关系就是生活的艺术
Questioner: If I may ask you, what do you consider to be one of the most important things in life? I have thought about this matter considerably and there are so many things in life that all seem important. I would like to ask you this question in all seriousness.
提问者：如果可以的话，我想问一个非常严肃的问题，你认为生活中最重要的东西是什么？这个问题我已经想了很久，生活中有那么多的事情看上去都很重要。
Krishnamurti: Perhaps it is the art of living. We are using the word art in its widest sense.As life is so complex, it is always difficult and confusing to pick one aspect and say it is the most important. The very choice, the differentiating quality, if I may point out, leads to further confusion. If you say this is the most important, then you relegate the other facts of life to a secondary position. Either we take the whole movement of life as one, which becomes extremely difficult for most people, or we take one fundamental aspect in which all the others may be included. If you agree to this, then we can proceed with our dialogue.
克：也许就是生活的艺术。我们是在最广泛的意义上使用艺术这个词的。因为生活是如此复杂，挑出一个方面说它最重要总是困难的，并且有误导性。如果我可以指出的话，正是这种选择性和区别性导致了进一步的困惑。如果你说这个是最重要的，那么你就把生活中其他的事实降低到次要的位置了。要么我们把生活的全部活动看成一个整体，这对大多数人来说极为困难，要么我们选择一个可以包括其它一切的基本的方面。如果你同意这样，那么我们可以继续我们的对话。
Questioner: Do you mean to say that one aspect may cover the whole field of life? Is that possible?
Krishnamurti: I It is possible. Let us go into it very slowly and hesitantly. First of all the two of us must investigate and not immediately come to some conclusion which is generally rather superficial. We are exploring together one facet of life and in the very understanding of it we may cover the whole field of life. To investigate we must be free of our prejudices, personal experiences, and predetermined conclusions. Like a good scientist we must have a mind unclouded by knowledge that we have already accumulated. We must come to it afresh and this is one of the necessities in exploration, the exploration not of an idea or series of philosophic concepts but of our own minds without any reaction to what is being observed. This is absolutely necessary; otherwise your own investigation is coloured by your own fears, hopes and pleasures.
提问者：你的意思是说一个方面可以覆盖生活的全部领域？这可能吗？
克：这是可能的。让我们非常缓慢和谨慎地进入这个问题。首先，我们两个人必须去研究，而不是立即得出某个结论，那通常是相当肤浅的。我们一起探索生活的一个方面，在对它的理解中，我们也许会涉及生活的全部领域。要研究，我们就必须摆脱我们的偏见、个人经验和预设的结论。就像一个优秀的科学家，我们必须拥有一颗不被我们累积的知识所蒙蔽的心，我们必须重新接近它，对正在观察的对象没有任何的反应。在这种探索中，这是必要的条件之一。它不是对一个想法或一系列哲学观念，而是对我们自己内心的探索。这些是绝对必要的，否则我们的研究就被自己的恐惧、希望和快乐染上了色彩。
Questioner: Aren't you asking too much? Is it possible to have such a mind?
Krishnamurti: The very urge to investigate and the intensity of it frees the mind from its colouring. As we said, one of the most important things is the art of living. Is there a way of living our daily life that is entirely different from what it normally is? We all know the usual. Is there a way of living without any control, without any conflict, without a disciplinary conformity? How do I find out? I can only find out when my whole mind is facing exactly what is happening now. This means I can only find out what it means to live without conflict, when what is happening now can be observed. This observation is not an intellectual or emotional affair but the acute, clear, sharp perception in which there is no duality. There is only the actual and nothing else.
提问者：你的要求太过分了吧？拥有这样一颗心是可能的吗？
克：正是对研究的强烈愿望让心从它的色彩中摆脱出来。我们说过，最重要的事情之一就是生活的艺术。有没有一种完全不同的生活方式？我们都知道通常的方式。存不存在一种生活方式，没有任何控制、冲突和纪律导致的顺从？我怎么去发现它？只有当我全心全意面对现在正在发生的事情时，我才能发现它。这意味着，只有现在正在发生的事情被观察的时候，我才能发现没有冲突的生活意味着什么。这种观察不是理智或感情上的事情，而是深刻、清晰而敏锐的感知，其中没有二元性。只有那真实的存在，别无其他。
Questioner: What do you mean by duality in this instance?
Krishnamurti: That there is no opposition or contradiction in what is going on. Duality arises only when there is an escape from what is. This escape creates the opposite and so conflict arises. There is only the actual and nothing else.
提问者：你这里所说的二元性是什么意思？
克：意思是说，正在发生的事情当中没有对立面或矛盾。只有在逃避事实的时候，二元性才会出现。这种逃避制造了对立，于是冲突就产生了。只有真实存在，没有别的了。
Questioner: Are you saying that when something which is happening now is perceived, the mind must not come in with associations and reactions?
Krishnamurti: Yes, that is what we mean. The associations and reactions to what is happening is the conditioning of the mind. This conditioning prevents the observation of what is taking place now. What is taking place now is free of time. Time is the evolution of our conditioning. It is man's inheritance, the burden that has no beginning. When there is this passionate observation of what is going on, that which is being observed dissolves into nothingness. The observation of the anger that is taking place now reveals the whole nature and structure of violence. This insight is the ending of all violence.It is not replaced by anything else and therein lies our difficulty. Our whole desire and urge is to find a definite end. In that end there is a sense of illusory security.
提问者：你是说，当现在正在发生的事情被感知时，这颗心一定不要带着联想和反应？
克：对，就是这个意思。对正在发生的事情的联想和反应是内心的制约。这种制约妨碍了对现在正在发生的事情的观察。正在发生的东西是没有时间的。时间是我们制约的进化，它是人类的遗传，那个没有起点的重负。在热切观察实际发生的事情时，被观察对象就会化为空无。对正在发生的愤怒的观察会显示出暴力的全部本质和结构，这个洞见就是所有暴力的终结。暴力没有被任何东西取代，而这正是我们的困难所在，因为我们全部的欲望与冲动就是找到一个确定的结果。那个结果当中有一种虚幻的安全感。
Questioner: There is a difficulty for many of us in the observation of anger because emotions and reactions seem inextricably part of that anger. One doesn't feel anger without associations, content.
Krishnamurti: Anger has many stories behind it. It isn't just a solitary event. It has, as you pointed out,a great many associations. These very associations, with their emotions, prevent the actual observation. With anger the content is the anger. The anger is the content; they are not two separate things. The content is the conditioning. In the passionate observation of what is actually going on - that is, the activities of the conditioning - the nature and structure of the conditioning are dissolved.
提问者：对我们很多人来说，观察愤怒是困难的，因为情绪和反应似乎是愤怒不可分割的一部分。没有联想和内容，你是不会感到愤怒的。
克：愤怒背后有很多东西，它不是一个孤立的事件。就像你指出的，其中有很多联想。正是这些联想以及它们的情绪妨碍了实际的观察。在愤怒之中，内容就是愤怒，愤怒就是内容，它们不是两个分开的东西。内容就是制约。在对正在实际发生的事情——也就是制约的活动——的热切观察中，制约的本质和结构就溶化了。
Questioner: Are you saying that when an event is taking place there is the immediate, racing current of associations in the mind? And if one instantly sees this starting to happen, that observation instantly stops it and it is gone? Is this what you mean?
Krishnamurti: Yes. It is really simple, so simple that you miss its very simplicity and so its subtlety. What we are saying is that whatever is happening - when you are walking, talking, "meditating" - the event that is taking place is to be observed. When the mind wanders, the very observation of it ends its chatter. So there is no distraction whatsoever at any time.
提问者：你的意思是说，当一个事件发生时，心中就会有立即的、飞驰的联想之流？如果一个人立即看到它是如何开始的，观察立即就终止了它，它就消失了？你是这个意思吗？
克：是的，这真的是很简单的，那么的简单以至于你错过了它的简单和微妙。我们要说的是，不管正在发生什么——在你走路的时候，说话的时候，“冥想”的时候——那个正在发生的事情都需要被观察。心在游荡的时候，正是对它的观察结束了它的喋喋不休。所以任何时候都不存在分心的事。
Questioner: it seems as if you are saying that the content of thought essentially has no meaning in the art of living.
Krishnamurti: Yes. Remembrance has no place in the art of living. Relationship is the art of living. If there is remembrance in relationship, it is not relationship. Relationship is between human beings, not their memories. It is these memories that divide and so there is contention, the opposition of the you and the me. So thought, which is remembrance, has no place whatsoever in relationship. This is the art of living.
Relationship is to all things - to nature, the birds, the rocks, to everything around us and above us - to the clouds, the stars and to the blue sky. All existence is relationship. Without it you cannot live. Because we have corrupted relationship we live in a society that is degenerating.
The art of living can come into being only when thought does not contaminate love.
In the schools can the teacher be wholly committed to this art?
提问者：你似乎是在说，思想的内容在生活的艺术中是根本没有意义的。
克：是的。在生活的艺术中，记忆是没有位置的。关系就是生活的艺术。如果关系中有记忆，它就不是关系。关系存在于人和人之间，而不是他们的记忆之间。正是这些记忆导致了分别，于是就有了争执，有了“你”和“我”的对立。因此思想，即记忆，在关系之中没有任何位置。这就是生活的艺术。
关系是指和一切事物的——和大自然、鸟儿、石头，和我们周围及头顶上的每件东西——云朵、星辰、蓝天。所有的存在都是关系。没有关系你无法生活。因为我们已经使关系腐化了，我们生活在一个正在衰退的社会中。只有在思想不染污爱的时候，生活的艺术才会存在。在这些学校里，教师能完全投入到这种艺术中去吗？
绿草园翻译工作室 |
发表于 2010-8-9 21:19
|