THE URGENCY OF CHANGE - 'SUICIDE'/《转变的紧迫性》之“自杀”

Sue

THE URGENCY OF CHANGE - 'SUICIDE'

《转变的紧迫性》之“自杀”

     Questioner: I would like to talk about suicide - not because of any crisis in my own life, nor because I have any reason for suicide, but because the subject is bound to come up when one sees the tragedy of old age - the tragedy of physical disintegration, the breaking up of the body, and the loss of real life in people when this happens. Is there any reason to prolong life when one reaches that state, to go on with the remnants of it? Would it not perhaps be an act of intelligence to recognise when the usefulness of life is over?

发问者：我想谈谈自杀——不是因为我自己生活中有任何危机，也不是我有任何自杀的理由，只是这个主题注定会出现在一个人面前，当他看到了生命衰老的悲剧——身体的崩溃，身体的破坏，当这悲剧发生的时候人们便失去了真正的生命。当一个人到达了这样的处境，还有任何理由延长生命，继续苟延残喘下去吗？当生命的用处已经完结时，意识到这一点难道不可以是一个智慧的行为吗？

     Krishnamurti: If it was intelligence that prompted you to end life that very intelligence would have forbidden your body to deteriorate prematurely.

克：假如是智慧在促使你结束生命，那么这个智慧本身早就应该阻止了你身体的过早退化。

     Questioner: But is there not a moment when even the intelligence of the mind cannot prevent this deterioration? Eventually the body wears out - how does one recognise that time when it comes?

发问者：但是难道没有即使是头脑的智慧也无法阻止退化的时候吗？最终身体耗损殆尽——一个人要怎样才能意识到这个时刻的来临呢？

     Krishnamurti: We ought to go into this rather deeply. There are several things involved in it, aren't there? The deterioration of the body, of the organism, the senility of the mind, and the utter incapacity that breeds resistance. We abuse the body endlessly through custom, taste and negligence. Taste dictates - and the pleasure of it controls and shapes the activity of the organism. When this takes place, the natural intelligence of the body is destroyed. In magazines one sees an extraordinary variety of food, beautifully coloured, appealing to your pleasures of taste, not to what is beneficial for the body.  So from youth onwards you gradually deaden and destroy the instrument which should be highly sensitive, active, functioning like a perfect machine.  That is part of it, and then there is the mind which for twenty, thirty or eighty years has lived in constant battle and resistance. It knows only contradiction and conflict - emotional or intellectual. Every form of conflict is not only a distortion but brings with it destruction. These then are some of the basic inner and outer factors of deterioration - the perpetually self-centred activity with its isolating processes. Naturally there is the physical wearing out of the body as well as the unnatural wearing out. The body loses its capacities and memories, and senility gradually takes over.  You ask, should not such a person commit suicide, take a pill that will put him out? Who is asking the question - the senile, or those who are watching the senility with sorrow, with despair and fear of their own deterioration?

克：关于这点，我们应该相当深入地探讨一下。其中涉及了几个问题，不是吗？身体和器官的退化，心智的衰老，这完全的无能为力滋生了抗拒。我们通过习惯、嗜好和粗心大意无休止地滥用着身体。嗜好以及它带来的快感支配、控制和塑造着有机体的活动。当这些发生的时候，身体自然的智慧就被破坏了。有人在杂志上看到了品种极其丰富的食物，色彩艳丽，吸引着你对味觉快感的诉求，而不管是否有益于你的身体。所以从年轻时起，你就在逐渐地压抑和破坏着身体这具本应像一台完美的机器一样高度敏感、活跃地运作着的仪器。那还只是一部分，还有心智，在二十年，三十年或者八十年内一直处于不间断的斗争和抗拒中。它只知道矛盾和冲突——情绪上的或者理智上的。每种形式的冲突都不仅仅是扭曲，而且还带来了破坏。而这些东西就是导致退化的内在和外在的一些基本因素——退化即是无休止的自我中心活动和自我孤立过程。自然地身体会有物理的磨损，而且也有非自然的磨损。身体失去了它的能力和记忆，年迈就逐渐接手。你问，这样一个人不应该自杀吗，吃片儿药就把他结果了？是谁在问这个问题——是年迈的人，还是正在以悲痛和绝望的心情注视着年迈，心存对自身衰老的恐惧的那些人？

     Questioner: Well, obviously the question from my point of view is motivated by distress at seeing senility in other people, for it has not presumably set in in myself yet. But isn't there also some action of intelligence which sees ahead into a possible breakdown of the body and asks the question whether it is not simply a waste to go on once the organism is no longer capable of intelligent life?

发问者：好吧，显然地从我的观点来看，那个问题是在我看到他人的年迈时候，受悲伤的驱使提出来的，因为年迈大概还没有植入我自己吧。但这其中不也是有一些智慧的行为吗？当预先看到自己的身体可能垮掉时，然后就问这样一个问题，既然有机体再也没能力去过智慧的生活了，它再继续存在下去不就纯粹是一种浪费吗？

     Krishnamurti: Will the doctors allow euthanasia, will the doctors or the government permit the patient to commit suicide?

克：医生允许安乐死吗，医生或者是政府允许病人自杀吗？

     Questioner: That surely is a legal, sociological or in some people's minds, a moral question, but that isn't what we are discussing here, is it? Aren't we asking whether the individual has the right to end his own life, not whether society will permit it?

发问者：当然这是一个法律上、社会学上的问题，或者在某些人心里，这是一个道德问题，但是我们在这里谈的不是这些，不是吗？难道我们不是在问个体是否有权结束自己的生命，而不是社会是否允许？

     Krishnamurti: You are asking whether one has the right to take one's own life - not only when one is senile or has become aware of the approach of senility, but whether it is morally right to commit suicide at any time?

克：你是问，是否一个人有权夺去自己的生命——不仅仅是当他年迈或者意识到接近了年迈的时候，而且是在任何时候进行自杀，这从道德上讲是不是正确的？

     Questioner: I hesitate to bring morality into it because that is a conditioned thing. I was attempting to ask the question on a straight issue of intelligence. Fortunately at the moment the issue does not confront me personally so I am able to look at it, I think, fairly dispassionately; but as an exercise in human intelligence, what is the answer?

发问者：我不想把道德引进来，因为道德是很局限的一件事。我想把这个问题单纯地看作是智慧的问题。幸运的是，这一刻我自己不需要面对这个问题，所以我能够看着它，我认为，是相当的冷静地看着；而把它仅仅作为人类智慧的一个练习，那答案是什么呢？

     Krishnamurti: You are saying, can an intelligent man commit suicide? Is that it?

克: 你是说，一个智慧的人会自杀吗？是这样吗？

     Questioner: Or, can suicide be the action of an intelligent man, given certain circumstances?

发问者：或者，在特定的环境下，自杀可以成为一个智者的行为吗？

     Krishnamurti: It is the same thing. Suicide comes, after all, either from complete despair, brought about through deep frustration, or from insoluble fear, or from the awareness of the meaninglessness of a certain way of living.

克：那是一回事。毕竟结果都是自杀，或者是由于完全的绝望，由于深受挫折，或者来自无法消融的恐惧，或者因为意识到了某种特定的生活方式是毫无意义的。

     Questioner: May I interrupt to say that this is generally so, but I am trying to ask the question outside any motivation. When one arrives at the point of despair then there is a tremendous motive involved and it is hard to separate the emotion from the intelligence; I am trying to stay within the realm of pure intelligence, without emotion.

发问者：我能插一句吗，情形大多确是如此，但是，我想问的问题是在所有动机之外的。当一个人濒临绝望的那一刻，其中就涉及了巨大的动机，而且很难把情感和智慧分开；我想要待在纯粹智慧的领域内，那里没有情感。

     Krishnamurti: You are saying, does intelligence allow any form of suicide? Obviously not.

克：你是说，智慧会允许任何一种形式的自杀吗？显然不会。

     Questioner: Why not?

发问者：为什么不会？

     Krishnamurti: Really one has to understand this word intelligence. Is it intelligence to allow the body to deteriorate through custom, through indulgence, through the cultivation of taste, pleasure and so on? Is that intelligence, is that the action of intelligence?

克：一个人必须要真正地理解智慧这个词。是智慧允许身体衰退的吗，通过习惯，通过沉溺，通过培养嗜好，快感等等？那是智慧吗，那是智慧的行为吗？

     Questioner: No; but if one has arrived at a point in life where there may have been a certain amount of unintelligent use of the body which has not yet had any effect on it, one can't go back and re-live one's life.

发问者：不是；但是如果一个人的生命已经那样了，他也许对身体有过某些不明智的使用，即使身体还没有感觉到任何的影响，可是他再也无法返回去重活一次了。

     Krishnamurti: Therefore, become aware of the destructive nature of the way we live and put an end to it immediately, not at some future date. The act of immediacy in front of danger is an act of sanity, of intelligence; and the postponement as well as the pursuit of pleasure indicate lack of intelligence.

克：因此，要知道我们生活方式的破坏性，并且立即结束它，而不是在将来的某一天再结束。在危险面前立即行动，是明智的，智慧的行动；推迟以及对快感的追求则显示了缺乏智慧。

     Questioner: I see that.

发问者：我知道了。

     Krishnamurti: But don't you also see something quite factual and true, that this isolating process of thought with its self-centred activity is a form of suicide? Isolation is suicide, whether it is the isolation of a nation or of a religious organization, of a family or of a community. You are already caught in that trap which will ultimately lead to suicide.

克：但是你难道没有同时看到某样特别真实和正确的事情，那就是，伴随着自我中心的行为，思想的孤立过程即是某种形式的自杀？孤立就是自杀，无论它是一个国家还是一个宗教组织的孤立，一个家庭或者一个团体的孤立。你已经落入那陷阱中了，这个陷阱最终会导致自杀。

     Questioner: Do you mean the individual or the group?

发问者：你是说一个个体还是一个团体?

     Krishnamurti: The individual as well as the group. You are already caught in the pattern.

克：是个体和团体。你已经陷入在那个模式中了。

     Questioner: Which will ultimately lead to suicide? But everybody doesn't commit suicide!

发问者：那个模式会最终导致自杀？可是并不是每个人都会自杀呀！

     Krishnamurti: Quite right, but the element of the desire to escape is already there - to escape from facing facts, from facing ''what is'', and this escape is a form of suicide.

克：没错，但是想要逃避的渴望已经作为要素存在了——逃离面对事实，逃离面对“实际状况”，这种逃避就是自杀的一种形式。

     Questioner: This, I think, is the crux of what I am trying to ask, because it would seem from what you have just said that suicide is an escape. Obviously it is, ninety-nine times out of a hundred, but can there not also be - and this is my question - can there not also be a suicide that is not an escape, that is not an avoidance of what you call the ''what is'', but is on the contrary a response of intelligence to ''what is''? One can say that many kinds of neurosis are forms of suicide; what I am trying to ask is whether suicide can ever be other than a neurotic response? Cannot it also be the response of facing a fact, of human intelligence acting on an untenable human condition?

发问者：这个，我想，就是我正设法询问的症结，因为从你刚才所说的看起来，自杀就是逃避。显然是的，99%都是，但是难道就不能有——这即是我的问题——难道就不能有一种自杀不是逃避，不是避免你所谓的“实际状况”，而正相反，是智慧应对“实际状况”的反应？可以说自杀的形式多数都是各种神经症；我想问的是，是否自杀可以不是神经质的反应？它就不能是面对事实的反应吗，不能是人的智慧对一种不堪一击的人类处境所做的反应吗？

     Krishnamurti: When you use the words ''intelligence'' and "untenable condition" it is a contradiction. The two are in contradiction.

克：当你用“智慧”和“不堪一击的处境”这些词的时候，这本身就是一种矛盾。这两者是矛盾的。

     Questioner: You have said that if one is facing a precipice, or a deadly snake about to strike, intelligence dictates a certain action, which is an action of avoidance.

发问者：你已经说过了，当一个人面对一个悬崖，或者一条致命的毒蛇就要攻击的时候，智慧支配了某种行动，那种行动就是躲避。

     Krishnamurti: Is it an action of avoidance or an act of intelligence?

克：这是一个逃避的行为还是一个智慧的行为？

     Questioner: Can they not be the same sometimes? If a car comes at me on the highway and I avoid it...

发问者：难道在某个时候它们就不能一样吗？如果公路上一辆车朝我奔来我就躲开它...

     Krishnamurti: That is an act of intelligence.

克:那是一个智慧的行为。

     Questioner: But it is also an act of avoiding the car.

发问者：但同时也是躲避车的行为。

     Krishnamurti: But that is the act of intelligence.

克：但那是一个智慧的行为。

     Questioner: Exactly. Therefore, is there not a corollary in living when the thing confronting you is insoluble and deadly?

发问者：确实。因此，当你在生活中所面对的某件事情是无法解决以及致命的，就不能有同样的一个结果吗?

     Krishnamurti: Then you leave it, as you leave the precipice: step away from it.

克：那你就离开它，就像离开那个悬崖：远离它。

     Questioner: In that case the stepping away implies suicide.

发问者：如果那样的话远离就意味着自杀。

     Krishnamurti: No, the suicide is an act of unintelligence.

克：不是，自杀是一种不明智的行为。

     Questioner: Why?

发问者：为什么？

     Krishnamurti: I am showing it to you.

克：我正把它展示给你。

     Questioner: Are you saying that an act of suicide is categorically, inevitably, a neurotic response to life?

发问者：你是说自杀的行为毫无例外地、不可避免地是一种对生活的神经质反应?

     Krishnamurti: Obviously. It is an act of unintelligence; it is an act which obviously means you have come to a point where you are so completely isolated that you don't see any way out.

克：显然是。它是一种不明智的行为；这种行为显然意味着你已经走到了完全孤立的境地以至于你看不到任何的出路。

     Questioner: But I am trying for the purpose of this discussion to assume that there is no way out of the predicament, that one is not acting out of the motive of avoidance of suffering, that it is not stepping aside from reality.

发问者：但是我想讨论的目的就是假设没有任何出路摆脱困境，人的行为并不是出于躲避受苦的动机，不是避开事实。

     Krishnamurti: Is there in life an occurrence, a relationship, an incident from which you cannot step aside?

克：生活中有这样的事，有某种关系，某个意外是你无法躲开的吗？

     Questioner: Of course, there are many.

发问者：当然，有很多。

     Krishnamurti: Many? But why do you insist that suicide is the only way out?

克：很多？但是为什么你坚持自杀是唯一的出路？

     Questioner: If one has a deadly disease there is no escaping it.

发问者：如果有人得了绝症就没办法逃避了。

     Krishnamurti: Be careful now, be careful of what we are saying. If I have cancer, and it is going to finish me, and the doctor says, ''Well, my friend, you have got to live with it'', what am I to do - commit suicide?

克：现在注意了，注意你说的话。如果我得了癌症，它将结束我的生命，医生说，“好吧，我的朋友，你必须要和它一起生活了”，那么我会做什么——自杀？

     Questioner: Possibly.

发问者：有可能。

     Krishnamurti: We are discussing this theoretically. If I personally had terminal cancer, then I would decide, I would consider what to do. It wouldn't be a theoretical question. I would then find out what was the most intelligent thing to do.

克：我们是从理论上谈论这件事。如果我个人得了晚期癌症，那么我就会决定，我会考虑一下去做什么。它不会是一个理论问题。我那时会找出最具智慧的事去做。

     Questioner: Are you saying that I may not ask this question theoretically, but only if I am actually in that position?

发问者：你是说我不应该从理论上问这个问题，除非我真的处于那种境地?

     Krishnamurti: That is right. Then you will act according to your conditioning, according to your intelligence, according to your way of life. If your way of life has been avoidance and escape, a neurotic business, then obviously you take a neurotic attitude and action. But if you have led a life of real intelligence, in the total meaning of that word, then that intelligence will operate when there is terminal cancer. Then I may put up with it; then I may say that I will live the few more months or years left to me.

克：没错。那时你就会根据你的局限，依据你的智慧，依据你的生活方式做出反应。如果你的生活方式就是逃避和逃跑，神经质之类的，那么显然你就会采取神经质的态度和行为。但是如果你过着真正智慧的生活，活出了那个词全部含义，那么当得了晚期癌症的时候智慧就会运作。那时我也许会接纳它；那时我也许会说我会在好好度过留给我的最后几个月或者几年。

     Questioner: Or you may not say that.

发问者：或者也许你不会那样说。

     Krishnamurti: Or I may not say that; but don't let us say that suicide is inevitable.

克：也许我不会那样说；但是我们也不要说自杀是不可避免的。

     Questioner: I never said that; I asked if under certain stringent circumstances, such as terminal cancer, suicide could possibly be an intelligent response to the situation.

发问者：我从来没那样说；我是问如果在特定的迫切环境下，例如晚期癌症，自杀也许会是一种针对那种状况的智慧的反应。

     Krishnamurti: You see, there is something extraordinary in this; life has brought you great happiness, life has brought you extraordinary beauty, life has brought you great benefits, and you went with it all. Equally, when you were unhappy you went with it, which is part of intelligence: now you come to terminal cancer and you say, ''I cannot bear it any longer, I must put an end to life.'' Why don't you move with it, live with it, find out about it as you go along?

克：你看，这其中有一种非凡的东西；生活带给你巨大的快乐，生活带给你非凡的美，生活带给你巨大的益处，并且你和这一切共处。同样地，当你不高兴的时候你也和它共处，这即是智慧的一部分：现在你得了晚期癌症，然后你说，“我再也无法忍受了，我必须要结束生命。”为什么你不能和它共进，与它一起生活，并在前进中了解它？

     Questioner: In other words, there is no reply to this question until you are in the situation.

发问者：换言之，你无法回答这个问题，除非你就处在那种状况中。

     Krishnamurti: Obviously. But you see that is why it is very important, I feel, that we should face the fact, face ''what is'', from moment to moment, not theorize about it. If someone is ill, desperately ill with cancer, or has become completely senile - what is the most intelligent thing to do, not for a mere observer like me, but for the doctor, the wife or the daughter?

克：显然如此。但你知道那就是为何这个问题很重要，我觉得，我们应该面对事实，面对“实际状况”，一刻接着一刻地，而不是将它理论化。如果某人病了，绝望地得了癌症，或者已经彻底衰老——什么才是最智慧的行动？这并不是仅仅像我这样的旁观者需要回答的问题，它同样也需要医生、妻子和女儿来面对。

     Questioner: One cannot really answer that, because it is a problem for another human being.

发问者：别人并不能真正回答这个问题，因为这个问题是属于另一个人的。

     Krishnamurti: That's just it, that is just what I am saying.

克：正是如此，这就是我所说的。

     Questioner: And one hasn't the right, it would seem to me, to decide about the life or death of another human being.

发问者：并且别人并没有权力，这其中也包括我，来决定另一个人的生死。

     Krishnamurti: But we do. All the tyrannies do. And tradition does; tradition says you must live this way, you mustn't live that way.

克：但我们却这么做了。所有的暴政都这么做了。传统也这么做；传统总是告诉你们必须如此生活，你们不能那样生活。

     Questioner: And it is also becoming a tradition to keep people alive beyond the point where nature would have given in. Through medical skill people are kept alive - well, it's hard to define what is a natural condition - but it seems most unnatural to survive for as long as many people do today. But that is a different question.

发问者：还有当依循自然规律应该放弃生命时，使人继续活下去也成为了一项传统。通过医学技术让人们继续存活下去——当然，也很难定义什么是自然状态——但现在很多人活了那么久，这看起来似乎也极其不自然。但那是另外一个问题。

     Krishnamurti: Yes, an entirely different question. The real question is, will intelligence allow suicide - even though doctors have said one has an incurable disease? One cannot possibly tell another what to do in this matter. It is for the human being who has the incurable disease to act according to his intelligence. If he is at all intelligent - which means that he has lived a life in which there has been love, care, sensitivity and gentleness - then such a person, at the moment when it arises, will act according to the intelligence which has operated in the past.

克：是的，这是个完全不同的问题。真正的问题是，智慧会允许自杀存在吗——尽管医生说某人得了不治之症？在这件事情上，一个人并不能告诉另一个人该如何做。这需要得了不治之症的当事人自己依智慧去处理。如果他确实是智慧的——这意味着他生活中充满了爱、关怀、敏感以及温柔——那么这样的人，在事情发生的时候，将会根据过去一直运作着的智慧来行动。

     Questioner: Then this whole conversation is in a way meaningless because that is what would have happened anyway - because people would inevitably act according to what has happened in the past. They will either blow their brains out or sit and suffer until they die, or something in between.

发问者：那么这整个谈话从某种意义上说就毫无价值，因为无论怎样，事情还是会照样发生——因为人们必然会根据过去的习性来行动。他们要么用枪把自己脑袋打开花，要么受着苦坐等死亡，要么用个折中的办法。

     Krishnamurti: No, it hasn't been meaningless. Listen to this; we have discovered several things - primarily that to live with intelligence is the most important thing. To live a way of life which is supremely intelligent demands an extraordinary alertness of mind and body, and we've destroyed the alertness of the body by unnatural ways of living. We are also destroying the mind, the brain, through conflict, through constant repression, constant explosion and violence. So if one lives a way of life that is a negation of all this, then that life, that intelligence, when confronted with incurable disease will act in the moment rightly.

克：不，这并非没有意义。听着，我们已经发现了几件事情——首先智慧地生活是最重要的事情。过一种极其智慧的生活，需要对心智和身体都有一种非凡的敏锐，而我们已经用不自然的生活方式，破坏了这种身体的敏锐。我们也正在通过冲突，通过不断的压抑，不断的爆发和暴力，破坏我们的心智和头脑。所以如果一个人能否定这一切，以一种截然不同的方式生活，那么在面对不治之症时，那生活，那智慧，将会马上恰当地运作起来。

     Questioner: I see that I have asked you a question about suicide and have been given an answer on how to live rightly.

发问者：我发现我问了你一个关于自杀的问题，但得到的是一个如何正确生存的答案。

     Krishnamurti: It is the only way. A man jumping over the bridge doesn't ask, ''Shall I commit suicide? '' He is doing it; it is finished. Whereas we, sitting in a safe house or in a laboratory, asking whether a man should or should not commit suicide, has no meaning.

克：这是唯一的出路。当一个人从桥上跳下时他不会问：“我应该自杀吗？”他这么做了；一切都结束了。而我们，坐在安全的房子里或实验室里，问一个人应该还是不应该自杀，这毫无意义。

     Questioner: So it is a question one cannot ask.

发问者：所以不能问这个问题。

     Krishnamurti: No, it must be asked - whether one should or should not commit suicide. It must be asked, but find out what is behind the question, what is prompting the questioner, what is making him want to commit suicide. We know a man who has never committed suicide, although he is always threatening to do so, because he is completely lazy. He doesn't want to do a thing, he wants everybody to support him; such a man has already committed suicide. The man who is obstinate, suspicious, greedy for power and position, has also inwardly committed suicide. He lives behind a wall of images. So any man who lives with an image of himself, of his environment, his ecology, his political power or religion, is already finished.

克：不，必须问这个问题——人应该还是不应该自杀。必须要问，但是要发现问题背后是什么，是什么促使提问者问了这个问题，是什么使他想自杀。我们认识一个人，尽管他一直威胁说要自杀，但是却从来不曾实施过，因为他太懒了。他一件事情都不想做，他只想让所有的人支持他；这样的人已经自杀了。固执的、多疑的、贪求权利和地位的人，也已经在内心中自杀了。他活在意象之墙的背后。所以，任何活在他自己、他的环境、他的领地、他的政治权力和信仰所构筑的意象里的人，已经死了。

     Questioner: It would seem to me that what you are saying is that any life that is not lived directly...

发问者：在我看来你所说的是指，任何没有直接地生活着的生活...

     Krishnamurti: Directly and intelligently.

克：直接地以及智慧地。

     Questioner: Outside the shadows of images, of conditioning, of thinking.... Unless one lives that way, one's life is a kind of low-key existence.

发问者：远离意象、局限、思想阴影地生活...除非一个人如此生活，否则他的生命就是一种压抑的存在。

     Krishnamurti: Of course it is. Look at most people; they are living behind a wall - the wall of their knowledge, their desires, their ambitious drives. They are already in a state of neurosis and that neurosis gives them a certain security, which is the security of suicide.

克：当然如此。看看大多数的人们，他们生活在一堵墙的背后——那是他们的知识、欲望、野心驱使的围墙。他们已然生活在神经质的状态下，这种神经症给他们某种安全感，一种自杀式的安全感。

     Questioner: The security of suicide!

发问者：自杀式的安全感！

     Krishnamurti: Like a singer, for example; to him the voice is the greatest security, and when that fails he is ready to commit suicide. What is really exciting and true is to find out for oneself a way of life that is highly sensitive and supremely intelligent; and this is not possible if there is fear, anxiety, greed, envy, the building of images or the living in religious isolation. That isolation is what all religions have supplied: the believer is definitely on the threshold of suicide. Because he has put all his faith in a belief, when that belief is questioned he is afraid and is ready to take on another belief, another image, commit another religious suicide. So, can a man live without any image, without any pattern, without any time-sense? I don't mean living in such a way as not to care what happens tomorrow or what happened yesterday, that is not living. There are those who say, ''Take the present and make the best of it"; that is also an act of despair. Really one should not ask whether or not it is right to commit suicide; one should ask what brings about the state of mind that has no hope - though hope is the wrong word because hope implies a future; one should ask rather, how does a life come about that is without time? To live without time is really to have this sense of great love, because love is not of time, love is not something that was or will be; to explore this and live with it is the real question. Whether to commit suicide or not is the question of a man who is already partially dead. Hope is the most dreadful thing. Wasn't it Dante who said, ''Leave hope behind when you enter the Inferno''? To him, paradise was hope, that's horrible.

克：举个例子，就像一个歌手；对他来说，嗓音是最大的安全，当失去嗓音他就想去自杀。真正激动人心和真实的事情是，自己去发现一种高度敏感和极其智慧的生活方式；可一旦有恐惧、焦虑、贪婪、嫉妒，建立意象或是生活在宗教孤立中，就不可能发现智慧的生活方式。这种孤立是所有宗教都在提供的：信仰者无疑活在自杀的阴影中。因为他把自己所有的信心投入他的信仰中，当这信仰遭到质疑时，他会害怕并准备接受另一种信仰，另一种意象，进行另一种宗教自杀。所以，一个人能不能没有意象，没有模式，没有时间感地生活？我不是指一种对于昨天和明天发生的事漠不关心的生活，那样不是生活。有些人说，“把握现在，好好珍惜”，那同样是一种绝望的行为。其实我们不该问自杀是对还是错；而应该问是什么带来了一种无望的心态——尽管希望是个错误的词，因为它暗含着未来；我们应该问，如何才能带来一种没有时间的生活？没有时间的生活，就是真正拥有这伟大的爱的感觉，因为爱没有时间，爱不是过去如何和将来如何；探索这点并如此生活，才是真正的问题。是否应该自杀，是已经部分死亡的人才会提出的问题。而希望是最糟糕的事情。但丁不是曾说，“当进入地狱时，请把希望留在身后”？对他来说，天堂曾是希望，那太可怕了。

     Questioner: Yes, hope is its own inferno.

发问者：是的，希望就是它自身的地狱。


（注：在风不停留和金文文翻译的基础上修改。在此感谢两位的辛勤劳动。两位译的都相当好。）