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克与博姆《人类的未来》对话二中的一段,讲到universal mind

   JK: Man has always been in trouble, in turmoil, in fear. And facing all the confusion of the world, can there be a solution to all this?

     DB: That comes back to the question I would like to repeat. It seems there are a few people who are talking about it, and think perhaps they know, or perhaps they meditate, and so on. But how is that going to affect this vast current of mankind?

     JK: Probably very little. But why will it affect this? It might, or it might not. But then one puts that question: what is the use of it?


     DB: Yes, that's the point. I think there is an instinctive feeling that makes one put the question.

     JK: But I think that is the wrong question.

     DB: You see, the first instinct is to say, 'What can we do to stop this tremendous catastrophe'?


     JK: Yes. But if each one of us, whoever listens, sees the truth that thought, in its activity both externally and inwardly, has created a terrible mess, great suffering, then one must inevitably ask is there an ending to all this? If thought cannot end it, what will?

     DB: Yes.

     JK: What is the new instrument that will put an end to all this misery? You see, there is a new instrument which is the mind, which is intelligence. But the difficulty is also that people won't listen to all this. Both the scientists and the ordinary laymen like us, have come to definite conclusions, and they won't listen.

     DB: Yes, well, that is what I had in mind when I said that a few people don't seem to have much effect.

     JK: Of course. I think, after all, few people have changed the world, whether good or bad - but that is not the point. Hitler; and also the communists have changed it, but they have gone to the same pattern again. Physical revolution has never psychologically changed the human state.

     DB: Do you think it is possible that a certain number of brains coming in contact with mind in this way will be able to have an effect on mankind, which is beyond just the immediate, obvious effect of their communication?

     JK: Yes, that's right. But how do you convey this subtle and very complex issue to a person who is steeped in tradition, who is conditioned, and won't even take time to listen, to consider?

     DB: Well, that is the question. You see, you could say that this conditioning cannot be absolute; cannot be an absolute block, or else there would be no way out at all. But the conditioning may be thought to have some sort of permeability.

     JK: I mean, after all, the Pope won't listen to us, but the Pope has tremendous influence.

     DB: Is it possible that every person has something he can listen to, if it could be found?

     JK: If he has a little patience. Who will listen? The politicians won't listen. The idealists won't listen. The totalitarians won't listen. The deeply steeped religious people won't listen. So perhaps a so-called ignorant person, not highly educated or conditioned in his professional career, or by money, the poor man who says, 'I am suffering, please let's end that.'...

     DB: But he doesn't listen either, you see. He wants to get a job.


     JK: Of course. He says, 'Feed me first', We have been through all this for the last sixty years. The poor man won't listen, the rich man won't listen, the learned won't listen, and the deeply dogmatic religious believers don't listen. So perhaps it is like a wave in the world; it might catch somebody. I think it is a wrong question to say, does it affect?

     DB: Yes, all right. We will say that that brings in time, and that is becoming. It brings in the psyche in the process of becoming again.

     JK: Yes. But if you say... it must affect mankind...

     DB: Are you proposing that it affects mankind through the mind directly, rather than through...


     JK: Yes. It may not show immediately in action.


     DB: You said that the mind is universal, and is not located in our ordinary space, is not separate....

     JK: Yes, but there is a danger in saying this, that the mind is universal. That is what some people say of the mind, and it has become a tradition.


     DB: One can turn it into an idea, of course.

     JK: That is just the danger of it; that is what I am saying.

     DB: Yes. But really the question is, we have to come directly in contact with this to make it real, Right?

     JK: That's it. We can only come into contact with it when the self is not. To put it very simply, when the self is not, there is beauty, silence, space; then that intelligence, which is born of compassion, operates through the brain. It is very simple.
Being nobody, going nowhere.

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