The Turning Point 9, 1981年萨能问答二 第四个问题-关于寻求帮助

Sue

4th QUESTION: I have studied, been to Asia, discussed with people there, I have tried to penetrate beyond the superficiality of religions into something I feel in my bones although I am a logical man, something profoundly mysterious and sacred. And yet I don't seem to apprehend it. Can you help me?

第四个问题：我去亚洲学习过，和那儿的人讨论过，我曾试图识穿宗教的肤浅，想看到那我从骨子里感受到的东西，尽管我是个逻辑理性的人，但是我感觉到有某种极其神秘和神圣的东西存在。但是我似乎无法领会它。你能帮帮我吗？


     It depends with whom you have tried to discuss. Shall we go on with this question? You are not tired?
那得看你曾经试图跟谁讨论这个问题。我们要继续这个问题吗？你们不累吗？


     One wonders why you go to Asia at all, except for trade. Perhaps people who go there for religious purposes are also trading - you give me something, I will give you something. One questions why go to the East at all. Is truth there and not here? Is truth to be found through people, through a guru, through a path, through a system, through a prophet, through a saviour? Or truth has no path? There is a marvellous story in India of a boy who leaves home in search of truth. He goes to various teachers, to various parts of that country, walking endlessly, every teacher asserting something or other. And after many years as an old man he comes back to his house after searching, searching, searching, asking, meditating, taking certain postures, breathing rightly, fasting, no sex, and all that. At the end of the time he comes home to his old house. As he opens the door there it is! The truth is just there. You understand? You might say, "It wouldn't have been there if he hadn't wandered all over the place." That's a cunning remark but you miss the beauty of that story if you don't see that truth is not to be sought after. Truth is not something to be attained, to be experienced, to be held. It is there for those who can see it, but as most of us are everlastingly seeking, moving from one fad to another fad, from one excitement to another excitement, sacrificing - you know all the absurdities that go on, we think that time will help us to come to this. Time will not.

我想知道你究竟为什么去亚洲，除非你去做贸易。也许那些为了宗教目的去那儿的人，也是去做交易了-你给我点东西，我就给你点东西。我质疑你究竟为了什么去东方。真理在那儿而不在这儿吗？真理是要通过别人，通过上师，通过道路，通过体系，通过先知，通过救主去找到吗？还是真理根本无路可循？印度有个绝妙的故事，说一个男孩离家去寻找真理。他去找了各种各样的老师，走遍了国家的许多地方，不停地走，每个老师都向他确认某个东西或者别的什么。过了多年之后，他回到自己家的时候已经变成了一个老人，历经了无尽的寻找，询问，冥想，采用某种姿势，正确地呼吸，苦行，禁欲，所有这些。最后他回家回到他自己的老房子。当他打开门的时候，真理就在那儿！你明白吗？你也许会说，“要是他没有走这一大圈的话，真理就不会出现在那儿。”这是个狡猾的说法，但是如果你没有看到真理是无法追求的，你就错过了这个故事的美。真理不是某样要去获得的东西，去经历的东西，去抱持的东西。对于能看见它的人来说，它就在那儿，但是因为我们大部分人永远在不停地寻找，从一种流行转向另一种流行，从一种刺激转向另一种刺激，牺牲-你知道发生的所有这些荒唐的事情，我们以为时间能帮我们发现这个。时间不能。


     So the question is: I am a logical man, something profoundly mysterious, sacred I feel exists. I cannot apprehend it. I can understand it, I can logically see it, but I cannot have it in my heart, in my mind, in my eyes, in my smile. The questioner says, "Help me". If one may point out something, don't ask for help from anybody, because the whole history of man is in you, the whole travail, the mystery - if there is a mystery. Everything man has struggled, sought, found, denied, illusion, all that is part of your consciousness. When you ask for help, forgive me if I point this out, most respectfully, not cynically, if you ask for help you are asking something from outside, from another. How do you know the other has that quality of truth? Unless you have it you will never know whether he has it or not.

那么问题是：我是个逻辑理性的人，某种极其神秘、神圣的东西，我感觉是存在的。我不能领会它。我能理解它，我能从逻辑上看到它，但是我不能在我的内心，我的心灵，我的眼睛，我的笑容里拥有它。提问者说，“帮帮我。”如果我可以指出一点的话，那就是，不要向任何人寻求帮助，因为整个人类的历史就在你身上，所有的艰苦努力，奥秘-如果有所谓奥秘的话。每件事情人都奋斗过了，寻找过了，发现，否定，幻象，所有这些都是你意识的一部分。如果你寻求帮助，原谅我指出这一点，极其尊敬地指出，而不是冷嘲热讽，如果你寻求帮助，那么你就是在向外要求，向别人要求。你怎么知道别人拥有那真理的品质？你永远不会知道他有没有，除非你自己拥有它。


     So the first thing is, please, I am saying this with great affection, care, please don't ask for help. Then if you do the priests, the gurus, the interpreters, all of them pour on you and you are smothered. Whereas if you look at the problem, the problem is this: man throughout the ages has sought something sacred, something that is not corrupted by time, by slow time, by all the travails of thought. He has sought it, longed for it, sacrificed, tortured himself physically, fasted for weeks, and he has not found it. So somebody comes along and says, "I'll show it to you, I'll help you." Then you are lost. Whereas if you say: is there something sacred? The mystery only exists because it is mysterious, but if you uncover it, it is no longer a mystery. Truth isn't a mystery, it is something far beyond all concept of mystery.

所以首要的是，请注意，我是带着深切的爱和关怀说这些的，请不要寻求帮助。而如果你寻找帮助的话，牧师，上师，诠释者，他们所有人都会向你灌输倾倒，你就窒息了。但是，如果你去看这个问题，问题就是这样：人类世世代代都在寻求神圣的东西，寻找没有被时间，缓慢的时间，被思想的所有痛苦腐败的东西。人寻找过了，向往过了，牺牲，从肉体上折磨自己，苦行数周，但还是没有找到。于是有人走过来说，“我来给你看，我来帮助你。”那么你就迷失了。但是如果你说：有神圣的东西存在吗？奥秘，只有在它神秘的时候才存在，但是如果你揭开了它发现了它，那它就再也不是什么奥秘了。真理不是奥秘，它是远远超越所有奥秘的概念的东西。


     So is it possible for a man - listen to the question first - for a man who has studied a great deal, various aspects of religion, of the East and the West, accumulated a great deal of knowledge both in the scientific world, the Left and the Right, the Marx, etc. etc. read all that. There are lots of people who have read that and their brains are crowded. We used to know an author and he used to say to me that, "I know all the Asiatic religious thought, the Christian thought, 'The Cloud of the Unknown', the various mystics of Europe, and so my brain is full of other people's knowledge. And can I ever experience something totally original?" - you understand? The cry of such a human being who is desperately wanting something - not wanting - seeing something, this is not enough. Then what do they do? They take to drugs hoping to experience that something original. It is not a chemical product that is going to produce that originality.

所以，一个人是否可能-请先听一下问题-对于一个学习了宗教的大量知识和很多方面内容的人，学习东方的西方的宗教，积累了科学界的大量知识，左倾的右倾的，马克思，等等，等等，这些都读过了。有很多人读了这些，他们的大脑拥挤不堪。我们曾经认识一个作家，他曾对我说，“我知道所有亚洲的宗教思想，基督教思想，《未知云》，欧洲的各种神秘主义，所以我的脑子塞满了别人的知识。我还能体会到完全新鲜的东西吗？”-你明白吗？这个拼命想要-不是想要-想看到某些东西的人发出这样迫切的呼声，这还不够。那他们该怎么办？他们嗑药，希望经历些新鲜的东西。化学产品是不可能产生那种独创的新鲜的。


     So, what is one to do? What am I to do - I am asking as though an outsider - I am asking, what am I to do, knowing I am a serious man, I am human, I can laugh, I can shed tears, but I am a serious man. And I have superficially enquired into all the aspects of religion, and I recognise their superficiality, therefore I have discarded them, whether the superficiality of the gurus, the churches, the temples, the mosques, all the preachers in the world, because if I see one actual state of religious aspect of superficiality I have seen the whole lot of them. I don't have to go through them all. So what am I to do? Is there anything to be done? Who is the doer? And what is it that is being done? Are you following all this? Please follow all this, step by step, if you are interested in it. If you can discard all your superficiality with your garlands, pictures, you know, all that nonsense, if you can discard all that and stand alone, because one has to be alone. The word 'alone' means all one. Solitude is one thing, all alone is one. Solitude has in it the quality of loneliness, you can walk alone in the forest and be alone, or you can walk in the forest feeling that you are in solitude. That feeling is totally different from the feeling you are alone. Now what am I to do? I have meditated. I have followed different systems, slightly and I recognize their superficiality. I must tell you another story, if you don't mind.

那么，人该怎么办？我该怎么办-我是作为一个局外人来发问-我问，我该怎么办，知道我是个认真的人，我是个普通人，我会笑，我会流泪，但是我是个认真的人。我已经肤浅地探索过宗教的所有方面，我认识到它们的肤浅，所以我抛弃了它们，不管是肤浅的上师，教堂，寺庙，清真寺，还是世界上所有的传教士，因为如果我看到了在宗教方面的肤浅状态是事实，我就看清了它们的全部肤浅。我不必对所有方面都详细探究。那么我该怎么办？有什么事情要做吗？谁是做事的人？什么又是在做的事？你跟上这些了吗？请跟上，一步步地，如果你感兴趣的话。如果你能抛弃你所有的肤浅，你的花环，画像，你知道所有这些愚蠢行为，如果你把所有这些都抛弃了，独立于世，因为一个人必须要独自一人。“独自”这个词，意味着全靠自己。孤独是一回事，独自一人是另一回事。孤独里包含了寂寞的意思，你可以一个人在森林里散步，一人独处，或者你也可以在森林里散步感觉自己很孤独。那种感觉跟你独立一人的感觉完全不同。那我该怎么办？我冥想过了。我追随过不同的体系，浅尝辄止，我认识到它们的肤浅。我得跟你讲讲另一个故事，如果你不介意的话。


     We were speaking in Bombay, enormous crowd and so on. And the next day a man came to see the speaker. He was an old man, white haired, white beard. He told me the following story: he was one of the important judges in India, an advocat, a judge, highly placed, family, children, respected and all that stuff. And one morning he said to himself: "I pass judgement over others, criminals, swindlers, robbers, business robbers, political robbers and so on. I pass judgement, but I don't know what truth is so how can I pass judgement if I don't know what truth is?" This man who came to see me was telling me. And so he withdrew. That is one of the old traditions in India, highly regarded, respected, he withdrew from his family, went into the forest to meditate. This is the tradition in India still that when a man renounces the world he must be clothed, respected, fed, wherever he wanders in India. It is not an organized society of monks. He is alone. So he withdraws into a forest and he said that for twenty five years he meditated. And after hearing the speaker the other evening he said, "I have come to see you. I have come to say how deeply I have hypnotized myself, how in this hypnosis I have deceived myself." For a man who has meditated for twenty five years, to acknowledge that he has deceived himself - you understand the nature of a human being that says that. Not just these monks.

我们在庞贝讲话，人很多，等等。第二天有个人来见讲话者。他是个老人，白头发，白胡须。他告诉我下面的故事：他曾是印度重要的法官之一，裁决人，法官，有高位，家庭，孩子，受尊重，等等这些东西。有一天早上他对自己说：“我判决别人，罪犯，骗子，强盗，商业强盗，政治强盗，等等。我做出审判，但是我不知道真理是什么，那么，如果我不知道真理是什么，我怎么能做判决呢？”这个来见我的人这么跟我说。所以他退隐了。这是印度的古老传统之一，备受尊崇，他从家庭中退出，进到森林里去冥想。现在这还是印度的传统，如果一个人出世修行，那么他必须被供给衣食，被尊重，不管他在印度的什么地方流浪。这不是一个有组织的僧侣团体。他独自一人。然后退隐到森林里，说自己冥想了二十五年。在他听了讲话者的讲话后，一天晚上他说，“我来见你。我是来跟你说，我多么深重地催眠了我自己，在这种催眠中我是如何欺骗了我自己。”对于一个冥想了二十五年的人来说，承认自己欺骗了自己-你能明白一个人说出这样的话那其中有怎样的含义。不只是那些僧侣。


     So what am I, who have a certain amount of leisure, serious, not following anybody - because if you follow anybody that is the end of it. Please see all this that I am saying. It is the end of your penetration into that which is eternal. You have to be completely a light to yourself, not depend on anybody. Their initiations, their garlands, nobody. Otherwise you cannot be a light to yourself. So I realize I must be a light to myself. I don't follow. I don't do any worship, any ritual, and yet that which is eternal is eluding me. It is not in my breath, in my eyes, in my heart. So what am I to do?

那么，我该怎么办，我有一定的余暇，认真，不追随任何人-因为如果你追随任何人，那就结束了。请看清我说的所有这些。你对那永恒的探索就结束了。你必须完完全全做自己的光，不依靠任何人。他们的建议，他们的花环，不靠任何人。否则你就不能做自己的光。所以我认识到我必须做自己的光。我不追随。我不做任何崇拜，任何仪式，但是那永恒还在躲避我。它不在我的呼吸里，不在我的眼睛里，不在我的心里。那我该怎么办？


     First of all can the brain be free of the centre which is me? You understand my question? Can my brain be free of myself, the self, whether that self is super self, ultra, ultra, ultra super, it is still the self. Is there total dissipation of selfishness, to put it very simply? Selfishness, the self-centre is very cunning - it can think it is escape from all selfishness, from all concern about its own entity, its own becoming, and yet very subtly, deeply it is putting out a tentacle - you understand all this? So one has to discover for oneself whether there can be complete and total freedom from all selfishness, which is all self-centred activity - right? That is meditation. To find out a way of living in this world, without being selfish, self-centred, egotistic activity, egocentric movement. If there is a shadow of that, a movement of that, then you are lost. So one has to be tremendously aware of every movement of thought. That is very easy, don't complicate it. When you are angry, for the moment you do not know even that feeling. But when you examine it you can observe the arising of it - right? The arising of greed, the arising of envy, the arising of ambition, aggression, as it arises to watch it, not at the end of it, as it is arising, as you watch it, it withers away. You understand? So the brain can be aware of the arising of a thought. The awareness of the arising of thought is attention, not to smother it, destroy it, put it away, but just the feeling that - don't you know the feeling of hunger when it arises? Obviously you do. Or your sexual feeling, as it arises to be completely aware of it. So the awareness, the attention of the movement of the 'me', my desire, my ambition, my egotistic pursuit, when one is aware as it arises, it withers away. That is absolutely necessary so that there is not a particle, a shadow of this 'me', because the 'me' is separate. I went into all that. So that is the first thing I have to understand. Not control my body, special breathing, yoga - you know all those - you wash your hands of all those.

首先，头脑能不能摆脱“我”这个中心？你明白我的问题吗？我的头脑能否从我自己中解脱出来，自我，不管这个自我是超我，是超，超，超我，它还是自我。自私可否全然消失，简单直接地？自私，自我中心是非常狡猾的-它能想象自己脱离了所有自私，摆脱了对它自身的存在、自己的变成行为的所有关注-但是隐蔽地深藏地，它还会伸出触角来-你明白所有这些吗？所以一个人得自己去发现是否可能完全从所有自私中彻底解脱出来，自私就是自我中心的活动-对不对？这就是冥想。去发现在这个世界上的生活方式，没有自私，自我中心，自我本位的行为，自我中心的行动。如果有一丝它的阴影，有一丝它的活动，那么你就迷失了。所以一个人必须对思想的每个运动都极其清楚。这很容易，别弄复杂了。你生气的时候，有一瞬间你都不知道那种感觉。但是当你检验它，你能观察到它的升起-对不对？贪婪的升起，嫉妒的升起，野心的升起，攻击性，在它升起的时候看着它，不是在它结束的时候，当它升起时，你看着它，它就萎缩消失了。你明白吗？所以头脑能够觉察到一个思想的升起。对思想升起的知晓是注意力，不是去熄灭它，破坏它，打消它，而仅仅是感觉它-饥饿感升起的时候你难道会不知道？显然你知道。或者你的性感觉，在它升起的时候完全地知晓。那觉察，对“我”的运动的关注，我的欲望，我的野心，我自我中心的追求，在它升起的时候觉察到，它就消失了。这是绝对必要的，这样才能完全没有一丝一毫的“我”，因为“我”是分别的分裂的。这些我都讲过了。所以这是我首先要了解的事情。不控制我的身体，特别的呼吸法，瑜伽-你知道所有这些东西-这些东西你完全洗手不干。


     Then to have a brain that is not partial - right? You understand? That is not acting partially but whole. I do not know if you have gone into this. I am talking so long. I must be brief.
那么就拥有了一个不偏颇的头脑-对不对？你明白吗？不是部分地而是整体地行动。我不知道你是否曾经探询过这些。我说的时间太长了。我得简短点。


     We pointed out the other day that we are functioning not with all our senses, but only partially. The partiality, the narrowness, emphasizes the self - of course. I am not going to go into it in detail, you can see it for yourself. But when you observe the mountain, the trees, the rivers, the blue sky, the person whom you love or whatever it is, with all your senses there is no self. There is no me that is feeling all of it. So that means a brain that is not functioning as a dentist, as a scholar, or a labourer, as a super astronomer, but functioning in the whole of your brain. That can only take place when the brain is completely quiet. So no shadow of self and absolute silence of the mind, quietness, not emptiness - that gives a wrong meaning. Most people's brains are empty anyhow! But to have a brain that is not occupied with anything, including god, meditation, with nothing. Only then the brain is silent, full of vitality and that brain has a great sense of love, compassion, which is intelligence. Right?

前两天我们指出过，我们并没有运用我们所有的知觉来运作，而只是部分地运作。这种偏颇，这种狭隘，强调着自我-当然如此。我不会再详细深入这些了，你能自己看到。但是当你用你所有的知觉观察山脉，树木，河流，蓝天，你爱的人或者不管是什么的时候，那时候没有自我。没有在感觉这一切的我。那意味着头脑不是作为一个牙医，一个学者，或者一个劳工，一个超级天文学家在运作，而是你的整个头脑在运作。这只有在头脑彻底安静的时候才能发生。那么就没有了一丝的自我，就有了心灵的绝对寂静，安宁，不是空无-这个词的意思错了。大部分人的头脑反正是空的！而是拥有一个没有被任何事情占据的头脑，包括上帝，冥想，不被任何东西占据。只有这时头脑才是安静的，充满活力，那头脑拥有深沉巨大的爱，慈悲感，那就是智慧。对不对？