这就是冥想。 Not control, not control thought...
不是控制，不是控制思想... ...because the controller is part of thought.
...因为控制者正是思想的一部分。 Right?
对么？ So the controller is playing a game.
所以控制者在玩一个游戏。 So there is always the controller trying to control thought.
所以总会存在一个控制者试图控制思想。 But the controller who is also thought is the controlled.
但是控制者也是思想，即被控制之物。 There is no division between the controller and the controlled...
在控制者和被控之物之间不存在界分... ...right through life, if one can understand this profoundly...
...整个生命之中，如果一个人能够透彻地理解这点... ...you will eliminate altogether conflict.
...你们将共同消除所有的冲突。 Therefore the brain, which has been conditioned, narrowed down...
因此大脑，受限的、禁锢的大脑... ...has lost its tremendous vitality...
...已失去它巨大的活力... ...its great immense capacity.
...它强大的能力。 If one is active that way...
如果一个人像那样行动... ...as you get older and older...
...随着你越来越老... ...it becomes much more active...
...大脑会变得越发敏捷... ...not that you get senile.
...而不是变得衰老。 Do you understand all this?
你们明白这些吗？ So meditation is something...
冥想是... ...to be totally free from all bondage...
...完全摆脱所有束缚的... ...from all measurement, from all conflict.
...摆脱所有衡量，所有冲突。 So the brain becomes quiet, utterly still.
于是大脑变得宁静、完全的寂静。 And that silence, stillness, has its own beauty, its own truth...
那种寂静、宁静拥有它自己的美、自己的真相... ...its absolute sense of immeasurable thing.
...那是一种无法衡量的纯然的感受。 So meditation is not a reward...
所以冥想不是一种回报... ...it is not something that you get illumined...
...它不是你通过练习... ...by practising, which is all so childish.
...就能受到启发的什么东西，那将是非常幼稚的。 So truth is something which is not to be measured...
所以真相是不能衡量的... ...and it has no path to it.
...并且没有通往它的道路。 And that is beauty, that is love.
这就是美，这就是爱。 | 
发表于 2009-11-23 19:36
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