The Turning Point 9, 1981年萨能问答二 第一个问题-关于正确的教育

Sue

SAANEN 2ND QUESTION & ANSWER MEETING 30TH JULY 1981
1981年7月30日 萨能 第二次问答

Again there are many questions. Every day they are piling up and we cannot possibly answer all those questions. It would probably take a couple of months, but I am sure you wouldn't like to sit here, nor I, for a couple of months answering these questions.

这次又有很多问题。每天问题都堆积起来，我们不可能回答所有这些问题。那可能要花几个月，但是我确信你不愿意，我也不愿意坐在这儿几个月来回答这些问题。

    As we said yesterday, the answers are not important, but the questions are. Whether we put those questions seriously or flippantly or casually - if the questions are put seriously, a problem that is really disturbing one's mind and one's heart then those questions are worthwhile answering, or enquiring into those questions. So please we have chosen some of the questions, not according to what we like or dislike but which may be worthwhile discussing, going into generally. And in reading these questions we are together examining, not only the questions but the outcome of those questions and whether it affects our daily life, which is what matters.

如我们昨天所说，答案并不重要，问题才重要。我们是严肃认真地还是轻浮随意地提出这些问题-如果是严肃认真地提出问题，这个问题深深地困扰一个人的头脑和内心，那么这样的问题是值得回答的，或者值得深入探讨这些问题。所以，请注意，我们挑出其中的一些问题，并不是因为我们喜欢或者不喜欢这些问题，而是这些问题总体来说值得讨论和深入。在读这些问题的时候，我们一起来考察，不仅仅要看问题本身，还要查验它们的结果，它们是否影响我们的日常生活，这才是真正重要的。


     1st QUESTION: I have a son whom I dearly love. Can I prevent the world from corrupting him? How can I give him a right education?
第一个问题：我有一个我挚爱的儿子。我是否能够防止这个世界腐蚀他？我要怎样才能给他正确的教育？

     I hope the question interests you.
我希望你感兴趣这个问题。

     They are discovering, the scientists, and those who are concerned with babies and children, that babies are very alert, learn, watchful. And they can know, or realize or sense when the mother is liked or disliked by others. They are testing all this out especially in America. And from the moment he is born, or she is born, the parents are already conditioning him. The parents, their relatives, the people around him, are already shaping his mind, his brain. And so from the moment he is born conditioning takes place. And as he grows older this conditioning is strengthened by the society he lives in, by the parents, by other boys and girls and so on. And in schools, colleges, university - if they are lucky enough to go to universities - the conditioning academically goes on. Knowledge has become extraordinarily important, to act skilfully, to earn a good livelihood in daily life. And most of the parents, educators are concerned that their children, the students, the college graduates and so on, pass academically with high marks. They neglect, both the parents, the educators, totally the whole psychological world of the student. So when we ask, what is right education, is it not, not only academically, to have a good brain, to know the world in which we live, the whole technological development, learn all about it skilfully so that he can have a good job and so on. The parents are concerned that he should quickly marry and settle down. Get a job, with a wife, and screwed down for the rest of his life. That is what the parents are concerned with.

他们发现，科学家们和那些关注婴儿和孩子们的人，发现婴儿是十分机敏的，学习，警觉。他们能知道，或者意识到或者感觉到别人喜欢还是不喜欢母亲。他们从试验中发现了这些，特别是在美国。从他或者她出生的那一刻，父母就已经开始局限他。父母，亲戚，他周围的人，已经开始塑造他的心智，他的头脑。从他出生的那一刻起，局限就发生了。随着他的长大，这些局限，被他身处的社会加强了，被他的父母，被其他的男孩女孩等等加强了。同时，在学校，学院，大学里-如果他们够幸运能上大学的话-学业上的局限继续着。知识变得极其重要，为了技巧娴熟地行动，在日常生活中能够很好地谋生。而大部分的父母，教育者，关心的是他们的孩子，他们的学生，他们的大学毕业生等等，能够以高分通过学业。他们忽略了，包括父母和教育者，完全忽略了学生的整个心理世界。所以当我们问什么是正确的教育，难道不是，不仅在学业上有个好头脑，知道我们身处的这个世界，整个技术的发展，技巧熟练地掌握所有这些，从而他能有个好工作，等等。父母关心的是他能很快结婚安定下来。找一份工作，和太太一起，余生就这么固定下来。这是父母们所关心的东西。


     And society is concerned that he should be a good citizen, accept more or less things as they are, both religiously, politically, economically and status quo should remain. The Conservatists politically on the right only want to conserve, and the Liberals and Labour, left, want to change things. So the battle goes on between the political parties and the poor child who has grown in this chaotic world doesn't quite know what to do, what to think, and slips into something quite easy, which is to have a family, job, and for the rest of one's life for fifty, sixty years go to the office and back and forth. Right? This is what we call education. This is what is happening actually in the world, whether in America, or here or in India or Asia. And apparently the vast majority of human beings throughout the world seem satisfied with things as they are. Or dissatisfied because they have no money, want a better position, more power, money - and when you get money, power, position, the world is quite safe, though there are terrorists whose function is to terrorize.

而社会关心的是，他应该是个好公民，或多或少地接受现状，宗教的，政治的，经济的现状，并且将其维持下去。政治上右倾的保守党只想因循守旧，而左倾的自由党和工党，想要改变。所以政治党派之间的斗争不断，这个生长于这个混乱世界里的可怜孩子，不知道究竟该怎么办，怎么想，然后就陷入了非常容易实现的事情当中，也就是有个家庭，工作，余生的五十年、六十年去办公室上班、下班。对不对？这就我们称为教育的东西。这是在世界上真实发生着的事情，不管是在美国，在这儿还是在印度或者亚洲。而且很显然，世界上的绝大部分人类似乎对事情的现状很满意。或者不满意，因为他们没钱，想要个更好的职位，更多的权力，金钱-当他们取得了金钱、权力、地位，他们的世界就非常安全了，尽管还有以恐怖袭击为职能的恐怖分子。


     Now what is right education? Knowing all this is going on around the child, around the student as he grows up, that the mother and the father are concerned with themselves, with their careers, with their ambitions, with their separate successes, and so where does the child come into all this? Obviously as in Asia, as one has watched, the babies are cuddled, held by the mother closely. They have no nursing homes, nor batteries of children in a hospital. There, being very, very poor, the children have to remain with the mother, there is no Social Security, therefore they must have more children, more children are necessary to earn a livelihood when they are old because there is no Social Security in the East. So the pattern is repeated over and over and over again.

那么，什么是正确的教育？知道了在成长过程中，孩子周围，学生周围发生的这一切，母亲和父亲只关心自己，关心他们的职业生涯，他们的野心，他们各自的成功，那么孩子在这所有一切中还有什么位置？很明显在亚洲，我曾经观察过，婴儿被母亲紧紧拥在身边。他们没有托儿所，医院也没有育儿室。那里，因为非常非常贫穷，孩子们得和母亲待在一起，那里没有社会保障，因此他们必须生育更多的孩子，要更多的孩子是为了在他们老了以后能够有生计能够生活下去，因为在东方没有社会保障。因而这模式反反复复地重复下去。

     Now the questioner asks: the parent loves his child and what is right education? You cannot possibly keep the child at home and educate him because he will meet other children and the group instinct is so strong they will condition him in spite of you. You may talk, urge, point out all the conditioning, the absurdities, the cruelties but the spirit of the gang, the group, the other children have far greater influence as one observes on your particular child. Right? These are all facts. If one is aware of all this, wars, brutality, the emphasis on acquiring knowledge academically and each one wanting to find out a job in which he will be comfortable, give him some assurance, and the whole process of all that is modern education.

现在提问者问：父母爱自己的孩子，而什么是正确的教育？你不可能把孩子留在家里教育他，因为他还是会遇到别的孩子，而从众的本能是那么强烈，他们会局限他，不管你如何影响他。你也许会跟他谈话，努力向他解释，指出所有的局限，荒唐，残忍，但是据我的观察，团伙、群体的精神，以及别的孩子对你的那个孩子的影响要大多了。对不对？这些都是事实。如果你意识到所有这些，战争，残酷，对获取学问知识的强调，每个人都想找份工作，让他感觉舒适，给他某种保证，这整个过程就是现代教育。

     One is quite sure that you know all about this. If you have looked at the world, if you have looked at your own children, at what is happening, this is the pattern, the mode of modern society. Is that right education? Which is: to emphasize and cultivate academic knowledge, technological knowledge, how to be an engineer, psychologist, doctor and so on, and there end. Or the cultivation of the whole of the human being, not only the academic side but also understanding the depth of the psychological world. Is this possible to do in a school - both? Not only attend to the academics but also help the student to understand his whole psychological nature, the conflicts, the confusion, the fears, the anxieties. And if it is a boy, he enters the army, specially in Europe, not in America or England, for two years, trained to kill, prepare for war and the parents say, "I dearly love my child". That is, you are preparing for the child to be ready to kill and be killed. This is modern civilization. They talk about beauty, love, god, and the hierarchical structure of society, all preparing for war. And this has been going on for five, ten thousand years, and we, ordinary citizens, accept all this. And we say, "What can we do?" What can one, or a group of people do when the whole monstrous structure is geared to war? Probably you cannot do anything; but to be aware of this, to be aware that wars are caused by national divisions, racial divisions, economic divisions, communal divisions, divisions brought about by ideals, beliefs and so on, to be aware of all this. And if one is aware, that very awareness is bringing about its own action. It isn't that you have to do something - join a political party, or this or that, but if one is really, deeply concerned, if one really loves one's children. But I am afraid that is not possible because most parents in the world are very selfish. They want to fulfil themselves. You know all that is happening. The woman has to go out and earn money because she wants a better carpet, better refrigerator, or whatever it is, and the husband wants to climb the ladder of success, so they are absorbed in themselves and the child has very little part in their lives. So the educators take them over and condition them to the desired pattern.

我非常确信你知道这一切。如果你看看这个世界，看看你自己的孩子，看看发生着什么，这就是那模式，现代社会的模式。这是正确的教育吗？也就是：强调并培养学问知识，技术知识，如何成为工程师，心理学家，医生，等等，然后就完了。或者应该是，培育一个完整的人，不仅是学术方面，而且了解深层次的整个心理世界。这在学校里可能做到吗-两者都做到？不仅关注学识，而且帮助学生了解自己的整个心理天性，他的冲突，困惑，恐惧和焦虑。如果是个男孩，他得参军，特别是在欧洲，不是在美国或者英国，他得参军两年，训练杀人，准备战争，而他的父母说，“我挚爱我的儿子”。也就是说，你在为自己的孩子做好准备去杀人以及被杀。这就是现代文明。他们谈论美，爱，上帝，而这个社会的整个等级结构，都在为战争作准备。这种事情持续了五千或者一万年，而我们，普通的市民，接受了这一切。于是我们说，“我们能怎么办？”当整个可怖的社会结构都在备战，那么一个人或者一群人该怎么办呢？也许你什么也不能做，但是要晓知这一切，知道是国家、种族的分别导致了战争，还有经济上的、社会上的分别，理想、信仰等等带来的分别，明白这一切。如果你明白这一点，这种明白本身就会产生自己的行动。不是你必须去做什么-加入政治党派，这个或者那个，而是如果你真的深深地关心，如果你真的爱自己的孩子。但是恐怕这不大可能，因为世界上的大多数父母都非常自私。他们想要实现自我。你知道这些都在发生着。女人得出去工作，挣钱，因为她想要一张更好的地毯，一个更好的冰箱，或者不管是什么，而丈夫想要爬上成功的阶梯，所以他们都沉浸于自我实现中，孩子在他们的生活中仅仅占有极少的地位。所以教育者就接管了过来，把他们局限成塑造出想要的模式。


     But being aware of all this, not intellectually, but deep in one's heart, in one's feeling, if one really loves one's child, is it possible to educate him, or have a school where he is educated not only academically but much more psychologically, to understand his whole being, to be free of his own problems, to face the problems and end them, not carry on day after day, day after day. So that demands educators who understand all this, who understand what the world is, what society has become, what the culture of which we are all so very proud, which has become so utterly destructive and an educator who realizes his utter total responsibility to bring about a good human being. We are using the word 'good' in the sense of holistic, or whole human being, not a divided, broken up human being, fragmented and therefore perpetually in conflict with himself. That demands a teacher who understands all this. But unfortunately throughout the world the teachers are the least respected, the least paid. The teachers are the most important people in the world because they are bringing about a new generation of people, therefore they must be respected, paid well, looked after as in the old Asiatic world where the teacher was the most important person in society. Such teachers perhaps do exist in some of the schools in which we are connected, but it is a tremendous task because the parents don't want something whole. Society doesn't want it. So if those who are really concerned with education and the right kind of education, if they can come together, put all their resources into this.

但是，明白这一切，不只是从智识上，而是在一个人的内心深处，深深地感受到这一点，如果你真的爱自己的孩子，那么有没有可能，教育他，或者有一种学校，他在那里受的教育，不只是从学业上，而且更重要的是从心理上，了解他的整个存在，摆脱他自己的问题，面对问题并终结它们，而不是日复一日地背负着它们。所以这要求教育者了解所有这些，了解这个世界是怎样的，社会变成了什么样，我们都引以为荣的文化到底是什么，这文化已经变得极具破坏力，教育者要彻底认识到他的全部责任就是培养好的人类。我们用“好”这个词，意思是完整的，完好无损的人类，而不是分裂的破碎的人类，支离破碎因而永远与自己处于冲突中。这需要教师了解所有这些。但是不幸的是，世界上的所有老师都是最不受尊敬的，薪酬最少的。老师是世界上最重要的人，因为他们在培养新一代的人，因此他们必须被尊重，薪酬丰厚，被照顾好，就像古时候的亚洲世界那样，老师是社会上最重要的人。这样的老师也许在与我们有联系的某些学校里存在，但是这是十分艰巨的任务，因为父母并不想要完整的东西。社会也不想要。所以，那些真正关心教育和正确的教育的人，他们能否聚到一起，把他们所有的资源都投入其中。

     One of the parents in a group discussion said, "Why should I sacrifice myself, give up my drinking, smoking, pot, drugging, for my child?", you understand? So they are not concerned, and so we perpetuate this terrible society in which we live.

一个小组讨论的时候有个父母说，“我为什么要牺牲自己，放弃饮酒，吸烟，美食，嗑药，就为了我的孩子？”，你明白吗？所以他们并不关心，那么我们就将这个我们身处其中的可怕社会永远地持续了下去。

     So right education is the cultivation of the whole of the brain, not part of it. When that cultivation of the whole of the brain comes about there is holistic action in which there is no conflict. And such a human being is a good, compassionate human being. And it is up to you, if you want such a school.

所以，正确的教育是培养完整的头脑，而不是头脑的一部分。当培育完整的头脑得以实现时，就有了完整的行为，其中没有冲突。这样的一个人是一个好的，慈悲的人。而这取决于你，如果你想要这样的一个学校。